Attitudes About Owning A Home Changing?

[Fancypants]

There is definitely a crisis of identity amongst the younger generation. Although perhaps this is an epiphenomenon of affluence again...if we are looking for meaning in life it is because we can afford to!

or perhaps our meaning in life is nothing more than to simply exist and ensure that we continue to exist by procreating and rearing healthy offspring. The struggle gives life it's meaning.

Now that we do not have to struggle to achieve this, we are corpulent, redundant, superfluous, and ripe for a clear out?

That's another way of looking at it (I do not necessarily subscribe to it)

[DonnieDarker]

or perhaps our meaning in life is nothing more than to simply exist and ensure that we continue to exist by procreating and rearing healthy offspring. The struggle gives life it's meaning.

Now that we do not have to struggle to achieve this, we are corpulent, redundant, superfluous, and ripe for a clear out?

That's another way of looking at it (I do not necessarily subscribe to it)

Steady on Adolf!

A crisis/struggle is never far away. I'm having visions of Britain's next recession being ****ing depressing though. For a lot of people (a whole generation) all they have ever experienced is a period of affluence.

[RichM]

I myself was complete fashion-victim a few years ago and you just get to a point when you the shopping is not going to answer the great questions life poses you. Funnily enough I considered going to church but thought most of the people there would irritate me.

Especially at Christmas time, DD, especially at Christmas time.

Incidentally everyone, it's the St Stephen's South Lambeth (SW8 1AU) Christmas Extravaganza this Sunday (the 18th) - 4.30pm, candles, carols, an interactive Christmas play, mince pies, all invited. Discover the true meaning of Christmas this Christmas. I'll be there and will buy anyone who finds me and mentions this site a big glass of sherry.

[DonnieDarker]

..."From Grunge to Bling: The Democratisation Of Status in Blair's Britain 1995-2005"

[RichM]

..."From Grunge to Bling: The Democratisation Of Status in Blair's Britain 1995-2005"

That's a corker of a media studies PhD dissertation, DD.

For a case study you could look at the fortunes of "Burberry".

Incidentally a friend of mine did her final year diss on Eminem and got a first. A real life topic treated in a scholarly fashion can score well.

[DonnieDarker]

That's a corker of a media studies PhD dissertation, DD.

For a case study you could look at the fortunes of "Burberry".

Incidentally a friend of mine did her final year diss on Eminem and got a first. A real life topic treated in a scholarly fashion can score well.

If I had DeLorean I'd write that thesis.

I studied Media actually, and got a First, but this disseration would have been so much more rewarding than the various things I wrote about.

One of my essays was interpreting Jerry Springer through the criteria the Greeks used for their Tragedies...5 years later...there's a bloody Pseudo-Greek-Tragedy-come-Opera on it!

I'm wasted.

[Marina]

Especially at Christmas time, DD, especially at Christmas time.

Incidentally everyone, it's the St Stephen's South Lambeth (SW8 1AU) Christmas Extravaganza this Sunday (the 18th) - 4.30pm, candles, carols, an interactive Christmas play, mince pies, all invited. Discover the true meaning of Christmas this Christmas. I'll be there and will buy anyone who finds me and mentions this site a big glass of sherry.

The true meaning of Christmas - celebrating Christ's birth?

He said 'Love thy neighbour as thyself'. Brilliant idea! What a wonderful world it would be.

How does this square with the Church of England being one of the country's largest landowners and landlords.

And the Church of Rome being so wealthy it is just plain disgusting.

I've always had a little problem with organized religion. Some people I know go to a new-fangled (imported from the States I believe) church called (something like) 'The Grapevine'. Never been myself but apparently they all do nice things and help those worse off than themselves etc - but, and this is weird, they manage to get by meeting up in a rented hall once a week. No big churches and paid clergy for them. Seems like a good idea to me.

Edited December 13, 2005 by Marina

[brainclamp]

How about anther perspective ....

What if I do want to own a house for the security I think it brings me? According to some on this site it should not matter - but to me it does.

What if I want to get married and have children in our own house? According to this site, I should be happy to rent and not be fixated on home owning. Fine, but to me I want to buy so as I get older I have a house I can call my own.

What if I am extremely p!""£d off at not being able to achieve this when the generations before me have been able to? Then being told by said generation that I should either mortgae to the hilt, or be contented with renting.

If home ownership is not important, then what would the view of a BTL landlord be - they are owners after all? Sorry, they have a different perspective - according to recent press some do it to make money for their pensions, whilst I have to be content with renting now and during my pension, etc....

So maybe I will give up my aspirations and go down a route of self indulgence ... and where will this lead me and the future of this country because we are now living a different life to those in the past ... uncertainty perhaps?

How can anybody plan for an uncertain future?

Just my view, please feel free to be critical!

What is occuring is a total shift in the economic landscape.

If you plot the price of houses against the total net worth of the economy, houseprices have mushroomed to over 50% of the UKs net worth, from less than 18% just 10 years ago.

