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Anyone Know Where The £12Bn Of Welfare Cuts Will Come From?


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Seems there are two types of ESA and it is group 2 up for scrapping? Am I right in this assumption?

1. Support Group - don't need to attend job-based interviews

2. Work related activity group - need to attend some sort of job interview

Does anyone know which group professional alcoholics are put into?

I think you are right, yes - from the BBC story:

It describes the Employment and Support Allowance as a "passive" benefit which does not "incentivise" people to find a job, and proposes abolishing the work-related activity group (WRAG) category.

If scrapped, weekly payments would drop nearly £30 from £102.15, bringing it in line with Jobseeker's Allowance.

Also some nice spin:

The paper also proposes renaming the assessment tests "employment capability assessments", rather than work capability assessments, in order to focus attention on job-seeking, not benefit-seeking.

It says removing the £30 top-up for WRAG claimants would give people less reason to worry that they were getting the "wrong" outcome from their assessment.

In other words if you wanted to get ESA instead of JSA, but are refused, it doesn't matter because the amount of money will be the same anyway! No need to worry!

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I just tried to get my state pension estimate from the link to the pension service website. For some reason I can't enter some characters in lower case for my password. As the password is case sensitive it kind of stops me getting in.

Is this a known problem or just another F#ck up by our joined up government in getting us online?

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Poor Samantha two teenage boys and a 5-year old girl. Still not to worry I will pay the rent and pay for the kids so the dad doesn't have to ... work? don't worry love the hours are poor for part-time work so I wouldn't bother if I was you .... oh that's right you don't bother.

Problem with cutting HB is that it will affect landlords as well.

In one of the most expensive cities in the world.

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I just tried to get my state pension estimate from the link to the pension service website. For some reason I can't enter some characters in lower case for my password. As the password is case sensitive it kind of stops me getting in.

Is this a known problem or just another F#ck up by our joined up government in getting us online?

Enter the password in all uppercase.

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ESA to be abolished?

Well I`m on ESA but don`t get any money as my wife has savings.

I do get Industrial Injuries disablement benefit (for life!) which is likely to impact new claimants if they change things.

I can`t say I`m looking forward to the 12th....

Usually they phase these changes in to allow for people to make adjustments. So won't come into effect on the 12th

Then again think we are being played. Scare the living daylights out of everyone with a drip drip of scary news, then the actual budget won't seem to bad.

Then again they have all those boomer election bribes to pay for.

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Tried that, thanks for the suggestion, it now tells me an error has occurred on the system please contact the Helpdesk.

Ah well that's a job for tomorrow.

I reset the password several times trying to make it work before I worked out the uppercase thing. It's a shit system.

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So Housing Benefit and ESA in the firing line now? I was hoping for major cuts to Tax Credits announced next wednesday.

If they cut ESA from £101 p/w to the £73.40 p/w jobseekers equivalent then also impose a 10% reduction in Housing Benefit then those on ESA will be hit double £30 loss on ESA + have to find 10% of their rent from the £73.40.

I suppose that just evens it out and puts everyone in the same boat but failure to reduce tax credits as well will just result in more injustice.

Edited by workingpoor
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So Housing Benefit and ESA in the firing line now? I was hoping for major cuts to Tax Credits announced next wednesday.

If they cut ESA from £101 p/w to the £73.40 p/w jobseekers equivalent then also impose a 10% reduction in Housing Benefit then those on ESA will be hit double £30 loss on ESA + have to find 10% of their rent from the £73.40.

I suppose that just evens it out and puts everyone in the same boat but failure to reduce tax credits as well will just result in more injustice.

Technically, you do not have to cut tax credits, just bump on the qualifying hours.

I guess we'll see.

My guess, as always, is big increase in tax credit hours, 10% of housing benefit, tweaking around on the disabilty.

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Just watched Osbourne on the Andrew Marr show snippets of wednesdays budget revealed:

Osbourne said that they HAD found all the 12bn they required from welfare.

