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SarahBell

Teachers Who Take Their Kids Out Of School...

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Well I've just paid my £240 fine from Manchester City Council for taking my children out of school for 7 days. To travel to high altitude into the mountains of Peru. To mix with the mountain folk and learn about their way of life. To work with the Planeterra, a women's cooperative which promotes better opportunities in the region for women. To visit ancient inca ruins culminating in a guided tour by a genuine Incan warrior of Machu Picchu. Not to mention the cultural tour of Lima we did which educated them about the war with Chile. We spent 12 days (the rest was Easter holidays) at the most educational, fantastic place on earth. As a teacher myself I feel those 7 days away from school did not jeopardise my children's education in any way, it ultimately enhanced it. Therefore, I pay my fine of £240 and pat myself on the back for investing in my children's education and their future. I'd do it again tomorrow!

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So the 30 kids she normally teaches have benefited how?

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On FB on the MCC facebook page

Well I've just paid my £240 fine from Manchester City Council for taking my children out of school for 7 days. To travel to high altitude into the mountains of Peru. To mix with the mountain folk and learn about their way of life. To work with the Planeterra, a women's cooperative which promotes better opportunities in the region for women. To visit ancient inca ruins culminating in a guided tour by a genuine Incan warrior of Machu Picchu. Not to mention the cultural tour of Lima we did which educated them about the war with Chile. We spent 12 days (the rest was Easter holidays) at the most educational, fantastic place on earth. As a teacher myself I feel those 7 days away from school did not jeopardise my children's education in any way, it ultimately enhanced it. Therefore, I pay my fine of £240 and pat myself on the back for investing in my children's education and their future. I'd do it again tomorrow!

--

So the 30 kids she normally teaches have benefited how?

She might teach in a private school or her children's School has different holidays to her.

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Well I've just paid my £240 fine from Manchester City Council for taking my children out of school for 7 days. To travel to high altitude into the mountains of Peru. To mix with the mountain folk and learn about their way of life. To work with the Planeterra, a women's cooperative which promotes better opportunities in the region for women. To visit ancient inca ruins culminating in a guided tour by a genuine Incan warrior of Machu Picchu. Not to mention the cultural tour of Lima we did which educated them about the war with Chile. We spent 12 days (the rest was Easter holidays) at the most educational, fantastic place on earth. As a teacher myself I feel those 7 days away from school did not jeopardise my children's education in any way, it ultimately enhanced it. Therefore, I pay my fine of £240 and pat myself on the back for investing in my children's education and their future. I'd do it again tomorrow!

--

So the 30 kids she normally teaches have benefited how?

Well done you

I hate most teachers - but you are the exception that proves the rule - that £240 is probably the best money you'll ever spend and your children will remember it more than any xbox (or whatever) or a week in school was meant to cover on the national curriculum

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Well I've just paid my £240 fine from Manchester City Council for taking my children out of school for 7 days. To travel to high altitude into the mountains of Peru. To mix with the mountain folk and learn about their way of life. To work with the Planeterra, a women's cooperative which promotes better opportunities in the region for women. To visit ancient inca ruins culminating in a guided tour by a genuine Incan warrior of Machu Picchu. Not to mention the cultural tour of Lima we did which educated them about the war with Chile. We spent 12 days (the rest was Easter holidays) at the most educational, fantastic place on earth. As a teacher myself I feel those 7 days away from school did not jeopardise my children's education in any way, it ultimately enhanced it. Therefore, I pay my fine of £240 and pat myself on the back for investing in my children's education and their future. I'd do it again tomorrow!

--

So the 30 kids she normally teaches have benefited how?

Cheeky Cheesy Chickentown charged you for that?

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Well I've just paid my £240 fine from Manchester City Council for taking my children out of school for 7 days. To travel to high altitude into the mountains of Peru. To mix with the mountain folk and learn about their way of life. To work with the Planeterra, a women's cooperative which promotes better opportunities in the region for women. To visit ancient inca ruins culminating in a guided tour by a genuine Incan warrior of Machu Picchu. Not to mention the cultural tour of Lima we did which educated them about the war with Chile. We spent 12 days (the rest was Easter holidays) at the most educational, fantastic place on earth. As a teacher myself I feel those 7 days away from school did not jeopardise my children's education in any way, it ultimately enhanced it. Therefore, I pay my fine of £240 and pat myself on the back for investing in my children's education and their future. I'd do it again tomorrow!

I think it's great that s/he took their kids on a jaunt around Peru to visit all the tourist traps.

Why did they have to go in term time?

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I think it's great that s/he took their kids on a jaunt around Peru to visit all the tourist traps.