For them to continue at a 15%-18% compounding rate of the past decade while the economy grows at 3.5%pa would mean that the entire net worth of the UK economy would totally reside in housing and property inside of another 5 years or so. In just 5 years a 250k house would cost 1/2m, while your 250k in cash would have grown to under 300k.

Housing and property empires would represent a mindboggling 80% of the UK economy, while all the other economic activities and operations, (not providing accomodation services) of UK plc would squish into whats left.

Is this possible? Yes. DO NOT DISMISS rising rents, and MORE taxation breaks and subsidies to 'poltically correct'/'politcally favoured' workers - i.e. those in the public sector with unions which could strike and raise wages over houseprices.

The only way out for ordinary workers, FTbers etc... is to unionise.

[RichM]

The true meaning of Christmas - celebrating Christ's birth?

He said 'Love thy neighbour as thyself'. Brilliant idea! What a wonderful world it would be.

How does this square with the Church of England being one of the country's largest landowners and landlords.

And the Church of Rome being so wealthy it is just plain disgusting.

I've always had a little problem with organized religion. Some people I know go to a new-fangled (imported from the States I believe) church called (something like) 'The Grapevine'. Never been myself but apparently they all do nice things and help those worse off than themselves etc - but, and this is weird, they manage to get by meeting up in a rented hall once a week. No big churches and paid clergy for them. Seems like a good idea to me.

That's right Marina, the birth of Jesus. See, RE lessons do serve a purpose...

The CoE is going to struggle to pay its clergy pensions! There's no big fund or asset class available that is just being sat on for the sake of it. I have a copy of "Who owns Britain" so will read up on the CoE. Much of the land has been sold off to the show on the road, makes up graveyards, etc. There is a problem with two many bishops though, but where we are we have to cough up a lot of cash and get very little back :angry:

In fact one guy at our church is very distressed by the fact that Church Commissioners (the guys who run the church's assets) are going to try and charge and other tenants of their CoE social housing near-market rents. That's how strapped they are!

Don't know how wealthy the RCC is.

Your friends are going to quite a good church as far as I am aware. These "home" churches are very interesting, they grow very quickly, and can be very close to the model of the early Church. But they do have their problems too - some pastors can go off the rails and take their flock with them...

If you plot the price of houses against the total net worth of the economy, houseprices have mushroomed to over 50% of the UKs net worth, from less than 18% just 10 years ago.

For them to continue at a 15%-18% compounding rate of the past decade while the economy grows at 3.5%pa would mean that the entire net worth of the UK economy would totally reside in housing and property inside of another 5 years or so. In just 5 years a 250k house would cost 1/2m, while your 250k in cash would have grown to under 300k.

The economy would collapse if IRs ever got back to 5%!!! Can't see it happening, the economy would just be too vulnerable.

[Fancypants]

Steady on Adolf!

A crisis/struggle is never far away. I'm having visions of Britain's next recession being ****ing depressing though. For a lot of people (a whole generation) all they have ever experienced is a period of affluence.

confession: I did watch Downfall on Sunday night, I guess it has subliminally influenced me more than I had realised!

Anyway, if you don't mind I'll toddle off awhile to continue breeding. Or at least practising the first bit.

[Angus D Bitters]

The young of today have no idea about saving.

I watch my nephews and neices, and great nephews and great neices, they have all these gadgets and computers and eat takeaways and half of them still live at home sponging off their parents and moaning that they can't afford anywhere to live.

If they saved some of the money they like to spend each weekend they might manage a deposit.

If they tried waiting for things thay might be able to save but no they have to have all the latest things and they have to have them now and if they can't afford them their parents buy them for them.

[RichM]

Angust I totally hear what you're saying.

But let's take an example. A man DOESN'T get his weekly takeaway or whatever

He saves 20 quid a week - after one year, 1k; after five years, 5k

He saves 50 quid a week - after one year, 2.5k; after five years, 12.5k

Haves 100 quid a week - after one year, 5K; after five years, 25K

25K would be a 10% deposit on a two-bed near me.

Average price of a home in the UK is nearing 200K - and after five years of fairly hard saving, he only have 12.5% to put down.

Is it even worth bothering with? Just to buy a pile of dried dirt?

I'm focusing on trying to get more papers published, and do the Lord's work. Tell it brother!

[MarkG]

Average price of a home in the UK is nearing 200K - and after five years of fairly hard saving, he only have 12.5% to put down.

Don't forget that if the bulls are right and prices keep rising at nearly 20% a year, the average price will be 400k by the time they've saved that 25k...

[London Landlady]

Don't forget that if the bulls are right and prices keep rising at nearly 20% a year, the average price will be 400k by the time they've saved that 25k...

Can you actually quote a bull who says prices will rise 20% a year?

I certainly don't - unlike the bears who are convinced prices will drop up to 50%

Surely if someone earns 20-25k a year and lives at home, they could save at least 10k per year and if houses are 200k that would be 2 years for to save for a 10% deposit.

