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Poland Says 'definite No' To David Cameron's Plans To Curb Benefits For Immigrants

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/11637644/Poland-definite-no-to-UK-plans-to-curb-migrants-benefits.html

Janusz Lewandowski, Ms Kopacz's chief economic adviser, said: “Cameron won’t get far in Warsaw. He wants to limit immigrant rights and will hear a definite no, as he did in other European capitals."

Why is Poland rejecting its nationals? I suspect they know most Polish in the UK are frontier workers, and there's a ton of money flowing from the UK to Poland, all enabled by benefit props. Take those props away, and suddenly it's not viable for many (most?) Polish workers to be in the UK.

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Exactly.

Its the same for nearly all countries around the EU East and North Africa.

Remittances from expat workers are billions of £ and allowing the UK and then other richer countries to change the rules is a turkey voting for Christmas situation.

They are just not going to agree to it. I am actually not surprised Eastern European countries do not empty their prisons and round up the wasters give them all a few hundred £ and put them on a coach.

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Exactly.

Its the same for nearly all countries around the EU East and North Africa.

Remittances from expat workers are billions of £ and allowing the UK and then other richer countries to change the rules is a turkey voting for Christmas situation.

They are just not going to agree to it. I am actually not surprised Eastern European countries do not empty their prisons and round up the wasters give them all a few hundred £ and put them on a coach.

Not far of it from some of more recent arrivals.

Why not have a scheme like the EU health thing.

EU nationals are treated and UKGOV claims back the money?

EU nations claim benefit and the UK claims it back from their own country?

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Exactly.

Its the same for nearly all countries around the EU East and North Africa.

Remittances from expat workers are billions of £ and allowing the UK and then other richer countries to change the rules is a turkey voting for Christmas situation.

They are just not going to agree to it. I am actually not surprised Eastern European countries do not empty their prisons and round up the wasters give them all a few hundred £ and put them on a coach.

It`s easy to see why it`s so hard to get into Australia now

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The poles are right.

Britain has a bizarre and perverse benefits scheme. But two wrongs don't make a right, and adding an exclusion on Polish workers based on their nationality would just be yet another wrong.

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The poles are right.

Britain has a bizarre and perverse benefits scheme. But two wrongs don't make a right, and adding an exclusion on Polish workers based on their nationality would just be yet another wrong.

But the more they squeal the more voters in Britain are likely to vote to leave them to it?

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Our ancestors who lie at the bottom of the Atlantic and under the fields of Flanders must be spinning in their graves.

A British Prime Minister going cap in hand to European leaders asking them to let him change the way our taxes are spent and our borders controlled.

Edited by disenfranchised

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Our ancestors who lie at the bottom of the Atlantic and under the fields of Flanders must be spinning in their graves.

A British Prime Minister going cap in hand to European leaders asking them to let him change the way our taxes are spent and our borders controlled.

"Cap In Hand". Great song by The Proclaimers.

Well worth a listen ;)

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Cameron knows that they will all say "no" to what he is asking. This gives him an excuse to introduce benefit cuts that affect everyone (including British nationals) under the excuse that it is the only way to level the playing field. He can also blame it on the EU because EU rules dictate that benefits entitlements to EU nationals must apply in the same way they apply to nationals of the host country.

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I can't help but think that this whole thing is one big herring.

1. Who says we can't change entitlements. They just have to be clever about doing it so it doesn't discriminate against EU citizens. e.g. a minimum residency requirement. You can still give out discretionary sums in times of real hardships.

2. Never forget the 'issue' of non EU immigration. Why don't they change that or tell us exactly what elements they can't change ...e.g. marriages.

Precisely. The issue has been carefully chosen so that Cameron can present a solution he could have implemented anyway as a 'concession' from the EU.

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I can't help but think that this whole thing is one big herring.

1. Who says we can't change entitlements. They just have to be clever about doing it so it doesn't discriminate against EU citizens. e.g. a minimum residency requirement. You can still give out discretionary sums in times of real hardships.

2. Never forget the 'issue' of non EU immigration. Why don't they change that or tell us exactly what elements they can't change ...e.g. marriages.

Seems the better option.