Why did they have to go in term time?

Because in the holiday season all the Peruvian warriors gather up their children and take them on vacation to Manchester.

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Because in the holiday season all the Peruvian warriors gather up their children and take them on vacation to Manchester.

I think I've bumped into them playing the pan pipes a few times..

:D

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The idea that children HAVE to be in school every day is just laughable anyway.

They could miss weeks (probably months) and still be fine if they have a decent brain and decent parents.

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I think it's wrong to normalise the payment of the fine as though it were legitimate in the first place.

I think it should be better explained.

Not: You're a naughty rule breaker you need to be punished

But: The reason we charge you is XYZ. (Presumably because it is disruptive or whatever other reasons they have).

I think it would actually work best if the schools/Gvt approached it as a sin tax rather than a fine. On the basis that the only reason most people do it is to save money at the expense of their kids education and inconvenience of the school.

By making it a tax, people who genuinely need to take their kids out during term time can still do so without the stigma. Those who don't no longer have the (same) financial incentive to do so.

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I think it should be better explained.

Not: You're a naughty rule breaker you need to be punished

But: The reason we charge you is XYZ. (Presumably because it is disruptive or whatever other reasons they have).

I think it would actually work best if the schools/Gvt approached it as a sin tax rather than a fine. On the basis that the only reason most people do it is to save money at the expense of their kids education and inconvenience of the school.

By making it a tax, people who genuinely need to take their kids out during term time can still do so without the stigma. Those who don't no longer have the (same) financial incentive to do so.

But the only purpose is to look tough on "broken Britain" social issues.

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I think it should be better explained.

Not: You're a naughty rule breaker you need to be punished

But: The reason we charge you is XYZ. (Presumably because it is disruptive or whatever other reasons they have).

I think it would actually work best if the schools/Gvt approached it as a sin tax rather than a fine. On the basis that the only reason most people do it is to save money at the expense of their kids education and inconvenience of the school.

By making it a tax, people who genuinely need to take their kids out during term time can still do so without the stigma. Those who don't no longer have the (same) financial incentive to do so.

Fixed for you

I despise the power the state has over parents (other than in cases of abuse/neglect)

Schools are holding pens for children while both parents work to pay tax and mortgages. All schools do is condition worker drones for the corporations and most children learn f@ckall despite A*'s by the bushell

A week at school or a week touring Rome (or somesuch city) with a parent interested in their child's development and a £5 guidebook.

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Fixed for you

I despise the power the state has over parents (other than in cases of abuse/neglect)

Schools are holding pens for children while both parents work to pay tax and mortgages. All schools do is condition worker drones for the corporations and most children learn f@ckall despite A*'s by the bushell

A week at school or a week touring Rome (or somesuch city) with a parent interested in their child's development and a £5 guidebook.

The point is if you choose state education you have to be prepared to work within the flexibility of the system they offer. It stands to reason that if all the kids are at school at the same time, and all have holidays at the same time it is much easier to plan and manage than kids all randomly showing up when they (or their parents) feel like it.

I do sympathise with them on that and it isn't in any way at odds with you taking your kids to Rome or Disney World or anything else you fancy. You have 13 weeks a year to choose from.

Unless you have other commitments on those weeks I don't really see the problem. I suspect the real reason for most people is just that they are being tight.

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The point is if you choose state education you have to be prepared to work within the flexibility of the system they offer. It stands to reason that if all the kids are at school at the same time, and all have holidays at the same time it is much easier to plan and manage than kids all randomly showing up when they (or their parents) feel like it.

I do sympathise with them on that and it isn't in any way at odds with you taking your kids to Rome or Disney World or anything else you fancy. You have 13 weeks a year to choose from.

Unless you have other commitments on those weeks I don't really see the problem. I suspect the real reason for most people is just that they are being tight.

Most people can't choose state education - they have neither the time nor the ability nor the wherewithal to home school and I'll wager good money that if you're sending your child to a fee-paying school and have a word with the headmaster, you wouldn't get a peep (let alone a fine)

My issue is that the parent is being ursurped by the state - and this is being imposed as a tax (to really get my goat).

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http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/05/01/cornwall-school-governors-make-mosque-trip-compulsory-following-guns-and-violence-fears/

I wonder if parents would get fined for removing kids from a compulsory mosque visit. Personally I'd insist that the mosque in question had a transgender/gay/lesbian anti bullying policy in place before I'd give the little Miyagi's permission to attend.

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But the only purpose is to look tough on "broken Britain" social issues.

