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Greece Is A Sideshow. The Eurozone Has Failed, And Germans Are Its Victims Too

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http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/22/greece-eurozone-germans-single-currency

Nearly every discussion of the Greek fiasco is based on a morality play. Call it Naughty Greece versus Noble Europe. Those troublesome Greeks never belonged in the euro, runs this story. Once inside, they got themselves into a big fat mess – and now it’s up to Europe to sort it all out.

Those are the basics all Wise Folk agree on. Then those on the right go on to say feckless Greece must either accept Europe’s deal or get out of the single currency. Or if more liberal, they hem and haw, cough and splutter, before calling for Europe to show a little more charity to its southern basketcase. Whatever their solution, the Wise Folk agree on the problem: it’s not Brussels that’s at fault, it’s Athens. Oh, those turbulent Greeks! That’s the attitude you smell when the IMF’s Christine Lagarde decries the Syriza government for not being “adult” enough. That’s what licenses the German press to portray Greece’s finance minister, Yanis Varoufakis, as needing “psychiatric help”.

There’s just one problem with this story: like most morality tales, it shatters upon contact with hard reality. Athens is merely the worst outbreak of a much bigger disease within the euro project. Because the single currency isn’t working for ordinary Europeans, from the Ruhr valley to Rome.

On saying this, I don’t close my eyes to the endemic corruption and tax-dodging in Greece (nor indeed, does the outsiders’ movement Syriza, which came to power campaigning against just these vices). Nor am I about to don Farage-ist chalkstripes. My charge is much simpler: the euro project is not only failing to deliver on the promises of its originators, it’s doing the exact opposite – by eroding the living standards of ordinary Europeans. And as we’ll see, that’s true even for those living in the continent’s number one economy, Germany.

First, let’s remind ourselves of the noble pledges made for the euro project. Let’s play the grainy footage of Germany’s Helmut Schmidt and France’s Giscard d’Estaing, as they lay the foundations for Europe’s grand unifier. Most of all, let’s remind ourselves of what the true believers felt. Take this from Oskar Lafontaine, Germany’s minister of finance, on the very eve of the launch of the euro. He talked of “the vision of a united Europe, to be reached through the gradual convergence of living standards, the deepening of democracy, and the flowering of a truly European culture”.

We could quote a thousand other such stanzas of euro-poetry, but that single line from Lafontaine shows how far the single-currency project has fallen. Instead of raising living standards across Europe, monetary union is pushing them downwards. Rather than deepening democracy, it is undermining it. As for “a truly European culture”, when German journalists accuse Greek ministers of “psychosis”, that mythic agora of nations is a long way off.

The Euro project was a huge vanity project by the French/Germans whose leaders wanted a place in history uniting Europe, instead it's likely to lead to division and hatred because it was rushed and the people where never really asked just implemented.

Edited by interestrateripoff

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What they find is that German workers have barely seen wages rise for the 14-year stretch.

That in itself is not a bad thing, when you have steady prices or even lower prices (rents and house prices)

Although it seems they've succumbed a bit to the VI wanting hpi galore and huge debt and massive spending). Some HPCers want wage inflation because they want more HPI. That's a fact.

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Also make HPI chasing your quest in Germany, and forgive others their debts. :rolleyes:

Let the wage inflation and hyper HPI flow. :rolleyes:

Ben Attacks Germany’s Trade Surplus
Apr 03 2015

Dear Germany will you stop producing higher quality goods and produce some expensive shit, thanks. Signed talking head for pretty much eveything that is wrong modern finance and economics in the US. A paid bullshitter and liar, meddler, ponzi finacier and manipulator of markets and a frontman bitch for whichever politico is in power..

Err the whole point of doing anything productive is doing it better than your competition and earn the benefit accordingly, which means positive trade flows. ******** economics is the oppostie of this process which is what Ben Bunkum is proposing. IF eveybody in the world follow his model then banks control all as all would be in debt. That is what this shyster wants and also not for his and his controller's mismanagement being found out, lest his countrymen become somewhat upset at being sold down the river.

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That in itself is not a bad thing, when you have steady prices or even lower prices (rents and house prices)

Not only it's not a bad thing, it's actually the most natural course of things in an economy with increasing productivity and stable money supply. The average standard of living of the working class has increased most in this type of environment, i.e. the one with least central planner interventions CBs included.

