Venger Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Gordy was a fcking disaster for all parties - the UK, people on benefits, tax payers, Scotland etc etc. Agreed on all that. Hollowed it out. Although plenty have enjoyed the decade+ ride and even 'correction' reflation. Gordon Brown really is the architect of so much that has ruined the country. First he destroys private pensions which was the impetus for BTL and he brought in tax credits which has devalued work and qualifications. So much of what is happening now began just under 20 years ago when nuLabour rolled into town. Their legacy has been so destructive. Similar to other countries though; a front man of that era for new economics where end of boom-and-bust and new economics glory. WTF is up with all the math? Have we not all learned by now that math has been proven scientifically false? Math, gravity, physics, etc. have gone the way of alchemy and we have replaced them with new sciences like unicorn fartology, rainbowology, this time is differentology, etc… Come on, you are sounding like my grandpa. “Math”, “percentage”, “economy”, what quaint concepts… Horse, buggy, buggy whip kinda makes me chuckle… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durhamborn Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/jul/07/benefit-cuts-blackburn-child-working-tax-credits The Guardian doing their best already.Cant help but notice the claims are all on 16 hours/20 hours.The boss wont give anymore they say.Or is that i get no extra for working over 16 hours?.Why isnt the takeaway guy working during the day?.Could it be they love the fact they get £400 a week for working a few hours on an evening? Then the one saying the “The child tax credit just covers their (the childrens) clothes, food and milk." She gets £120 in child tax credits a week (and working tax credit).Does it really cost £120 a week to feed a 2.5 year old and 4 month old ? We spend £35 a week for food for two adults.Id say she probably spends £30 a week. Brown has trapped these people into the victim mentality.By design.Its exactly what he hoped would happen.Could Frank Field give a wry smile tomorrow as Osborne mentions him in the budget speech? The Guardian is simply showing here how tax credits have made people work the minimum and become enslaved to welfare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddog Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) Could be. However it could also be opposite and they go nuclear.They know they have two chances to be rid of Browns tax credits.Tomorrow,or after a Greek style event here. Labour is in tatters and they won an election on the promise of welfare cuts.I wouldnt be shocked if they say they have found more than £12 billion of welfare cuts. The headlines tomorrow wont mean anything.It will be the small print.As soon as those budget documents are published il be diving in.Id expect first cuts to kick in next April and be done in two goes. my logic would be do it all in one go, the next election is a long way off, no point doing a bit now and a bit in a couple of years.However could it be that our economy is utterly hooked on the consumption of these benefit receivers? As someone said earlier, the mind boggles to think what certain parts of the country would look like with tax credits. Edited July 7, 2015 by reddog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquid Goldfish Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) The scheme (Family Credit) which Tax Credits replaced cost £3bn in today's money. Tax Credits cost £30bn. It would be possible to make all of the £12bn welfare cuts just from Tax Credits and it would still be six times more generous than the old scheme. I still don't know what I think about slashing it - maybe Tax Credits are needed in our modern economy. But the numbers are very interesting. Edited July 7, 2015 by oldsport Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquid Goldfish Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/jul/07/benefit-cuts-blackburn-child-working-tax-credits The Guardian doing their best already.Cant help but notice the claims are all on 16 hours/20 hours.The boss wont give anymore they say.Or is that i get no extra for working over 16 hours?.Why isnt the takeaway guy working during the day?.Could it be they love the fact they get £400 a week for working a few hours on an evening? Then the one saying the “The child tax credit just covers their (the childrens) clothes, food and milk." She gets £120 in child tax credits a week (and working tax credit).Does it really cost £120 a week to feed a 2.5 year old and 4 month old ? We spend £35 a week for food for two adults.Id say she probably spends £30 a week. Brown has trapped these people into the victim mentality.By design.Its exactly what he hoped would happen.Could Frank Field give a wry smile tomorrow as Osborne mentions him in the budget speech? The Guardian is simply showing here how tax credits have made people work the minimum and become enslaved to welfare. Where does this leave Universal Credit? I think you said previously that if they made big changes to Tax Credits then that would mean that UC was being abandoned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crash2006 Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) The scheme (Family Credit) which Tax Credits replaced cost £3bn in today's money. Tax Credits cost £30bn. It would be possible to make all of the £12bn welfare cuts just from Tax Credits and it would still be six times more generous than the old scheme. I still don't know what I think about slashing it - maybe Tax Credits are needed in our modern economy. But the numbers are very interesting. companies want 16 to 20 hours a week is the magic number for them it saves them money and allows them to have greater flexibility. I wan to see a cut in MPs expenses I want to see a cut in MPs wages I want to see an increase in MPs pension age, none of this will ever happen. Edited July 7, 2015 by crash2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairyland Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/jul/07/benefit-cuts-blackburn-child-working-tax-credits The Guardian doing their best already.Cant help but notice the claims are all on 16 hours/20 hours.The boss wont give anymore they say.Or is that i get no extra for working over 16 hours?.Why isnt the takeaway guy working during the day?.Could it be they