Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

interestrateripoff

Police Could Seize Illegal Workers' Wages Under Tory Plans

Recommended Posts

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32816454

Police would be able to seize the wages of illegal workers as proceeds of crime under government plans to be set out in next week's Queen's Speech.

PM David Cameron will say on Thursday that it has become "too easy" for migrants not entitled to be in the country to exploit loopholes.

At the moment, firms can be fined up to £20,000 for employing illegal workers.

Labour said more needed to be done to protect the country's borders, and called for laws to tackle exploitation.

The proposal to treat the wages of illegal workers as proceeds of crime forms part of what the prime minister will say is a "tougher but fairer" approach to immigration that will be adopted by the Conservative government.

However, the scale of the challenge facing ministers in reducing levels of legal immigration will be highlighted again on Thursday when the latest official figures on net migration are published.

Just fecking hilarious, the banker criminals in the City get to make millions and lose none of their money or wages and probably the poorest paid workers in the country are going to be taxed 100% by the government.

Got to love moral hazard, why aren't we seeing laws that if you run a bank and it goes bankrupt the directors get taxed 100% for their failure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32816454

Just fecking hilarious, the banker criminals in the City get to make millions and lose none of their money or wages and probably the poorest paid workers in the country are going to be taxed 100% by the government.

Got to love moral hazard, why aren't we seeing laws that if you run a bank and it goes bankrupt the directors get taxed 100% for their failure.

No doubt the dumb unthinking masses will lap up this populist move.......without realising the implications of setting such a legal precedent. And those few who do will no doubt spout the usual "oh but such laws/powers will never be used against ordinary law abiding citizens it's only for illegals....".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Got to love moral hazard, why aren't we seeing laws that if you run a bank and it goes bankrupt the directors get taxed 100% for their failure.

Sounds like they're redefining "proceeds of crime" so that may yet come to pass. Be lovely to see some bankers really lose their shirts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like they're redefining "proceeds of crime" so that may yet come to pass. Be lovely to see some bankers really lose their shirts.

Could even be widened to include BTL LL who haven't paid their taxes. :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Somehow this seems to link in with the inflation/deflation issue and also the growing demand of resources within the public sector.

Falling wages and growing demand on social services?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like they're redefining "proceeds of crime" so that may yet come to pass. Be lovely to see some bankers really lose their shirts.

I remember reading an article written by a banker, who said that before the financial crisis of 2007 they thought they were "masters of the universe" and untouchable.

Then TSHTF and they realised that they weren't untouchable and expected to suffer the full consequences of their actions. Then the bailouts happened and it became obvious that "we are indeed masters of the universe, something that I will never doubt again".

Wish I could find that article.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

in other news, The Government announces plans for obtaining fresh blood out of stones.

In all the jobs Ive applied for recently, I have had to provide proof of the right to work.

The people employing illegals have no systems in place, and why would they?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

....are not some of these people not paid in wages anyway....paid in kind, a bed for the night and food from the kitchen?....so what is there to seize?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why aren't they being given the powers to seize the profits made from exploiting these misfortunates? The desperate will always take risks, because they're desperate. it's the behaviours of the greedy that exploit them that need curbing....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32816454

Just fecking hilarious, the banker criminals in the City get to make millions and lose none of their money or wages and probably the poorest paid workers in the country are going to be taxed 100% by the government.

Got to love moral hazard, why aren't we seeing laws that if you run a bank and it goes bankrupt the directors get taxed 100% for their failure.

So back on topic, low skill immigration, especially illegal low skill immigration, drives down wages for the working class. From your post, you (and your friends in New Labour) appear to be perfectly happy with that.

The Labour Party have spent the past 20 years shafting the working classes by massively undermining their position in the labour market, all the while playing a game of class warfare charades. Your post (however valid your view of bankers might be) follows that line completely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32816454

Just fecking hilarious, the banker criminals in the City get to make millions and lose none of their money or wages and probably the poorest paid workers in the country are going to be taxed 100% by the government.

Got to love moral hazard, why aren't we seeing laws that if you run a bank and it goes bankrupt the directors get taxed 100% for their failure.

I would add a bit to my earlier reply.....

I recall a powerful moment/line at the very end of an old movie, 'Judgment at Nuremberg'. Featuring Spencer Tracy in the lead character sitting in judgement over indicted Nazi collaborating judiciary.