Benefit cap will be £23000 in london and lower outside london (said will have to wait till wed for the lower limit)

Tax credits have to be cut otherwise i would have to cut oublic services.

and.......

Osborne said housing benefit goes up and up and you have the rents going up and up and we need to look at that!

Be a rip roaring rollercoaster of a budget on wednesday.

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Osbourne said that they HAD found all the 12bn they required from welfare.....

Osborne said housing benefit goes up and up and you have the rents going up and up and we need to look at that!

I think he means they will look at it and will do nothing. Why would they take money from their voters pockets when they have already found the 12Bn from the poor?

We all know that 'housing benefit' is just benefits for the rentier class. If 12Bn has been found already then Pensions and BTL landlord benefits are off the table.

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I think the plan is major cuts to tax credits, cuts to housing benefit and cuts to ESA. I could see £5 billion from tax credits, £3-4 billion from housing benefit and £2-3 billion from ESA.

Unless I read it wrong Frugal, the ESA cuts will go to those that don't have to attend job interviews (as mentioned t'other day I found out ESA is split into two camps, those who are fit for jobseeking and those who aren't i.e. the ones left to rot on the system) and not those that do. But as usual, we'll see in a couple of days. Unless this is one of those items to be delay-revealed in the Autumn statement.

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Unless this is one of those items to be delay-revealed in the Autumn statement.

It's coming on wednesday "the whole welfare package" said Osbourne.

See the Andrew Marr show worth a watch today.

He did say "we will always protect the most vunerable in society" etc

but that could imply that if your found capable of jobseeking then your not vunerable.]

Edited by workingpoor
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Unless I read it wrong Frugal, the ESA cuts will go to those that don't have to attend job interviews (as mentioned t'other day I found out ESA is split into two camps, those who are fit for jobseeking and those who aren't i.e. the ones left to rot on the system) and not those that do. But as usual, we'll see in a couple of days. Unless this is one of those items to be delay-revealed in the Autumn statement.

Yes, it's the work related activity group (WRAG) that will have their benefits reduced to job seekers level. Basically by splitting the old incapacity benefit into two groups - those that cannot work for the forseeable future due to disability (Support Group) and those who will likely recover within a reasonable period of time and can prepare for a return to work (WRAG) - they are now able to effectively downgrade a whole tier of people to unemployment benefit levels which I believe was their intention all along.

After all those in the WRAG group are all scroungers and shirkers according to the government. Unfortunately there will be many people who didn't appeal the decision of being put in the WRAG group (when they should really have been in the support group) because of the onerous nature of applying for sickness benefits now (have a friend in this situation).

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http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/07/05/uk-britain-politics-osborne-idUKKCN0PF0AN20150705

Chancellor George Osborne on Sunday said he had found all 12 billion pounds of welfare cuts he needs as part of his plan to balance the budget by 2017/18, speaking ahead of his budget announcement on Wednesday.

The budget is Prime Minister David Cameron's Conservatives' clearest chance in almost two decades to remould Britain into a low-tax, small-state economy after an unexpectedly decisive election victory.

To meet his target, Osborne says he needs to cut the annual welfare bill by 12 billion pounds ($18.69 billion), make 13 billion pounds of departmental spending reductions, and to raise an extra 5 billion pounds by clamping down on tax evasion and avoidance.

"We have found that 12 billion pounds of savings in welfare that we said we'd be able to find," Osborne said on BBC television, without specifying full details. "We've got to have a welfare system that is fair to those who need it, but also fair to those who pay for it."

Signalling possible areas for cuts, he said tax credits, used to top up earnings for the low-paid, had become a "very, very expensive system" and that housing benefits were a "major component" of government spending.

But the opposition Labour Party warned against "self-defeating" spending cuts.

Interest charges to the bankers covered then?