Such ridiculous rule obsession, treating them as an end themselves instead of a means to an end to be applied when appropriate is one sign of Broken Britain. Certainly anyone who thinks that blind enforcing of rules is a good idea is an idiot who shouldn't ever be allowed anywhere near any position of responsibility or authority.

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But the only purpose is to look tough on "broken Britain" social issues.

Typical Nouveau Labour social policy: legislate for the lowest common denominator and apply to all - ticking checkboxes with no discretion- absolute sh!te

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Because it only applies to state schools, it says you get this for free and therefore you kow tow to us. Same goes with free NHS.

We all know these things are paid for but it allows them to treat you with disdain, you are somehow a charity case, they are responsible for allocation and punishment as THEY see fit.

The other thing is is that it seems to me that the state is always in conflict with families. Families go to great lengths to protect their family in contravention of desired state outcomes whether it be 'equality' or social mobility. It is no surprise that the communists decided to try and destroy the family especially during the Cultural Revolution because the family fights any reform. And judging by the paper I posted a day or so back....very successfully thus far.

If you want to take your kids out of school, and that inconvenience is a burden on the school, then I don't see that it is wrong to ask people to pay the difference.

The flip side is, people who want the state schools to adopt a policy of voluntary attendance are in affect asking everybody else to pay for it.

I don't see that as particularly communist in and of itself. As KO Jonny points out, there are options to go privately or home school if you really don't like the state offering.

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If you want to take your kids out of school, and that inconvenience is a burden on the school, then I don't see that it is wrong to ask people to pay the difference.

The flip side is, people who want the state schools to adopt a policy of voluntary attendance are in affect asking everybody else to pay for it.

I don't see that as particularly communist in and of itself. As KO Jonny points out, there are options to go privately or home school if you really don't like the state offering.

What is the monetary cost to a school from a pupil missing a week?

So you don't see your views as communist but do you consider yourself an authoritarian conformist?

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If you want to take your kids out of school, and that inconvenience is a burden on the school, then I don't see that it is wrong to ask people to pay the difference.

As I have said before, we got fined for going to HK for Chinese New Year. My wife is HK Chinese and there were particular family obligations and it's the only time the extended family gather. There was no suggestion of catching up on missed work.

My elder son does guitar lessons organised through Surrey council that happen during school hours. I found out last week that his guitar session occurs during the only ICT lesson of the week. He has never had an ICT lesson and the school have never even realised. Now I have asked for a copy of the syllabus to catch him up, but they seem completely disinterested in providing it.

I simply don't believe there is a cost to the school in makeup teaching, because they don't do it for holidays or any other absences. This is a school that is way, way above average on all the preferred metrics, too.

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The point is if you choose state education you have to be prepared to work within the flexibility of the system they offer. It stands to reason that if all the kids are at school at the same time, and all have holidays at the same time it is much easier to plan and manage than kids all randomly showing up when they (or their parents) feel like it.

I do sympathise with them on that and it isn't in any way at odds with you taking your kids to Rome or Disney World or anything else you fancy. You have 13 weeks a year to choose from.

Unless you have other commitments on those weeks I don't really see the problem. I suspect the real reason for most people is just that they are being tight.

Cool. If I don't choose state education can I have my taxes back? Otherwise I won't be able to afford to pay privately.

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What is the monetary cost to a school from a pupil missing a week?

So you don't see your views as communist but do you consider yourself an authoritarian conformist?

I'd consider myself a social realist.. but you're welcome to call that into question.

Regarding your point, I think it's a reasonable one.

The truth is I neither manage a school nor work in education but I would see it like this:

There are two options..

1) All pupils are present at the same time. All pupils take holiday at the same time.

2) Pupils come and go as they please + (lets assume they don't need to make up the 195 day a year attendance requirement for now so still have the normal holidays).

I don't think it is an unreasonable assumption that the former is much easier to manage than the latter and that anything involving less work is generally cheaper.

Which is an admittedly vague analysis.

So to expand..

If by adopting a policy of non-mandatory attendance the work load on the teachers increases by 10%, then you could reasonably argue that every school would need to hire an additional teacher (or 2) per school.

If the cost of a teacher is, say, £60k per year (factoring in pension contributions and employment taxes etc), and a school has to hire two additional teachers we could say that is £120k per year.

In a school of 500 pupils that works out at £240 per student per year.

Admittedly there could be positives from this arrangement.. if every school has additional teaching resource then that could mean smaller class sizes and a better teaching environment generally.

The question is, how much do we want to spend on state education? What is the sweet spot and what minimum level of service do we want/need?

It also throws up questions like, do we also accept that 195 days schooling per year is optional? Is it ok for parents to take their kids out for a month, 3 months?

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