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House Prices And Mental Health

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I searched the forums for 'depression' and 'mental health' and couldn't see any dedicated topics on this. I was surprised by this. Perhaps I missed them.

I'm fairly sure there must be a link between high house prices and increased (?) rates of depression. i.e. bad for renters and good for home owners.

The studies I came across (during an admittedly quick google) seem just to deal with the (obvious) link between housing quality and mental health i.e. if you live in a crap hole your mental health will suffer.

But the following study deals specifically with house prices (apologies if this has already been posted):

http://www.sheffield.ac.uk/economics/research/serps/articles/2012_014

I was surprised by the conclusion:

"This paper examines whether house prices are linked to mental health outcomes, and whether any association is explained by a wealth mechanism, area amenities or economic conditions. These alternative explanations have contrasting implications for the effect of house prices on the mental well-being of homeowners and renters. For example, according to a wealth mechanism, unexpected increases in house prices leave homeowners materially better off, which should make them feel 17 better whereas the opposite is true for renters, whose economic situation deteriorates. On the other hand, improvements in area amenities and economic conditions may drive both house prices and well-being, with benefits accruing to homeowners and renters alike.

I document a positive correlation between house prices and the well-being of both homeowners and renters, which is not consistent with a wealth mechanism. This association remains after controlling for proxies of area amenities and current economic conditions. Further analysis also indicates that parents of young children are not more sensitive to house price fluctuations, as might be expected if house prices capture the value of unmeasured area amenities, such as school quality or crime. A remaining explanation is that house prices project signals about longer term economic prospects that in turn affect anxiety levels. Consistent with this notion, I present evidence that house prices matter more to individuals exhibiting a greater attachment to an area, for whom signals about future economic prospects are likely to bear more relevance."

Edited by growlers

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It's a very interesting topic. So tl;dr - frankly, ridiculous house prices have done me a favour.

Ridiculous house prices compared to salaries have caused me to take some decisions in life that are - by any stretch - completely out of the ordinary. Some people would question what I've done to be the actions of a madman.

I've opted out of (almost) every form of classic consumption, workaholic behaviour (my full time equiv salary would be approx double national average, but there's absolutely no point in my earning that vs part time work), and my life is much better because of it. I have also developed a level of mental resilience by abstaining from going down the path of normality which I think will pay dividends later in life.

The *almost* part of consumption is very important. There are things I spend money on in amounts which others would be horrified by. Some of them are toys. Some of them are experiences. But almost all of them make me a more rounded, creative person.

Edited by Frugal Git

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the mortgage isnt called a ball and chain for nothing.

recently, its more like a landmine on a chain....for many, they simply try and forget about its potential for detonation and ignore it, concentrating on paying the monthly fee as best they can.

And little in the way of inflation to releive its weight, and that growing family, just not an option for some.

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I think a mortgage holder would be more depressed and full of anxiety contantly thinking about the level of debt they owe to the bank and the feeling of being hooked into debt slavery for 30 years of their life when the realisation hits.

Also the anxiety around mortgage renewal time wondering if their repayments / interest rate will increase and also weather a "liar loan" will be exposed when the MMR calcs are run during the re-mortgage application interview.

Interest only types panicing that they will be moved onto repayment or have to demonstrate that performing investment vehicle that they said they had.

And the denial that interest rates will ever rise from 0.5%

Edited by workingpoor

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Very true of many on here, Git. But enough like us to affect general statistics across the population?

Well, its very doubtful that a high proportion of people *currently* over 35 would think like us. However, I do think there is a change going on with younger people - especially the *smart* ones. They can see and sense intuitively that they have been sold a lie.

Out of my peer group, the most intelligent people - academically and creatively, are the biggest f**k ups in a conventional sense when compared to their peers. Its quite a wonderful thing to observe. None are in any way socially inept either - its just i think they think and analyse more.

It seems that trait is quite dangerous to your well being if you actually want a benign, 'normal' life.

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It's a very interesting topic. So tl;dr - frankly, ridiculous house prices have done me a favour.

Ridiculous house prices compared to salaries have caused me to take some decisions in life that are - by any stretch - completely out of the ordinary. Some people would question what I've done to be the actions of a madman.

I've opted out of (almost) every form of classic consumption, workaholic behaviour (my full time equiv salary would be approx double national average, but there's absolutely no point in my earning that vs part time work), and my life is much better because of it. I have also developed a level of mental resilience by abstaining from going down the path of normality which I think will pay dividends later in life.

The *almost* part of consumption is very important. There are things I spend money on in amounts which others would be horrified by. Some of them are toys. Some of them are experiences. But almost all of them make me a more rounded, creative person.