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The Euro project was a huge vanity project by the French/Germans whose leaders wanted a place in history uniting Europe, instead it's likely to lead to division and hatred because it was rushed and the people where never really asked just implemented.

....says it all, and they call it democracy.....maybe they thought we were all too thick to understand?

...like most things, it is not what they tell you it is what they don't tell you, and hope will never find out. ;)

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Rabidly socialist article but a good read and I completely agree with the socialist solution. Totally with you on European integration being a rushed, botched and over-idealistic approach but that's more a fault of the lack of understanding about how to design such large systems - I don't think complex social and economic systems scale well under centralised democracy due to the need for localised solutions that contradict central policy. It's not even a question of morality of countries ... it's about the owners of capital having excessive influence on central policy and using it to accumulate assets and farm the plebs which then results in consumer deflation and further asset price growth. Hardly a leap of faith - that has been noticed as the mechanism of economic vandalism that dominates and destroys most great civilizations.

I actually wrote down why I think this and it's fairly long and involved and could be accused of being off topic/conjecture. I do believe the principles at least as I've not had to change my economic beliefs to explain the observable world since the late 90s and I ran money and used my beliefs to successfully predict and risk manage futures markets from 07-12 (I quit as soon as possible as it's immoral with that belief system if you're good at it). The vested interests and excess capital in assets need to be removed .. they are distorting prices to the point of creating huge free money trades for the select few which changes prices in their favour and winds up imbalances through price. It's like communism turned out .. but without any of the good bits.

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Guest UK Debt Slave

....says it all, and they call it democracy.....maybe they thought we were all too thick to understand?

...like most things, it is not what they tell you it is what they don't tell you, and hope will never find out. ;)

It's a total sham. It's like multiculturalism and mass immigration. They never really consulted the people about their intentions. They just went ahead and imported millions of people into the UK.

It's "Democracy for idiots"

They rely totally on:

1. Ignorance

2. Apathy

3. Acquiescence

Edited by UK Debt Slave

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For me it is not so much the movement of people that is the problem.....more the slow moving to a full economic monetary and fiscal federal state ruled by people not elected.

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I was all going fine until they got the bankers involved.

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Guest UK Debt Slave

I was all going fine until they got the bankers involved.

The bankers were always involved, right from the very beginning of the European project

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The bankers were always involved, right from the very beginning of the European project

Nah, they didnt have a ECB to toy with, nor control over the Euro economy...before the Euro, we had free trade zones...that was all that was needed.

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Has anyone noticed that everything that is wrong with greece is wrong with the UK ?

We've had q.e. money printing backdoor theft by the bankers...to keep their system going.

It's time people woke up to this.

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The bankers were always involved, right from the very beginning of the European project

And still. Juncker was voted European Banker of the Year in 2008. Lagarde is Managing Director and Chairman of the IMF.

The free market deregulation/globalisation agenda is strong with them both.

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Guest UK Debt Slave

And still. Juncker was voted European Banker of the Year in 2008. Lagarde is Managing Director and Chairman of the IMF.

The free market deregulation/globalisation agenda is strong with them both.

Bankers aren't interested in free markets

Central banks are by their very nature monopolist and they centralize power over markets, by setting the base lending rate, for example.

In a genuine a free market, banks would undertake their own risk assessments and price the risks associated with lending accordingly.

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And still. Juncker was voted European Banker of the Year in 2008. Lagarde is Managing Director and Chairman of the IMF.

The free market deregulation/globalisation agenda is strong with them both.

And for that reason alone, I'd love to see a Greek default. Sort of "upset the applecart" and see the reaction of the bankers and their shills as billions are wiped off their paper fortunes. At the end of the day , the people of the bottom will recover...only a question of time. What they never had, they'll never miss. The 1% on the other hand....

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Bankers aren't interested in free markets

Central banks are by their very nature monopolist and they centralize power over markets, by setting the base lending rate, for example.

In a genuine a free market, banks would undertake their own risk assessments and price the risks associated with lending accordingly.

So a cartel of bankers rigging the rate would be better?