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Cameron knows that they will all say "no" to what he is asking. This gives him an excuse to introduce benefit cuts that affect everyone (including British nationals) under the excuse that it is the only way to level the playing field. He can also blame it on the EU because EU rules dictate that benefits entitlements to EU nationals must apply in the same way they apply to nationals of the host country.

I do not care how they sell it to public it they reduce the benefits; mainly working tax credits and housing benefit.

It is OK for EU immigrant to do not get benefits as unemployed for some initial period, but it is wrong to treat working EU immigrants as 2nd class citizens.

Plus British public conveniently forgets how the UK brain drain is damaging South and East of EU.

immigration uk.png

post-7729-0-80245600-1432903058_thumb.png

Edited by Damik

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I can't help but think that this whole thing is one big herring.

1. Who says we can't change entitlements. They just have to be clever about doing it so it doesn't discriminate against EU citizens. e.g. a minimum residency requirement. You can still give out discretionary sums in times of real hardships.

2. Never forget the 'issue' of non EU immigration. Why don't they change that or tell us exactly what elements they can't change ...e.g. marriages.

It's like child benefit, to claim your child must be resident in the UK and must attend school 95% of the school year, unless of course they are hospitalised etc...

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How do the Germans handle immigration? How generous is their welfare system?

Germans has higher % of immigration than UK.

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How do the Germans handle immigration? How generous is their welfare system?

No idea but I posted this to another thread detailing benefits EU migrants can receive in France.

There are a lot of non contributory benefits on offer to EU and even non-EU nationals in France. Here is a list if you fancy living there.

  • RSA (revenu de solidarité active), is administered at a departmental level. This benefit is paid to people who have either exhausted their unemployment benefit or who don't qualify for unemployment benefit and where the household resources are below a certain level. It is non contributory. To qualify an EU national must be legally resident in France and have been so for 3 months prior to the claim. Non EU nationals need a 5 year residency period to qualify except for certain classes of people (asylum seekers etc). The level is 514 €, which is about 4,500 UKP / annum.
  • Council housing - in some areas in France you can walk straight into a council house because there is so little demand.
  • Housing Benefit. Paid to people on low incomes in the private sector. Talk of reducing this as studies show that it pushes rental costs up 10% in the major towns and cities.
  • Child benefit you have to have more than one child to qualify. Four kids will net you 5530 € / annum or around 4200 UKP. There are plans to means test this benefit, it is already taxed.
  • Pensions: Without having paid into the system up to 791,99€ / month provided you live in France for 6 months of the year and are aged 65 or above. The sum takes into account total household income.
  • Health The CMU and CMU-C if you are a legal resident or AME if you are illegal. Depends on total household resources. Anyone receiving RSA should qualify for CMU and CMU-C.
  • ARS (Allocation de rentrée scolaire), Help with school expenses paid annually. It ranges from 362,63 € to 395,90 € depending on the child's age. You even can get it if your child is in private education. Around 4 million French kids are in private sector schools. However it is means tested. If you have 3 kids your revenue has to be less than 35 524 €/annum.

Just to note that as a EU national you don't have a right to reside in another EU country without sufficient resources until you have 5 years residency. If you look at the website for all of these benefits they say that payment is discretionary for any EU national with less than 5 years residency.

Unemployment benefit and complementary parts of the state pension and the basic state pension from age 62 are all contributory.

Asylum seekers get accommodation, an allowance of 11 euros per day plus free medical care.

Edited by davidg

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How do the Germans handle immigration? How generous is their welfare system?

By previous contributions and time limited. They have to apply the way they offer benefits to non-Germans in the same way they would offer it to Germans, so it is based on contributions and time limits for Germans too.

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No idea but I posted this to another thread detailing benefits EU migrants can receive in France.

Perhaps David should rather blame himself and not the EU. Clearly France does not have these kind of problems:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11020429

The Roma are EU citizens, mostly from Romania or Bulgaria, but French law requires them to have a work permit and prove they have the means to support themselves if they intend to stay for more than three months.

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Perhaps David should rather blame himself and not the EU. Clearly France does not have these kind of problems:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11020429

The Roma are EU citizens, mostly from Romania or Bulgaria, but French law requires them to have a work permit and prove they have the means to support themselves if they intend to stay for more than three months.