The ludicrous house prices have meant my wife and I have sat back and watched the madness and been pleased not to partake. People seem so stressed about houses - wanting to upsize, or extend, or wish they'd borrowed more ... it is madness. Yes we've had the odd moment of stress (needing to find a new rental unexpectedly) but otherwise we're happy and financially secure. Our children are well catered for and praised for their personality, happiness and abilities. Would they be happier if we owned the house? Ok the garden would be bigger, and the carpets less tatty .... but otherwise .... I doubt it.

Friends and colleagues do look bemused at the fact we're not stretching ourselves to buy. They suggest using HTB but are baffled when we point out that is just more debt in a different wrapper.

I do actually suffer with my own "issues" of the type referred to in the OP, and yes they would get worse if I was in grotty housing. However they would also get worse if we were living hand to mouth just to pay a mortgage.

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One could suggest that BOTH better mental health AND higher house prices correlate to living in a nice area.

As for causation? Well, if an area is nice, then people will want to live there, and that'll push up house prices.

Looking locally here, there may be a joker in the pack: rents are only very loosely correlated to house prices. A £600/month rent might be a £100k house in a cheaper area of Plymouth, but it might also be a £200k house in some of the rural areas nearby.

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Guest eight

Out of my peer group, the most intelligent people - academically and creatively, are the biggest f**k ups in a conventional sense when compared to their peers. Its quite a wonderful thing to observe. None are in any way socially inept either - its just i think they think and analyse more.

It seems that trait is quite dangerous to your well being if you actually want a benign, 'normal' life.

Yeah, why do you think there's a saying that ignorance is bliss.

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I searched the forums for 'depression' and 'mental health' and couldn't see any dedicated topics on this. I was surprised by this. Perhaps I missed them.

I'm fairly sure there must be a link between high house prices and increased (?) rates of depression. i.e. bad for renters and good for home owners.

High house prices are NOT good for home owners. A few years ago my flat went up 60% between when I bought it and sold it to move up the market.

I calculated that if the prices had stayed the same I would have been £34k better off.

A house price crash would be bad for home owners (if they had bought in the last few years and made a nominal loss) but house price inflation is bad.

Sadly very few people understand this because they are thick.

Edited by iamnumerate

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When the asylums closed and 'care in the community' was established, many of the mentally ill simply ended up on the streets.... A kind of makeshift asylum exists, with the severely mentally ill moving in and out of hostel accommodation and/or ridiculously expensive, squalid insecure private rented accommodation. many are not able to manage their finances properly so are very vulnerable to eviction, particularly given how flakey the DWP can be, a situation which will get even worse when Universal Credit comes in.

As for the effect living in private rented accommodation has on peoples mental health generally, I think it has a very dramatic effect in both an acute sense (lack of security of tenure) and in a chronic sense (that it seems inescapable without inherited wealth or leaving the country).

Of course a lot of this could be rectified it we just built more social housing.

edit: apologies I forgot what the title of the thread was! I think my point is that rising house prices and buy to let are inextricably linked, a kind of perverse situation where you're being priced out of the market forever by the people providing your over priced accommodation, an inequity which is sure to build up a huge amount of resentment among those of us who rent.

Edited by moedo12

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I think a mortgage holder would be more depressed and full of anxiety contantly thinking about the level of debt they owe to the bank and the feeling of being hooked into debt slavery for 30 years of their life when the realisation hits.

Also the anxiety around mortgage renewal time wondering if their repayments / interest rate will increase and also weather a "liar loan" will be exposed when the MMR calcs are run during the re-mortgage application interview.

Interest only types panicing that they will be moved onto repayment or have to demonstrate that performing investment vehicle that they said they had.

And the denial that interest rates will ever rise from 0.5%

It should like that, however, none of the mortgage holders I know of have ever thought that way. According to them if the bank as given them a loan then it is the banks problem not theirs… similar to Greece.

I don't know the reason for their confidence. Probably they think their house will never be repossessed even if they default because the council will step in to help them. BTL may be different though.

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Perhaps we could simplify the equation as : the higher the cost of keeping a roof over your head, the more susceptible you are to mental health problems. In which case, the UK is utterly f**ked.

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The economy is being stifled and held back by HPI . What a burden having a massive mortgage and in the back of your mind worry about technology taking your job. We are coming up to a stability budget and the rabbits pulled out of the hat may not be fluffy

In fact the cuts to come could quite easily be the trigger mechanism for a crash. All that benefit money removed from the economy and probably tax credits could for many mean cant pay the mortgage. I sam suprised it's all held together for as long as it has. I do believe times are about to change soon

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Where has hech123 s post gone?Even though hech was probably a ministry of plenty plant, I do believe in free speach.

Even if it's not what you want to hear, he or she has a right to their opinion.Well maybe not ,I couldnt give my opinions which were far more sound than many on mnet. What a messed up world eh

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Where has hech123 s post gone?Even though hech was probably a ministry of plenty plant, I do believe in free speach.

