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fru-gal

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"I was a mortgage broker and ran a small financial services company (IFA background)."

Glad I took responsibility for my own wealth creation actions, swerved away from the financial "experts" and went DIY in 2007. Now nearly over the FI finish line. An alternative journey could have so easily led me to an "expert" like this.

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I think he forgot about the most important word....profit.

he focused on that piece on the capital value, the prestige of being asked for advice, and recklessly went in for many joint ventures. Then fell for the posh voices and qualifications of a couple of City Scammers.....or maybe he lied to them...who knows?

Anyway, profit seems to be forgotten in most of these scenarious.

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I think he forgot about the most important word....profit.

he focused on that piece on the capital value, the prestige of being asked for advice, and recklessly went in for many joint ventures. Then fell for the posh voices and qualifications of a couple of City Scammers.....or maybe he lied to them...who knows?

Anyway, profit seems to be forgotten in most of these scenarious.

Good point. I'm the first person to try and avoid as much tax as possible however in a strange way I also don't mind paying my share because it's confirmation that my investments are spinning off plenty of free cash.

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"I was a mortgage broker and ran a small financial services company (IFA background)."

Glad I took responsibility for my own wealth creation actions, swerved away from the financial "experts" and went DIY in 2007. Now nearly over the FI finish line. An alternative journey could have so easily led me to an "expert" like this.

And yet he seems to blame other brokers and developers for his own choices and for "being sold that it didn't matter if you overpaid as you weren't putting money in"!

Looking through his other posts he sources properties and project manages for other people now, which might be limiting his own risk (possibly learnt something, although maybe not very much) but what kind of person would employ him knowing how badly wrong he got all of those decisions for himself? It seems like he's chosen to make these past failures public because he mistakenly thinks they don't really reflect badly on him.

The project which he, potentially erroneously, seems to attribute as pushing him over the edge looks like a poor gamble from start to finish (who really expects listed building consent for converting a single house into 5 flats to be easy?) and hints at illegality (why were the "sheds" in the garden important?) but again he tries to apportion the majority of the blame to everyone else but himself.

No sign of anything remotely like the personal responsibility that you've taken for your investment decisions.

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Anyway what did i learn from all this :

1) I did a lot of shooting and a lot of scoring, also a lot of missing but learnt huge amount about refurbishing, managing projects/staff, and got some really good property contacts - so learnt I'd be crazy to throw that away and get a standard day job (although very tempting)

2) I learnt any risky/large project has to be separated from anything of value you have personally or business.

3) Learnt that you have to do business with the right people (good question and whole new topic) else consequences can be huge.

4) always keep your options open

5) don't over stretch yourself - analyze and work out exactly where the lines are here (prob a whole new topic too)

6) buy well and do very good due diligence on anything you're looking to buy.

7) avoid overpriced new builds and if you're going to have a large portfolio without other income - make sure its managed well and good yielding properties.

Sorry for such a long story (amazed if you're still reading!) but hope it helps someone somewhere.

regards Andrew

It doesn't sound like he has learned anything! He chased easy money from property and he's still going to chase it in the future?!

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Good find.

It's a fascinating insight into how easy it was for anyone to start from nothing and leverage debt upon debt in the run up to the banking crisis in 2008. It's also clear that his 'business' created absolutely no wealth or produced anything of value at all, it just outbid other market participants with less apitite for risk and then rented leveraged assets back to them.

There is some irony that he eventually got shafted by some city types, shades of the bigger boys in the playground mugging you for the lunch money you just mugged off the preschoolers.

But most of all it is a great illustration of how the financialisation of the economy achieves little beyond funnelling money upwards. Ultimately everyone lost out except the uber spivs.

Hurrah for the rent-seekers.

Edited by Bear Goggles

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And yet he seems to blame other brokers and developers for his own choices and for "being sold that it didn't matter if you overpaid as you weren't putting money in"!

Looking through his other posts he sources properties and project manages for other people now, which might be limiting his own risk (possibly learnt something, although maybe not very much) but what kind of person would employ him knowing how badly wrong he got all of those decisions for himself? It seems like he's chosen to make these past failures public because he mistakenly thinks they don't really reflect badly on him.

The project which he, potentially erroneously, seems to attribute as pushing him over the edge looks like a poor gamble from start to finish (who really expects listed building consent for converting a single house into 5 flats to be easy?) and hints at illegality (why were the "sheds" in the garden important?) but again he tries to apportion the majority of the blame to everyone else but himself.

No sign of anything remotely like the personal responsibility that you've taken for your investment decisions.

I think he published it as the delusion he was under is very seductive indeed. It is entrapping thousands every year. It enrages venger that people even own up to this mindset.

It is real. Perhaps he thinks others might think twice and learn a little from his mistakes.

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I am always shocked at the poor grammar and spelling on that site, never mind the structure of landlords' writing.

It's almost as though they are all losers who are failures in ordinary walks of life.

The guy with the username DislexicLandlord is there, that thick **** is on every site to do with being a BTL slumlord and lords it up.

In my moments of weakness i think that it's the states fault for allowing this to happen and these people done nothing more than play the game, but then i think of the wretched filth i've rented off and realise i wish these people nothing but torment.

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The guy with the username DislexicLandlord is there, that thick **** is on every site to do with being a BTL slumlord and lords it up.