France has tens of thousands of Roma living in squatter camps. There are about 1000 around Grenoble near where I live (official figures, probably more, there are dozen of camps all over town now)

BidonvilleRoms11CreditDelphineChappaz-38

allibert_3.jpg

camp-ile-verte-e1418764655960.jpg

So the idea that they "send them back" is not true. Paris has a huge squatter camp right in the town center at the moment of north african illegal immigrants.

O4z7jlU.jpg

conseil-paris-devrait-d%C3%A9cider-l%C3%

and here's another roma camp just outside the center

7821403008850.jpg

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I can't help but think that this whole thing is one big herring.

1. Who says we can't change entitlements. They just have to be clever about doing it so it doesn't discriminate against EU citizens. e.g. a minimum residency requirement. You can still give out discretionary sums in times of real hardships.

2. Never forget the 'issue' of non EU immigration. Why don't they change that or tell us exactly what elements they can't change ...e.g. marriages.

The link below leading to pdf file SN06077.pdf (stated to be from the House of Commons Library) gives a lot of immigration/emigration/net migration etc information upto and including 2013 with a breakdown of a lot of the figures. It also breaks the figures down between eu/non eu and UK.

Unlike some statistical reports it's quite clearly presented.

From 2012 upto 2015 the total figures have been on a strong upwards trend.

Last updated: 26 February 2015

http://

www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.parliament.uk%2Fbriefing-papers%2FSN06077.pdf&ei=XWxRVcefJIOd7gaT-YOgBA&usg=AFQjCNF4IZQb803o6BlbsrYZCxuxmeO0jw&bvm=bv.92885102,d.ZGU

(why they don't update all the report's figures to 2015 is just one of those puzzles - as the figures are available)

Just for information on the official figures. It's generally based on ONS figures and there is a note in the above pdf file as follows.

This information is provided to Members of Parliament in support of their parliamentary duties and is not intended to address the specific circumstances of any particular individual. It should not be relied upon as being up to date; the law or policies may have changed since it was last updated; and it should not be relied upon as legal or professional advice or as a substitute for it. A suitably qualified professional should be consulted if specific advice or information is required.

This information is provided subject to our general terms and conditions which are available online or may be provided on request in hard copy. Authors are available to discuss the content of this briefing with Members and their staff, but not with the general public.

Edited by billybong

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All member states can insist on EU citizens from other member states be able to support themselves.

Spain does - to get residence you have to show proof of legal contracted work or that each person, including children, has health insurance (if under state retirement age) and about 600€ being paid into a Spanish bank per month and / or 6000€ savings per person in a Spanish bank (depending on area / local interpretation).

More stuff here (pages 23 & 24)

http://ec.europa.eu/justice/policies/citizenship/docs/guide_free_movement_low.pdf

And here

http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/getting-the-facts-straight-eu-rights-to-reside-in-another-member-state-eu-benefit-claimants-and-nhs-treatment-entitlement/

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/11637644/Poland-definite-no-to-UK-plans-to-curb-migrants-benefits.html

Why is Poland rejecting its nationals? I suspect they know most Polish in the UK are frontier workers, and there's a ton of money flowing from the UK to Poland, all enabled by benefit props. Take those props away, and suddenly it's not viable for many (most?) Polish workers to be in the UK.

No surprises there then, We want to stop subsiding your country Mr Poland, We dont think that is right Mr UK. Did Mr Cameron honestly expect anything else.

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You could argue it's right for us to subsidise Poland - a token 'thank you' to their taxpayers for educating and housing our Baristas, Warehouse Operatives, Builders etc... until they were old enough to take up their employment here.

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You could argue it's right for us to subsidise Poland - a token 'thank you' to their taxpayers for educating and housing our Baristas, Warehouse Operatives, Builders etc... until they were old enough to take up their employment here.

lol

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It's worth noting Cameron's party took us into the EU in the first place (70's) and declassified cabinet papers show they government and civil servants hid the true agenda from the public. Labour voted against it initially but now are the party of the EU and are solely to blame? It's just smoke and mirrors.

Personally I doubt we'll leave the as it helps to financially and democratically waterboard us further :P

On the next stop of the tour Cameroon will hear "nein, nein, nein"

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