love the fact they get £400 a week for working a few hours on an evening? Then the one saying the “The child tax credit just covers their (the childrens) clothes, food and milk." She gets £120 in child tax credits a week (and working tax credit).Does it really cost £120 a week to feed a 2.5 year old and 4 month old ? We spend £35 a week for food for two adults.Id say she probably spends £30 a week. Brown has trapped these people into the victim mentality.By design.Its exactly what he hoped would happen.Could Frank Field give a wry smile tomorrow as Osborne mentions him in the budget speech? The Guardian is simply showing here how tax credits have made people work the minimum and become enslaved to welfare. £120 per week for 2 children is generous. Even Boden clothes and waitrose grocery won't cost that much. Makes me think why do people expect others to pay for their children. I understand there can be job losses and other accidents but year after year same expectations? Edited July 7, 2015 by Fairyland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durhamborn Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Where does this leave Universal Credit? I think you said previously that if they made big changes to Tax Credits then that would mean that UC was being abandoned. Very good question.The fact is there should be no mention of tax credits in the budget because everyone was supposed to be on Universal Credit by now.We need to see the small print in the budget document to see if the rates within UC are changed the same as any tax credit cuts.If they arent it says UC is never coming in for families. I still cant see UC coming in for families because it simply doesnt work.If they wanted to cover up the UC mess though they could scrap working tax credit,but keep Child tax Credit outside of UC. The big one for me tomorrow is to see how the changes interact.Lowering the level where tax credits are means tested from £6400 to £1000 is an affective 50% cut in child tax credit for anyone working 20 hours on NMW with two children without them even touching child tax credits.Do that and limit at two children job almost done. However that would make not working even more profitable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 my logic would be do it all in one go, the next election is a long way off, no point doing a bit now and a bit in a couple of years. However could it be that our economy is utterly hooked on the consumption of these benefit receivers? As someone said earlier, the mind boggles to think what certain parts of the country would look like with tax credits. Not where I earn money, so slash it, sick of carrying people to better incomes (or spending inclinations at least) than my own. The scheme (Family Credit) which Tax Credits replaced cost £3bn in today's money. Tax Credits cost £30bn. It would be possible to make all of the £12bn welfare cuts just from Tax Credits and it would still be six times more generous than the old scheme. I still don't know what I think about slashing it - maybe Tax Credits are needed in our modern economy. But the numbers are very interesting. Am I missing something but if demand reduces (because people don't have the benefits or income to keep demand up) won't prices fall? Isn't that the magical supply and demand argument we are always hearing about. Bring it on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gf3 Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 I've never had it satisfactorily explained to me why disabled people need more money. Normally if you ask the question you either get called names but don't receive an answer, or people claim that they deserve it as some kind of cosmic compensation for the misfortune of their circumstances. But I don't understand on a practical level why their day to day costs should be higher. I agree. Give the disabled everything they need except money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wherebee Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/jul/07/benefit-cuts-blackburn-child-working-tax-credits The Guardian doing their best already.Cant help but notice the claims are all on 16 hours/20 hours.The boss wont give anymore they say.Or is that i get no extra for working over 16 hours?.Why isnt the takeaway guy working during the day?.Could it be they love the fact they get £400 a week for working a few hours on an evening? Then the one saying the “The child tax credit just covers their (the childrens) clothes, food and milk." She gets £120 in child tax credits a week (and working tax credit).Does it really cost £120 a week to feed a 2.5 year old and 4 month old ? We spend £35 a week for food for two adults.Id say she probably spends £30 a week. Brown has trapped these people into the victim mentality.By design.Its exactly what he hoped would happen.Could Frank Field give a wry smile tomorrow as Osborne mentions him in the budget speech? The Guardian is simply showing here how tax credits have made people work the minimum and become enslaved to welfare. Plus, I note the prevalence of non-native names in all the case studies. That'll be the economic benefit of immigration effect trumpeted by lefties for the past 30 years - we just misunderstood that they really did mean BENEFITS. If all those in the news story had never come into the country, or were deported, the average wealth and quality of life would lift. The evidence is undeniable. So glad I am not in the UK paying taxes to support the parasitical structure. I am happy to pay taxes in Hong Kong, as they really have a system that rewards hard work from taxi drivers up. By the way, I don't blame the individuals at all - they are doing what is right for their family. 16 hours, tax credits, child benefit, etc etc, as opposed to a mud hut in a Pakistan winter. I do blame the poisonous left in setting up and open borders benefit culture, and the self immolating right who just love the cheap labour for their plastering and cleaning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 'There’s never any money left' Threat of welfare cuts alarms Blackburn families Summer budget 2015 What to expect from George OsborneWhilst the current system is unsustainable just what do they think will happen to GDP if you reduce the income of people who spend it all? How many jobs are dependent on welfare payments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 'There’s never any money left' Threat of welfare cuts alarms Blackburn families Summer budget 2015 What to expect from George OsborneWhilst the current system is unsustainable just what do they think will happen to GDP if you reduce the income of people who spend it all? How many jobs are dependent on welfare payments. I thnk Wetherspoons will suffer. Poundland will go bust. The UK balance of payments will reverse, cos all the fckers I know on tax credits have 3 (im not joking) foreign holidays a year. And there will a crash in my home town of Whitby, as all the skanky fckers from 'boro will no longer have any money to p1s up the wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Cuts aborted. Gidiot made them up to win election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