Even if it's not what you want to hear, he or she has a right to their opinion.Well maybe not ,I couldnt give my opinions which were far more sound than many on mnet. What a messed up world eh

Free speach is all well and good, but outright lies are simply that.

Houses create nothing.

High house prices are good for everyone except maybe 0.1% who cant afford and want to own.

Im sure that more than 0.1% cant afford and want to own. made up stats.

Increases make us rich, we power the economy, the government makes more money

What is the mechanism to benefit from this wealth that powers the economy?...you cant spend a house.

which can pay for lazy part time workers who have opted out of society - tax credits and such, pensioners get rich, landlords get rich, we all get rich and the losers on the bottom of the ladder even share in this by us being able to pay them more benefits.

What taxes are taken when houses go up in value...only at the buy and sell stages with stamp duty...a pifling amount. Again, the pensions and landlords get rich...How?...all house holders could be penniless and starving yet live in properties from flats to mansions...

House prices are only going up from here on in I am afraid. You should jump on the band waggon now and share in the riches

It could be right....but again, where do the riches come from?...they dont come from Mars, they come from the pockets of someone on the planet Earth....and as you cant spend a house, there is a mechanism just busting a gut to help. But the poster unhelpfully explains how. Being a troll, it doesnt care either.

Edited by Bloo Loo

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This is worth bouncing

Considering the state of the housing situation I have done something similar to frugal git, I simply don't see the point in partaking with the happy clappy hpi forever peeps, so I've opted out

I see very few carrots and many sticks. So I spend my days creatively avoiding sticks where possible.

If that's a mental health issue (and I suspect it is) then there you go.

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It's a very interesting topic. So tl;dr - frankly, ridiculous house prices have done me a favour.

Ridiculous house prices compared to salaries have caused me to take some decisions in life that are - by any stretch - completely out of the ordinary. Some people would question what I've done to be the actions of a madman.

I've opted out of (almost) every form of classic consumption, workaholic behaviour (my full time equiv salary would be approx double national average, but there's absolutely no point in my earning that vs part time work), and my life is much better because of it. I have also developed a level of mental resilience by abstaining from going down the path of normality which I think will pay dividends later in life.

The *almost* part of consumption is very important. There are things I spend money on in amounts which others would be horrified by. Some of them are toys. Some of them are experiences. But almost all of them make me a more rounded, creative person.

You live your life as you, once, and all most people can think of, is to service a bloody mortgage for nearly half of their life...How bonkers is that?

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This is worth bouncing

Considering the state of the housing situation I have done something similar to frugal git, I simply don't see the point in partaking with the happy clappy hpi forever peeps, so I've opted out

I see very few carrots and many sticks. So I spend my days creatively avoiding sticks where possible.

If that's a mental health issue (and I suspect it is) then there you go.

Well done. If you mean you've gone part time at work - you will never regret it. I'm six years into it and everything - everything has improved because of it. Health, wealth (paradoxically, the f**k u fund is growing faster than it was in full time work) and happiness - in and out of work.

Re: house prices - I stopped 'worrying' about them on a personal level years ago. They just make me laugh. I remain disgusted by them on a societal level, and more accurately - remained appalled by the HPI cheerleaders and buy to letters. But even they are just lemmings. They aren't worthy of my anger - more pity.

Buy to letters especially - it's the hallmark of someone who has zero creativity or chutzpah. Now when someone tells me they own one, or are thinking of getting an 'investment property' I now just think, as a patronizing person might say - awww bless them!

I cannot imagine a more unimaginative, insipid, bland or mainstream way to 'invest' for your future. You might as well scream *I'm a drone without a single original thought* at me. Because that is the net effect.

I guess I'm an investment hipster. Oh dear.

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You live your life as you, once, and all most people can think of, is to service a bloody mortgage for nearly half of their life...How bonkers is that?

Yes, precisely! And if they have a little extra cash lying around the next thought is 'duhhh...I guess I can get someone else to pay for another one now'.

Society seems filled with people who have never had a single original idea. Staggering.

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Yes, precisely! And if they have a little extra cash lying around the next thought is 'duhhh...I guess I can get someone else to pay for another one now'.

Society seems filled with people who have never had a single original idea. Staggering.

I think its down to brainwashing from an early age, in order to conform, to fit in. Your almost seen as a leaper if you don't go down the uni > job (career - no such thing in my eyes) > mortgage > kids > death route.

There's supposedly a school reunion arranged for my year for November...if I went (which I'm not, especially where I expect that most of them are still twats) I'd hear generic stories of jobs, houses and kids, telling me how much they are "living a dream" whereas in reality they're living a humdrum existence, with a mediocre job, and hateful kids..There'd be no creativity there - very few doing anything outside of this "life course"..except me..

I'd just tell them that I currently live up a tree (with internet access)...

Edited by Dave Beans

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