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Guest UK Debt Slave

And for that reason alone, I'd love to see a Greek default. Sort of "upset the applecart" and see the reaction of the bankers and their shills as billions are wiped off their paper fortunes. At the end of the day , the people of the bottom will recover...only a question of time. What they never had, they'll never miss. The 1% on the other hand....

They will always find the means to underwrite their losses by robbing the taxpayers

2007-2008 for example.

They refloated the banking system by stealing the future earnings and wealth of the people and this theft is still continuing to this day. People are still having their pension money stolen by governments and the banks still pay depositors no interest on their savings

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Guest UK Debt Slave

So a cartel of bankers rigging the rate would be better?

Well, that's a perfectly valid observation!

The supermarkets do it with food!

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All seems sort of quaint now.... vs €1.2 Trillion money printing operation in effect.

This from 1992 ish?

And as I remember it European Bank setting up a new HQ at the moment. Yes. https://www.ecb.europa.eu/ecb/premises/html/index.en.html

Although spare me the borrower victims. The doctrine is often stated as "those seeking equity must come with clean hands". [A dirty dog will not have justice by the court.]

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Guest UK Debt Slave

2dul5sh.jpg

Love the last line

"You'll never guess. Norman Lamont is on the board of the bank"

Lamont seems to crop up all over the place in the world of high finance

He was also a Director of Rothschild Asset Management and once employed by NM Rothschild investment bank

I've always suspected that he was a co-conspirator in the ERM fiasco and the sale of UK treasury gold to prop up sterling when Soros attempted to break our currency.

He's also Scottish, which ties in very nicely with the stranglehold the Scottish seem to hold over British politics.

Edited by UK Debt Slave

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Love the last line

"You'll never guess. Norman Lamont is on the board of the bank"

Lamont seems to crop up all over the place in the world of high finance

He was also a Director of Rothschild Asset Management and once employed by NM Rothschild investment bank

I've always suspected that he was a co-conspirator in the ERM fiasco and the sale of UK treasury gold to prop up sterling when Soros attempted to break our currency.

He's also Scottish, which ties in very nicely with the stranglehold the Scottish have always held over British politics.

He does get around. Didn't know he was Scottish. He was opening a new library into boom and bust in Scotland a while back - financial mistakes.

Edinburgh home to world’s first ‘Mistake Library’

Tuesday 29 April 2014

It wasn’t so much a Black Wednesday as a Jolly Tuesday last night when Norman Lamont opened Edinburgh’s newest library – the Library of Mistakes – which records a litany of financial disasters.

More than 2,000 volumes telling tales of mismanagement, from the Parable of the Talents through the Great Depression of the 1930s to the 2008 credit crunch, have been collected.

in full http://www.scotsman.com/news/odd/edinburgh-home-to-world-s-first-mistake-library-1-3392885

Also in 2nd article looks like he was the one in charge of an inquiry to spending at the same European Bank arm. "Ordered a report into the banks activities'. On the board and ordering a report into outrage at spending lol.

Lamont talks a good game. Lamont gave me hope when Carney arrived with the statement to the press below, but it was even more cuddles for debtors and welcoming of new debtors.

The hard truth, he added, was that British households had borrowed too much during the years before the credit crisis and now had to pay it off.

He said: "QE is an attempt to avoid the necessary adjustment. "(Mark Carney's) role is not to find a monetary silver bullet but to deliver some hard message that a debt work out is exactly that - tough, unremitting, but the only way to get the economy back into better shape."

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Has anyone noticed that everything that is wrong with greece is wrong with the UK ?

We've had q.e. money printing backdoor theft by the bankers...to keep their system going.

It's time people woke up to this.

See also the US and Japan.

But it must be ok here, a terrace house can cost around a million, so we must have a great economy. Just don't mention hb or tax credit.

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The primary objective of the EU institutions is to subvert national democratic rule and replace it with their own centralized bureaucracy- because this is the only way they can survive.

What is being played out in the 'Greek' crisis is a war for control- who rules in Greece is the question- is it Tsipras? or is it the EU apparatchiks and their institutional allies? Thus the need to humiliate the Greeks- a demonstration of power is needed lest the upstart plebs of Italy or Spain get the dangerous idea that they should be in control of their own destiny.

In it's need to defend it's own existence the EU has revealed itself to be exactly what is claimed it was not- a non democratic quasi dictatorship with little or no moral restraint or democratic legitimacy.

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