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I think the plan is major cuts to tax credits, cuts to housing benefit and cuts to ESA. I could see £5 billion from tax credits, £3-4 billion from housing benefit and £2-3 billion from ESA.

Looks that way.However cuts to ESA wont work.If you go on ESA work section this is aimed at you get roughly £102.If you go on JSA instead but are down as having a disability you get £72 but also another rough £25 income support.So people on ESA who lose £30 a week simply drop off ESA,go onto JSA and end up getting the money back.So these cuts to ESA wont save much at all unless he also cuts the income support rates for someone with a disability,but he wont.The only people to lose would be people with a working partner.

I think tax credits will take a £6 billion hit up front.Child tax credit reduced to £38 a week and also something around working tax credit.The huge move would be to simply scrap working tax credit.Another big move would be to means test it from £1000 of earnings instead of £6400.

The cuts might be in the detail but there is no doubt they want to remove tax credits much lower down the income scale.I was told several years ago they wanted to make it so people on the NMW came off tax credits so they had an incentive to work more hours etc.We will see soon if they meant it.

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The cuts might be in the detail but there is no doubt they want to remove tax credits much lower down the income scale.I was told several years ago they wanted to make it so people on the NMW came off tax credits so they had an incentive to work more hours etc.We will see soon if they meant it.

What about those that work 45 hours per week but ineffective paid for 37 where their pay is actually something in the range £18-20K pa but due to working extra hours unpaid their hourly rate reduces to NMW. I've come across this quite a few times, mainly affecting employees of SME's where the attitude is, if you don't like it then walk!

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What about those that work 45 hours per week but ineffective paid for 37 where their pay is actually something in the range £18-20K pa but due to working extra hours unpaid their hourly rate reduces to NMW. I've come across this quite a few times, mainly affecting employees of SME's where the attitude is, if you don't like it then walk!

Well they will simply be based on their official hours and their total yearly wage.What needs to be watched for is things like where means testing starts.If its reduced from £6400 to say £1000 that in affect reduces tax credits for someone working 16 hours a week by £38 a week.Headline rates will be in the media,but clawback rates,means testing kick in levels and hours rules are much more important,but less understood.

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What needs to be watched for is things like where means testing starts.If its reduced from £6400 to say £1000 that in affect reduces tax credits for someone working 16 hours a week by £38 a week.Headline rates will be in the media,but clawback rates,means testing kick in levels and hours rules are much more important,but less understood.

I'll be watching for your posts about those rates :)

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I'll be watching for your posts about those rates :)

Indeed,il be digging into the budget documents for the small print.Hours,clawback rates,means testing levels kicking in and headline rates.I did hear from a good source they were looking at scrapping working tax credits or cutting them by big amounts (in half at 16 hours),and not cutting child tax credits by much but stopping at two children.That would be a really big cut,but just a rumour.It seems they have been going around and around how to do it so we will just have to wait and see.

I expect the single room rate will be increased to at least 50 and possibly 60 as well.I also heard a rumour they were thinking of extending single room rate to couples,though that is more difficult as MOs dont tend to offer couple room rates.

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Yes, it's the work related activity group (WRAG) that will have their benefits reduced to job seekers level. Basically by splitting the old incapacity benefit into two groups - those that cannot work for the forseeable future due to disability (Support Group) and those who will likely recover within a reasonable period of time and can prepare for a return to work (WRAG) - they are now able to effectively downgrade a whole tier of people to unemployment benefit levels which I believe was their intention all along.

After all those in the WRAG group are all scroungers and shirkers according to the government. Unfortunately there will be many people who didn't appeal the decision of being put in the WRAG group (when they should really have been in the support group) because of the onerous nature of applying for sickness benefits now (have a friend in this situation).

I asked before but nobody replied or knew. Which group are drugheads and alcoholics in? I'm guessing this one? They seem to be left to rot on the system with no compulsory requirement to attend treatment afaik

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