In my moments of weakness i think that it's the states fault for allowing this to happen and these people done nothing more than play the game, but then i think of the wretched filth i've rented off and realise i wish these people nothing but torment.

See comments: http://citywire.co.uk/money/should-you-trade-your-pension-for-a-buy-to-let/a811854

I was a wage slave running a small business as a Hairdresser since I was 21 in 1980 I did ok struggling to run staff paying NI paying VAT and it was bloody hard work My future would be ok but I would never be a Millionair and I knew I was work in a shop for the rest of my days paying into a pension which would hopefully keep me out of the gutter in old age

I fell into buying property in 1982 BTL was not heard of at that time in the late 1990s at the time I had a Two Properties and I remortgaged and I invested in property again and again the result today is I have a very large business of investment propertys ect It has made me quite rich and hopefully it will give me and my partrner the freedom to enjoy life into old age and then Hopefully subjest to IHT will transfer to my Children and Grand Children

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Sums it up really, crap hairdresser who doesn't like work and hasn't the fibre to try productive at a young age becomes wealthy by doing bugger all except filling out mortgage applications and collecting rent.

A modern day entrepreneur.

But is that any worse than what I do. I invest in the stock market and rent seek that way. Free money is free money it doesn't matter which asset class produces it surely?

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But is that any worse than what I do. I invest in the stock market and rent seek that way. Free money is free money it doesn't matter which asset class produces it surely?

You are investing in companies, some of which presumably make stuff and employ people.

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But is that any worse than what I do. I invest in the stock market and rent seek that way. Free money is free money it doesn't matter which asset class produces it surely?

.

Edited by Bear Goggles

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But is that any worse than what I do. I invest in the stock market and rent seek that way. Free money is free money it doesn't matter which asset class produces it surely?

Two main differences. 1. You alone bear the risk of your speculation. You will not get a tax payer funded bail out if you invest poorly. 2. You are not monopolising an essential resource, I can choose to invest in another company if I think you have bid one up too much, or indeed choose not invest at all without being forced to pay others rent to do so.

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The project which he, potentially erroneously, seems to attribute as pushing him over the edge looks like a poor gamble from start to finish (who really expects listed building consent for converting a single house into 5 flats to be easy?) and hints at illegality (why were the "sheds" in the garden important?) but again he tries to apportion the majority of the blame to everyone else but himself.

No sign of anything remotely like the personal responsibility that you've taken for your investment decisions.

Good points. I read that thread a week or so ago. No responsibility - as many properties as possible, then blame someone else when overstretch.

Anyway it was years ago his overstretch. The most depressing part of that thread, as I recall it from a week or so ago, was the other members/BTLers, newer members mostly... just 5-8 years later... in the same frame of mind to be property-magnates and dominate renters (and probably getting finance to buy properties again) being surprised it could happen like that, and thanking him for his wisdom to learn from in this new Bubble 2.0, way higher than pre-crunch prices around here.

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You are investing in companies, some of which presumably make stuff and employ people.

Yes and making money off the backs of other people money I haven't had to get up in the morning to earn.

I guess the BTL LL provides shelter and a place for some one to live. He also makes money off the backs of other people. I can't see the distinction it's just capitalism

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But is that any worse than what I do. I invest in the stock market and rent seek that way. Free money is free money it doesn't matter which asset class produces it surely?

If you and several taxpayer funded banks aided and abetted by the government colluded to make the price of shares you own in food and water go through the roof by making sure price of food and water was barley affordable to anyone who didn't own a few of these shares prior to 2002 then it would be the same.

Property in the UK gets too much subsidy for it to be an "asset class", and property should never be an "asset class".

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Yes and making money off the backs of other people money I haven't had to get up in the morning to earn.

I guess the BTL LL provides shelter and a place for some one to live. He also makes money off the backs of other people. I can't see the distinction it's just capitalism

If it were 'just capitalism', not 0.5% Global QE £$Y€ TRILLIONS printed, and continuing to enable so many dummies, then we'd have much lower house prices, and it wouldn't be so painful to endure these 'just capitalism smart' landlords, imo.

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Yes and making money off the backs of other people money I haven't had to get up in the morning to earn.

I guess the BTL LL provides shelter and a place for some one to live. He also makes money off the backs of other people. I can't see the distinction it's just capitalism

But you are investing in the (once) free market by investing in companies.

The housing market is rigged and is a far awy from the free market as could possibly be.

Let me build a house anywhere i choose, and end QE, H2B, FFL, Housing Benefit, raise interest rates and then we can compare the 2 investment models.

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Interesting thing morals.

Say I put some money into a fund and I thought that the fund manager was investing in the tobacco industry and the defence industry but unknowing to me he put money into BTL.

Now there is me thinking I am only giving people cancer or blowing off peoples legs with land mines but in fact I am giving people shelter as well.Would you hate me for it?

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Interesting thing morals.

Say I put some money into a fund and I thought that the fund manager was investing in the tobacco industry and the defence industry but unknowing to me he put money into BTL.

Now there is me thinking I am only giving people cancer or blowing off peoples legs with land mines but in fact I am giving people shelter as well.Would you hate me for it?

OK you win Buytolet landlords are great, they are wealth creating entrepreneurs who house people that otherwise would be destitute.

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