workingpoor Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) Its a load of sh*t. Cuts strung out to 2018 pace slowed due to public pressure and some crap about increased tax revenues. http://news.sky.com/story/1514982/budget-to-slow-pace-of-welfare-cuts-sky-sources Budget To Slow Pace Of Welfare Cuts: Sky Sources The Budget will reveal the timetable for £12bn welfare cuts by 2017/18 has been extended by at least a year, Sky News understands. George Osborne has already said he has found the £12bn, but Sky sources say the full amount will now be delivered over a longer timeframe than announced in the March Budget and envisaged before the election. This is partly because buoyant tax revenues and new Office of Budget Responsibility projections mean the Chancellor can meet his fiscal mandate without making the welfare cuts within two years. But there is also some pushback in Whitehall and internationally against too rapid a pace in cuts. The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) warned the two-year timetable would have an "impact on growth" this month. On housing benefit too, extra time will allow housebuilding to increase and temper the rise in rents and housing benefits. Senior sources in Whitehall suggested that the welfare cuts by 2017/18 would amount to around £8bn - still substantial and focused on housing benefit and tax credits. Edited July 7, 2015 by workingpoor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pl1 Posted July 7, 2015 Author Share Posted July 7, 2015 Cuts aborted. Gidiot made them up to win election. http://news.sky.com/story/1514982/budget-to-slow-pace-of-welfare-cuts-sky-sources Oh here we go. As a previous poster said, if he was ever going to get away with massive cuts it would be during a budget as far away from the next election as possible. How good is Faisal Islam for "sources"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
workingpoor Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) its ok it's still on BBC has it BBC political editor Nick Robinson said Mr Osborne would unveil proposals on Wednesday for £8bn of cuts by 2017/8 and a further £4bn by 2018/9. The first post-election Budget is also likely to cover Sunday trading, inheritance tax and social housing. The Tories have not yet said where the bulk of the £12bn in welfare savings they have pledged to make will come from. But BBC Newsnight understands tax credits will be reduced for families with more than two children. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33437115 Edited July 7, 2015 by workingpoor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtickle Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 But BBC Newsnight understands tax credits will be reduced for families with more than two children. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33437115 No good. Needs to be reduced for all cases otherwise everyone will then have exactly two children and we're back to square one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
workingpoor Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 The measure, which would apply to new families coming into the system, would save £1.4bn. Predictable as usual there will be no "cuts" just more tinkering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 The measure, which would apply to new families coming into the system, would save £1.4bn. Predictable as usual there will be no "cuts" just more tinkering. No, you're wrong. There will be cuts. They will happen this year. There will probably be more than 12bln. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 The BBC 'cuts slowed' is like their election predictions. They are reading what they want to happen into the void. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snugglybear Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 The BBC 'cuts slowed' is like their election predictions. They are reading what they want to happen into the void. Sky News is saying the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
workingpoor Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 "we must give time for businesses to prepare to pay the living wage" of some similar guff. i must be psychic. The rationale for slowing the pace of cuts is clear - a slower timetable on withdrawal of tax credits, for example, will allow for more fundamental reforms to raise low pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durhamborn Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 I think pushing it over three years points to cuts in working tax credit in phases.If reports are correct and they limit child tax credits to two children thats a big move (and needed). Like iv said if alongside that they also slash working tax credits as looks likely this will mean big cuts.Watch for where they start means testing as well.Its £6400 now,any cuts in that downwards are in affect a £410 cut in tax credits per £1000 lower means test level. We could be looking at working tax credit going altogether or down to very low levels in three phases.Political speak will be to allow people to find more hours etc. I think its almost certain as well the freeze on increases in working age benefits will last at least three years,and not two.The problem these cuts have though is they dont affect anyone not working apart from the freezes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
council dweller Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 This abortion has happened over the past few days. Has something happened in China and Greece during this time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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