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Trampa501

Stiglitz:the Uk Economy Is Not Doing Well

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Isnt this the agreement carried out in secret by Global firms, excluding scrutiny by the very people now voting it through?

Correct. Although this treaty relates to an Asian related economic pact - and separate from the, albeit similar, Transatlantic treaty.

In any case the fact that even elected representatives are being kept largely in the dark about the details of the treaty they are voting on, and trusting in their leader to do the right thing, and they are accepting this state of affairs is mind boggling! Clearly knowledge of history is not one of their strong points. At this rate it wouldn't surprise me to see them next being urged, by their leader, to vote in support of an Enabling Act! :ph34r:

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For any economy to grow you have to have;

Increased government borrowing

Increased business borrowing

Increased personal debt

Savings being spent

Earn more from export than import

If you asked most people would say (or have been conditioned to say):

Increased government spending = bad, increased personal debt = bad, savings being spent = bad

So that leaves business borrowing and a positive balance of trade as being the "good" ways an economy can grow.

And by those measures we've had no recovery at all.

The balance of trade / balance of payments are the worst ever and business investment is amongst the lowest in the world as a percentage of gdp.

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He comes directly to our meeting from the BBC, where he was on Start the Week. Another guest was Steve Hilton, former adviser to David Cameron, who has written a book arguing that government and corporations have become alienating because they are too big and lack human scale. It was obvious, even across the radio waves, that Stiglitz was underwhelmed by Hilton.

“He was just a bundle of platitudes,” says Stiglitz. “It was a little painful having to be there. And the guy who ran the programme [Andrew Marr] did not do a good job this time. He seemed to be taken up with these platitudes. How are you going to solve big problems? Devolution? Watch the iniquities that occur at the local level where you have powerful elites.”

Stiglitz describes one of the main reasons for the failure of British politics.

As a public intellectual, alas, Stiglitz is not a great public speaker. He covers a lot of ground but he wanders, loses his thread, and doesn’t really hammer home his argument. There are plenty of graphs and data and information, most of it concerning the US, and it’s damning stuff. But what there isn’t is a compelling vision of how to put things right.

Guardian interviewer demands that Stiglitz be full of platitudes - like the failed British politicians.

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For any economy to grow you have to have;

Increased government borrowing

Increased business borrowing

Increased personal debt

Savings being spent

Earn more from export than import

If you asked most people would say (or have been conditioned to say):

Increased government spending = bad, increased personal debt = bad, savings being spent = bad

So that leaves business borrowing and a positive balance of trade as being the "good" ways an economy can grow.

And by those measures we've had no recovery at all.

The balance of trade / balance of payments are the worst ever and business investment is amongst the lowest in the world as a percentage of gdp.

For an economy to "grow" (gdp terms) you need:

* More people working

* More output from the people working

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When did this austerity he mentions happen.

Local government - 40% reduction in central government grants to local authorities

2% reduction in capital expenditure

Real term reductions in pay for every public sector worker

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Stiglitz describes one of the main reasons for the failure of British politics.

Guardian interviewer demands that Stiglitz be full of platitudes - like the failed British politicians.

Indeed. Stiglitz is an intellectual, an academic economist. hes not a politician peddling lies

Marr is, what, a BBC mouthpiece?

hilton is, what, a policital spin doctor

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For any economy to grow you have to have;

Increased government borrowing

Increased business borrowing

Increased personal debt

Savings being spent

Earn more from export than import

If you asked most people would say (or have been conditioned to say):

Increased government spending = bad, increased personal debt = bad, savings being spent = bad

So that leaves business borrowing and a positive balance of trade as being the "good" ways an economy can grow.

And by those measures we've had no recovery at all.

The balance of trade / balance of payments are the worst ever and business investment is amongst the lowest in the world as a percentage of gdp.

sorry, but Government spending is not the same as Government borrowing in its effect.

You are mixing your terms.

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Local government - 40% reduction in central government grants to local authorities

2% reduction in capital expenditure

Real term reductions in pay for every public sector worker

are you sure that isnt 40% reduction in the increase to grants, and 2% reduction in the increase of capital expenditure?

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Indeed. Stiglitz is an intellectual, an academic economist. hes not a politician peddling lies Marr is, what, a BBC mouthpiece? hilton is, what, a policital spin doctor

Stiglitz is aware that rentier economies can't grow on their own, but in the UK rent seeking has become the means and the end!

Amazed the MSM are not making more of this, but currently only Paul Mason of Channel Four, Ben Judah and a few others are aware of the real problem.

Andrew Marr, wouldn't know rent seeking if it hit him in the face

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Stiglitz is an intellectual, an academic economist. hes not a politician peddling lies

Senior people in any field are politicians.

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I think his conclusions are sound - the UK is bankrupt, manifestly - but his policy proposals are absurd. At the end of the day, Stiglitz is just another one-parameter Keynesian hoon propounding the standard nonsense about equilibrium and aggregate demand. Empirical evidence for equilibrium has never been produced for any real market.

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I think his conclusions are sound - the UK is bankrupt, manifestly - but his policy proposals are absurd. At the end of the day, Stiglitz is just another one-parameter Keynesian hoon propounding the standard nonsense about equilibrium and aggregate demand. Empirical evidence for equilibrium has never been produced for any real market.

Stiglitz is among the growing number of people that see economic rent seeking as the issue. We must euthanise rentierism.

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I think his conclusions are sound - the UK is bankrupt, manifestly - but his policy proposals are absurd. At the end of the day, Stiglitz is just another one-parameter Keynesian hoon propounding the standard nonsense about equilibrium and aggregate demand. Empirical evidence for equilibrium has never been produced for any real market.

".I asked a highly regarded macroeconomist in New York (who preferred not to be named for professional reasons) what other economists thought of Stiglitz. Hes absolutely brilliant, he said, with a very creative mind. He fully deserved his Nobel prize, but like [Paul] Krugman hes increasingly inclined to pontificate beyond his knowledge or experience. Hes a great theorist, and his work on inequality is respected, but hes not someone youd ever go to for policy advice. "

Interesting that there a growing concensus from economists of both left and right wing persuasions identifying a property bubble and it's imminent reckoning following qe in the uk

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Local government - 40% reduction in central government grants to local authorities

2% reduction in capital expenditure

Real term reductions in pay for every public sector worker

Still overpaying people but not as much as they were overpaid before does not equal austerity.

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Stiglitz is disappointed with President Obama. “He was captured by the bankers,” he complains,

Unfortunately, if anyone in a political party were to say that, they would get called an anti-semite, jew hater and so forth...can't actually see the bankers without viewing them as a homogenuous group thanks to the issue's surrounding international Jewry and banking in the 1930s.

Of course, it's endemic in human nature, usury and fraud, not just jews. Japan had the same problems and I doubt they would allow their banking system to be captured by international Jewry.

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For an economy to "grow" (gdp terms) you need:

* More people working

* More output from the people working

Nope Timak is right, with a debt-based monetary system such as ours, there can be no GDP growth without growth of debt.

More people working is a consequence of more debt-money circulating in the system, not the cause of it.

All money in circulation in the UK (except cash) was created as debt.

Edited by The Eagle

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We need more of those eastern Europeans it's costing the tax payer £10K each per year to work in the UK - to help increase the GDP slightly, while decreasing GDP per capita slightly. Yes, that's the ticket.

Edited by canbuywontbuy

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