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Prime Ministers Question Time - Hpi Burden On The Taxpayer.

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Listened to it for the first time in a while today. Harman on Housing - a crumb of comfort.

Interesting - big on the house price & ownership agenda and she made the link back to Housing Benefit. Hallelujah. I don't know if any politicians have been arguing this before but am personally chuffed as in hpi (pub, family etc) debates up to the election, the penny was very slow to drop.

Cameron kept on repeating 'why won't you support RTB' - which, for me a least, was rather unfortunate. If the Government have no answer to the 'affordable housing crisis' other than to make it worse then hopefully the opposition will keep on hammering away at this topic over the next 5 years.

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Its OK. Burnham is getting ready.

The man of the people is refusing his £7K wage rise, must have made enough renting out his London flat and picking up £17K off the taxpayer for one round the corner.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/andy-burnham-claims-rent-for-flat-moments-away-from-another-he-already-owns-10273311.html

The Tory party knew in opposition, they're all rats and any of you who vote LIBLABCON deserve the status quo.

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If Harman is the best the Labour party can manage, they are screwed.

I wouldn't worry too much about who the leader is at this stage.

Better to focus on what the next 5 years is going to be. Yes we will all be screwed if we don't have a decent opposition, but then understanding what the problems are in itself is where a decent opposition begins.

If we are starting with the disaster of hpi and the so-called 'affordable housing crisis' then thats a good enough start for me.

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UK politicians(and bankers) only ever seem to offer sensible opinions when in opposition or after they've retired. In power they revert to crazies.

Edited by billybong

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Home ownership % started to fall in 2003 .... labour had been in power for six years and would be in power for the next six / seven years. When did house prices really start to hyper-inflate and who was in power; Labour .... the Tories have just continued the 'good' work.

I think its fair to say that irrespective of the ups and downs of the housing market, very few got their head around hpi as a 'problem' until the last decade. It seems to me that evidence of it surfacing as a potential political hot potato a lot more recent than that.

The role of Thatcher / New Labour does help set out the problems and hence possible solutions - but beyond that no point getting lost in a blame game now. Well - of course I make exception for PMQT !

Now is the time to set out the agenda for the next 5 years. If you understand the problem, imho it was an appallingly complacent performance by the prime minister today - haranguing the opposition with incompetent policy ! Optimism is probably unfounded but here's hoping it can't last for 5 years without him doing something about it.

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UK politicians(and bankers) only ever seem to offer sensible opinions when in opposition or after they've retired. In power they revert to crazies.

There is definitely something in the fact that its easier to slag off than create policy.

Trouble is, this lot have been voted in on by and large crazy ideas on housing, by an electorate who think that 0% interest rates and Q.E. are the new normal. Well 7 years after the crash, who can blame them ? But it does seem they are starting to sniff there is something wrong with housing.

What could possibly go wrong...

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There is definitely something in the fact that its easier to slag off than create policy.

Trouble is, this lot have been voted in on by and large crazy ideas on housing, by an electorate who think that 0% interest rates and Q.E. are the new normal. Well 7 years after the crash, who can blame them ? But it does seem they are starting to sniff there is something wrong with housing.

What could possibly go wrong...

It's not even the plain slagging off/criticising (criticising for the sake of it) bit that they also do out of power.

They quite often talk plain sense when in opposition/retirement. - as well as slag off. But when they are creating policy they most usually do something completely different to the policies expounded out of power. Even Sir Mervyn the banker had some sensible things to say after retirement.

I imagine it's partly because out of power they don't have to justify what they're being told to do by the unelected powers.

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It's not even the plain slagging off/criticising (criticising for the sake of it) bit that they also do out of power.

They quite often talk plain sense when in opposition/retirement. - as well as slag off. But when they are creating policy they most usually do something completely different to the policies expounded out of power. Even Sir Mervyn the banker had some sensible things to say after retirement.

I imagine it's partly because out of power they don't have to justify what they're being told to do by the unelected powers.

Well, I'm not sure about the unelected powers but I know what you mean ref Mervyn. They have their manifestos, their whips, their media arrangements and funders - thats easily enough.

Take today however - it was mostly political pantomime, but also an interesting gauge of where they are.

Cameron is effectively flag-waving RTB as a sort of Thatcherite jingo-ism. Harman attacking the loss of social housing will equally play well to the left. In that sense neither are appealing to or using 'plain sense' its just a politics parade. Genuine question - how well does this play out in the parties and out into the country ?