The leading such nazi figure (played by Burt Lancaster) shows remorse for his actions, for which he is finally convicted and imprisoned. He insists, in person to Tracy, he never suspected his initial illegal and immoral actions in support of the nazi regime, in the pre-war years, would lead to the mass murder that ultimately followed with the line "I never knew it would come to that".

The simple retort he got, provoking a stunned reaction, was that "it came to that the day you sentenced a man you knew to be innocent".

A similar situation is in danger of arising today. Not in that people are being sentenced for crimes they have not committed but rather that people who have committed crimes are knowingly not being prosecuted and/or punished. Such actions lead to the dangerous erosion of the system of law and justice that act as the pillars that support our civilised society.

If these crimes and frauds, which ultimately impact millions of people, continue to go effectively unpunished at the arbitrary behest of politicians and other unelected technocrats, then history tells us how this will end.

Years from now when people are being summarily strung up from lampposts by mobs and vigilantes, very possibly in actuality and not just figuratively speaking, because the wrath of the masses finally reaches boiling point at having been treated unfairly for so long, we will be able to look back and say that it all started when the powers that be chose not to prosecute a banker/businessman/etc they knew to be guilty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's right that people working illegally should be tracked down and prosecuted.

However if they try and deport people before they appeal, this isn't following due process (this is a fundamental tenet of a civilised society) which I think is more of a concern as to the direction this government is going in particularly if they get rid of the Human Rights Act and withdraw from the EU.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So back on topic, low skill immigration, especially illegal low skill immigration, drives down wages for the working class. From your post, you (and your friends in New Labour) appear to be perfectly happy with that.

The Labour Party have spent the past 20 years shafting the working classes by massively undermining their position in the labour market, all the while playing a game of class warfare charades. Your post (however valid your view of bankers might be) follows that line completely.

I'm not sure where you are getting that from, my point is we are confiscating money earned from poor immigrants. Yes they shouldn't be here, but if you tax them 100% they are effectively slave labour. Are you therefore in favour of slavery?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its right that people acting illegally should be tracked down and prosecuted.... Rule of law.

but not deported before they have a chance to appeal. This kind of thing seems to have been a theme running through the last government for example. They'll put roadblocks up to prevent people from accessing justice (e.g excessive charges to access work tribunals (couple of grand)) or there'll hurriedly retroactively change laws when rulings go against them (poundland case).

It's almost like they have contempt for the judiciary, or the role of the judiciary in society.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

but not deported before they have a chance to appeal. This kind of thing seems to have been a theme running through the last government for example. They'll put roadblocks up to prevent people from accessing justice (e.g excessive charges to access work tribunals (couple of grand)) or there'll hurriedly retroactively change laws when rulings go against them (poundland case).

It's almost like they have contempt for the judiciary, or the role of the judiciary in society.

They do have contempt for the Judiciary, always have. Unless it goes well for them...

It's right that people working illegally should be tracked down and prosecuted.

However if they try and deport people before they appeal, this isn't following due process (this is a fundamental tenet of a civilised society) which I think is more of a concern as to the direction this government is going in particularly if they get rid of the Human Rights Act and withdraw from the EU.

I think that's the land grab that's going on with the Human rights act. Be deplorable if they get away with that. However, I don't think we'll leave the EU, never have. Too many bright folk about and whilst I am not discounting that 50% of the population are less intelligent than the average person and that the average joe aint that bright, I genuinely think it's a smaller group of folk who want to leave than want to stay.

I believe that a lot of illegal workers live at subsistence levels and send any surplus wages back home.

So there would be little to seize.

This, in spades.

My issue is letting in thousands of Indians on the pretext of not having enough skilled IT folk. I am currently in a contract in which 50-60% of the contractors are Indian and about 80% are NFFP. How are they shutting this crap down?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Best treat the causes not the symptoms.... Far to much money is made from the disadvantaged.... The system is slow, and ineffective, loopholes and delay tactics....either invest in effective in out border controls, see that there are clear rules and laws that are adeared to or allow yet another amnesty to make the illegal legal and start again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would add a bit to my earlier reply.....

I recall a powerful moment/line at the very end of an old movie, 'Judgement at Nuremberg'. Featuring Spencer Tracy in the lead character sitting in judgement over indicted Nazi collaborating judiciary.

