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Frank Hovis

Diesel Cars Could Be Banished As Britain Ordered To Cut Air Pollution

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Government (well, Gordon Brown) changes the tax regieme to encourage people to switch to diesel because of the over-simplistic demonisation of C02 by the global-warming VIs. And now they're going to be penalised because government has eventually realised that other things than CO2 are bad. As they were being told at the time.

Cutting air pollution is a perfectly sensible thing to do and as diesel engines produce more of it then it does make sense to go back to petrol; as long as this is in a phased way with incentives for buying petrol and no mad Mandelson scrappage scheme.

However... when I was taught it in school fractional distillation of oil produces set quantities of the various components. So phase out diesel engines and you are going to have a lot of unwanted diesel oil knocking about.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/11571615/Dirty-diesel-cars-could-be-banished-as-Britain-ordered-to-cut-air-pollution.html

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Bloody typical! I buy my first diesel car in 2005. Three weeks later, the tax on diesel goes up, making it more expensive than petrol for the first time.

Ten years on and I'm now running a diesel Volvo. Really pleased with fuel consumption at around 60 - 70 mpg. And now they're likely to forbid diesels. Head in hands. I can't win!

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However... when I was taught it in school fractional distillation of oil produces set quantities of the various components. So phase out diesel engines and you are going to have a lot of unwanted diesel oil knocking about.

That's why cracking and reforming were invented; it converts one oil fraction into another. It was essential for North Sea oil, as there was very little petrol in the distillate, so cracking/reforming was essential to make it useful.

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That's a bit misleading..

NOx emissions under Euro 6 are 0.08 g/km for diesel, vs 0.06 for petrol.

So current diesels produce far less NOX than petrol cars manufactured in say 2005 when Euro 3 specified 0.15.

Basically, diesels have closed the gap to become almost indistinguishable from petrol engines now..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_emission_standards

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I would be more concerned this is veiled threat to roll out congestion charges across more major cities regardless of what car you drive.

After the elections of course..

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That's a bit misleading..

NOx emissions under Euro 6 are 0.08 g/km for diesel, vs 0.06 for petrol.

So current diesels produce far less NOX than petrol cars manufactured in say 2005 when Euro 3 specified 0.15.

Basically, diesels have closed the gap to become almost indistinguishable from petrol engines now..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_emission_standards

They have, but it's bloody difficult and bloody complicated. There must have been billions poured into getting diesel engines to this degree of both efficiency and cleanliness.

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That's a bit misleading..

NOx emissions under Euro 6 are 0.08 g/km for diesel, vs 0.06 for petrol.

So current diesels produce far less NOX than petrol cars manufactured in say 2005 when Euro 3 specified 0.15.

Basically, diesels have closed the gap to become almost indistinguishable from petrol engines now..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_emission_standards

Why do you just pick out NOx? Also a maximum legal value is not a target. Just because the standard was less strict in 2005 that doesn't mean that all petrol cars were emitting that much.

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PM10s and PM2.5s are the problem. Unfortunately modern high compression petrol engines produce more of them than diesel cars.

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Why do you just pick out NOx? Also a maximum legal value is not a target. Just because the standard was less strict in 2005 that doesn't mean that all petrol cars were emitting that much.

Fair comment.

Really only because that is what they highlight in the article as the cause of the concern and the fines.

Particulates are usually the other concern, but Euro 6 sets the same limit for both petrol and diesel.

I take your point on arbitrary targets.. I have no idea if petrol cars are actually far cleaners than the targets set. My suspicion is that they probably aren't though. Happy to be proven wrong.

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I would be more concerned this is veiled threat to roll out congestion charges across more major cities regardless of what car you drive.

After the elections of course..

Maybe more, don't forget they could offer a diesel scrappage scheme to boost car sales and get all those nasty evil diesel cars off the road.

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Guest eight

Maybe more, don't forget they could offer a diesel scrappage scheme to boost car sales and get all those nasty evil diesel cars off the road.

I think this is going to be one of the main economic drivers in the future - the random destruction or invalidation of stuff you need to function. Maybe just ban red cars one week, green front doors the next, blue shirts the week after.

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I would be more concerned this is veiled threat to roll out congestion charges across more major cities regardless of what car you drive.

After the elections of course..

Yup i would agree it`s a stealth tax in the making

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I think this is going to be one of the main economic drivers in the future - the random destruction or invalidation of stuff you need to function. Maybe just ban red cars one week, green front doors the next, blue shirts the week after.

Don`t give them ideas ffs

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I think this is going to be one of the main economic drivers in the future - the random destruction or invalidation of stuff you need to function. Maybe just ban red cars one week, green front doors the next, blue shirts the week after.

Athens had that odd / even number cars allowed in on particular days; I heard of a council doing it.

And of course if you have to drive in then you buy two cars.

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So what do you think will be the likely outcome? Increase tax disc? A lot are already zero. Mine is, so they can double that if they like. Increase cost at the pump? Doesn't that just cause inflation?

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So what do you think will be the likely outcome? Increase tax disc? A lot are already zero. Mine is, so they can double that if they like. Increase cost at the pump? Doesn't that just cause inflation?

It's about cities so those with congestion charges (is it just London or is Oxford doing it too?) will whack up the charge for diesels. And this will lead other cities with air pollution problems into bringing in congestion charges and doing the same.

If you don't drive into big cities on a regular basis you may find that you actually benefit from this as it will mean a lot of cheap second hand diesels about for a few years as those who do will swap them for petrol.

IMO anyway.

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It's about cities so those with congestion charges (is it just London or is Oxford doing it too?) will whack up the charge for diesels. And this will lead other cities with air pollution problems into bringing in congestion charges and doing the same.

The complete and utter lack of any sign of support whatsoever for a congestion charge in Manchester seems to have knocked the stuffing out of the idea so attempts at sneaking things in by less direct means are to be expected.

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How is that pollution situation moving along in China?

And just WHO can order Britain around?

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How is that pollution situation moving along in China?

And just WHO can order Britain around?

The Germans may have lost the war.. but they won the battle.

No, that's not right

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If you don't drive into big cities on a regular basis you may find that you actually benefit from this as it will mean a lot of cheap second hand diesels about for a few years as those who do will swap them for petrol.

Or if you live in a city and breathe air ...

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Why do you just pick out NOx?

Because that's specifically what the High Court has just found against the government on.

I look forward to the time the ban domestic wood-burning and coal-burning fires and stoves, which are now a much bigger pollution hazard (if you happen to live downwind of one) than either traffic or other nasties like tobacco, weed or incense.

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I was sure something like this was on the way, so I bought the least tech-laden normally aspirated diesel I could find, then removed the cat. and EGR valve. (Diesel as the low down grunt is useful around town with all tools/materials on board. It's slow accelerating to high speed of course.)

Now it can breathe properly the MPG has increased.

I figured I might as well just rip the lot out until it's not allowed/priced off of the road, even with it's existing emission controls in place and meeting a once legally binding target (Euro 3)

No chance of turbo/DPF/common rail/intercooler/dual mass flywheel/swirl flap failure...it has none of these :D

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Because that's specifically what the High Court has just found against the government on.

I look forward to the time the ban domestic wood-burning and coal-burning fires and stoves, which are now a much bigger pollution hazard (if you happen to live downwind of one) than either traffic

Right... Live in somewhere where you can still burn them and you've got worse air pollution than living in a traffic-heavy city? I'd rather have the air in a decent village than a city centre.

I look forward to the time when there aren't such stupid numbers of people around that this is even an issue so we can just get on with our lives without having all this interference, but alas no chance of that (and no ethical way of getting there in less than several centuries).

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