[a j]

Can you actually quote a bull who says prices will rise 20% a year?

I certainly don't - unlike the bears who are convinced prices will drop up to 50%

Surely if someone earns 20-25k a year and lives at home, they could save at least 10k per year and if houses are 200k that would be 2 years for to save for a 10% deposit.

I suspect that saving £10k pa on a £20k salary would be a bit steep but I'm sure that some could do it. However, how would they pay the morgage assuming it is £180k after placing a £20k deposit?

[BuyingBear]

Un cha un cha un cha un cha un cha un cha un cha

"It's the voodoo who do what you don't dare to people!", "Magic People Voodoo People"!

That's the Prodigy referring to banks and Estate Agents.

[2005]

Surely if someone earns 20-25k a year and lives at home, they could save at least 10k per year and if houses are 200k that would be 2 years for to save for a 10% deposit.

I think your missing something out of the equation there LL. It isn't as simple as just getting a mortgage - you have to pay it aswell.

Most people actually want to home to live in - not as an investment to rent out. While you are renting your property out someone is paying some of the mortgage for you.

If you live in a property then you are paying it yourself...get it!!

Salary of 25K

Take home pay approx £17500

Mortgage on an £180K mortgage at approx 5% = about £1000 per month = £12000 per annum

£17500 - £12000 = £5500 per annum to live on

Not a lot left to live on.

[RichM]

"It's the voodoo who do what you don't dare to people!", "Magic People Voodoo People"!

That's the Prodigy referring to banks and Estate Agents.

Charlie says...

Buy a house! Now, before they go up in price again! Quick!

I got the debt, I got the remedy, I got the pulsating bankrupting remedy...

[MarkG]

Not a lot left to live on.

And then, don't forget, even if you're not bankrupted by high interest rates in the meantime, you still have to pay for the house at the end of the mortgage.

But don't worry, salaries will double every few years even though your job can be done for $0.50 an hour in China.

[dude]

While house price bubbles have been around for a long time it was in the 80s when the seeds were sown for the present calamity. Encouraging home ownership and preventing people from renting in the public sector (socialist scum) has exacerbated where we are now.

Even in the 70s and 80s everyone aspired to home ownership. Who wouldn't? The belief that you would have no rent or mortgage payments was attractive. What has happened now is the social provision is very small, and we have to use the private rental sector to meet our needs. (Remember 1918 and homes fit for heros? How long before there is a political voice reiterating that again?)

Meanwhile, just as you are forced to spend more and more on just being alive, another juggernaut comes round the corner -- pay for your own education. My advice to anyone going to university today is to go and then work abroad.

Every month (year?) house prices stay high the greater is the effect on the young. More and more children are growing into young adults -- but they can't leave home. That's no future.

But there is a solution. The government can change the rules, compulsory purchase more land (the green belt is a nonsense, peddled by landowners and those who live in the country) and initiate a public works program. It happend in the 1920s. It can happen again. (Oh no, it can't. I forgot -- Thatcher's legacy has now become orthoxdoxy. Well b*gger it. We're all doomed...)

[London Landlady]

And then, don't forget, even if you're not bankrupted by high interest rates in the meantime, you still have to pay for the house at the end of the mortgage.

But don't worry, salaries will double every few years even though your job can be done for $0.50 an hour in China.

Surely the example given was a repayment mortgage? I don't know any IO mortgage which would charge 1,000 per month on a 180k loan.

[doogie]

I got the debt, I got the remedy, I got the pulsating bankrupting remedy...

And then...

There was a time when my walls where decorated.

And under my roof children where educated.

But now paint's faded, windows are all smashed,

a crash in the economy robbed me of my family.

And no strategy, combats negative equity,

so that's it. Like violence it's drastic.

I'm freaking, and seeking to be

more than just a house for crack.

Somebody bring my family back.

[DonnieDarker]

And then...

There was a time when my walls where decorated.

And under my roof children where educated.

But now paint's faded, windows are all smashed,

a crash in the economy robbed me of my family.

And no strategy, combats negative equity,

so that's it. Like violence it's drastic.

I'm freaking, and seeking to be

more than just a house for crack.

Somebody bring my family back.

Are you Billy Bragg in disguise?

[brainclamp]

When you say no bull predicts that house prices could jump 15% pa again, both bulls and bears could be wrong footed.

New Zealand, the bank which 1st introducted inflation targeting, now has the highest interest rates in the world. However, People there - quite rationally - do not save, they borrow much more than thier incomes to spend. Because of the high interest rates and high NZD, its real/productive economy is under great stress with falling profits in its stockmarket.

You may find this unbelievable, but , the value of ordinary peoples homes are still increasing by 14%pa this Dec.

The central bank has now dumped inflation targeting, and has said that they are now targeting banks lending against housing and are bringing in credit controls - i.e. re-regulation of the deregulated credit market.

[doogie]

Are you Billy Bragg in disguise?

Nah, but Maxi Jazz from Faithless should be proud