The leading such nazi figure (played by Burt Lancaster) shows remorse for his actions, for which he is finally convicted and imprisoned. He insists, in person to Tracy, he never suspected his initial illegal and immoral actions in support of the nazi regime, in the pre-war years, would lead to the mass murder that ultimately followed with the line "I never knew it would come to that".

The simple retort he got, provoking a stunned reaction, was that "it came to that the day you sentenced a man you knew to be innocent".

A similar situation is in danger of arising today. Not in that people are being sentenced for crimes they have not committed but rather that people who have committed crimes are knowingly not being prosecuted and/or punished. Such actions lead to the dangerous erosion of the system of law and justice that act as the pillars that support our civilised society.

If these crimes and frauds, which ultimately impact millions of people, continue to go effectively unpunished at the arbitrary behest of politicians and other unelected technocrats, then history tells us how this will end.

Years from now when people are being summarily strung up from lampposts by mobs and vigilantes, very possibly in actuality and not just figuratively speaking, because the wrath of the masses finally reaches boiling point at having been treated unfairly for so long, we will be able to look back and say that it all started when the powers that be chose not to prosecute a banker/businessman/etc they knew to be guilty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure where you are getting that from, my point is we are confiscating money earned from poor immigrants. Yes they shouldn't be here, but if you tax them 100% they are effectively slave labour. Are you therefore in favour of slavery?

Saying that these people are slaves is complete nonsense. Slaves do not have a choice to work. These people have chosen to move to the UK and knowingly break the law.

The central point is that these people are lowering wages for the least well off in society and they should be stopped.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Following on from another recent 'well thought out' policy (7 days a week doctors) I couldn't believe when I heard this on the news so:-

The govt want to be seen to be doing something but have failed to think this one through i.e. how are you going to get the money (and how much will you spend getting it, our inspectors/immigration is undermanned as it is so how is this really going to work?...why would an immigrant worker go and tell the authorities if they risk loosing all of their money (and be deported)?....the though 'turkey' and 'voting for Christmas' comes to mind....seems that this is a 'law' that will self manage itself.

The govt always 'goes' for the easy target i.e. the weak person at the bottom of the pile that doesn't have the education or finance to defend himself...whay are they not going for the exploiter who is CURRENTLY breaking the law?...Go in, find illegal workers with not paperwork, commandeer the whole business and sell off all the assets...As a business if you don't have the paperwork you wont have a legal leg to stand on.

If it does work it will be brilliant...lots more jobs!...all be it minimum wage, zero hour contract jobs.

This is just a smoke screen to avoid the real issues i.e. a failing economy despite what we are told.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

richc...sorry disagree, these people are in a position where they need to earn a salary and are being exploited BY the people who are employing them illegally AND the govt is allowing it to happen by not addressing the real issue i.e. the employers who have a choice...pay the minimum wage OR employ an illegal so that you can pay even less....and before anybody says it, if the business cannot afford to pay the minimum wage than it should 'fold' as its not much of a business AND not really contributing to the wealth of the nation anyway!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Illegal immigrants have often been massively exploited before they even get here, by the people (usually their ow nationality) who have promised them well paid jobs and demanded huge fees, often putting their families deeply in debt. They may not all end up like the poor Morecambe cockle-pickers, but I suspect many are in pretty dire circs.

The only answer can surely be to hit those who employ them hard. It was at least ten years ago now, but someone near here, Middle Eastern origin, was having a large extension built on his house. The labour, which could have been Filipino but I never found out, was dropped off every day from a big white van driven by a huge and intimidating looking bloke with an Irish accent. Every time I walked past the house the workers had a scared and hunted look. I often felt I should have a word with the Old Bill, since I was sure they were illegal, but I didn't, because they always looked frightened and I felt sorry for them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a novel idea....commandeer the assets of the illegal employers...sell them...and use the money to employ additional border officers to stop/check illegals coming in at 'our' borders...no, thought that one was a little too logical!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • The Prime Minister stated that there were three Brexit options available to the UK:   42 members have voted

    1. 1. Which of the Prime Minister's options would you choose?


      • Leave with the negotiated deal
      • Remain
      • Leave with no deal

    Please sign in or register to vote in this poll. View topic


×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.