Its only when you look at what they are saying a little more closely than the 'pantomime' intends - and unfortunately while Harman plays with an admirable straight bat, pantomime is not what she does - that Cameron's position unravels. Under the flag-waving you sort of ask - are things that bad that that is really all you've got ?!

There is a hard political/economic question finally starting to be asked here. The conservatives will drive up the burden on the tax payer but with crocodile tears will relieve it with cuts to HB - i.e. dump the burden of a broken crony ponzi market on the poor, and get votes from VI's and through a dissembling media. In this sense they do not actually have to do any more 'thinking' whether in government or opposition.

Labour are doing the relatively easy thing of pointing out that economically, practically this is completely nuts. I say relatively easy but its taken a fecking long time to get here. The hard thing - the 'sensible opinion' thing you mention hasn't happened -the 'obvious' insight has to extend into a broader argument where the general economy is liberated from the 'speculative'/rent-seeking burden towards a more workable, liberated and ultimately creative version of capitalism.

Back to the pantomime - thats a bit of a challenge if you are a flag-waving member of either the left or right, in or out of government.

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It's especially evident soon after an election in opposition or after a retirement when they can speak relatively freely.

As a general election approaches and there's a chance that they might get in power then the story alters due to outside influences.

If they win then the story alters again and often by an order of magnitude especially as the next general election comes into view

It happens time and time again.

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Which political party was in power over the last thirty years and saw a series HPC?

Its looking good as there is little left that could be done to stop an HPC without devastating the wider economy.

Harman will keep hammering home the fact that the Tory's have been in power since 2010 so can't blame Liebor to further distance them from their fecklessness.

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Which political party was in power over the last thirty years and saw a series HPC?

Its looking good as there is little left that could be done to stop an HPC without devastating the wider economy.

Harman will keep hammering home the fact that the Tory's have been in power since 2010 so can't blame Liebor to further distance them from their fecklessness.'

I blame Labour.

I also blame the Tories, perhaps even more.

I'm a bit unsure on the Libdems, the Greens seem clued up but they would undoubtedly be incompetent and UKIP can simply feck off.

I also blame Kirstie and her ilk. And the banks. And the estate agents, although less than most on here do.

I definitely blame the entire electorate, they mostly asked for this hpi mess, specifically - it was no accident.

All the history and analysis that that blame represents leads me to a special sort of fecklessness: actually I couldn't care less now who is to blame. I'm sure with half a century of mixed political history anybody can construct a narrative to favour their own political hobby horse.

Well, to be fair there is one group in all that you have to of course single out. Because the electorate is starting to feel the pain. Not that necessarily helps - we've seen plenty of politics designed to exploit that 'pain' and actually make it worse.

HPC may be unstoppable, but I welcome anybody who begins to recognise the source of that pain and the real cost of HPI first.

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We have to be very sceptical about this right to buy.....there will be unscrupulous people who will want to buy the right from the people who will not be given a mortgage to buy their right.......the property will if not careful will not go to the renters, but to already wealthy property speculators to add to their portfolio.

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From the previous RTB scheme; all of the homes on a NW London street bar one (that our friends live in) are now owned by BTL LLs.

Happening everywhere........local homes being sold, not to people who buy to live in it but buy to rent it out.....no longer high turnover of house sales more high turnover of neighbours......

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Happening everywhere........local homes being sold, not to people who buy to live in it but buy to rent it out.....no longer high turnover of house sales more high turnover of neighbours......

And for anyone who has lived next door to private tennants, it's not necessarily somehwere you'd want to buy a house now.

This country is a right mess

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And for anyone who has lived next door to private tennants, it's not necessarily somehwere you'd want to buy a house now.

This country is a right mess

So they sell to those who have cheap access to the greatest debt....a BTLer until the tables turn.....it will, when the figures no longer add up and there will be new choices offering better returns in safer places.....the appeal of BTL is growth using leverage, money that is not your own, but when the deposit/equity starts to erode but the debt and the problems do not sentiment will change.

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We have to be very sceptical about this right to buy.....there will be unscrupulous people who will want to buy the right from the people who will not be given a mortgage to buy their right.......the property will if not careful will not go to the renters, but to already wealthy property speculators to add to their portfolio.

It will end up there anyway, sooner or later.

And it means less ballast to housing costs.

Edited by pig

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