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disenfranchised

Deep Burning Hatred Of The Tories...

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I'm a business owner. A higher rate tax payer. I work in banking, in London. I'm white, English, and male. Everything about me statistically says I should be pro-Tory.

I considered voting for them in 2010 when they acknowledged the bubble, excessive immigration etc... and vowed to deal with it all and balance the books, but after 5 years of Cameron and Osborne, it is now evident that most of their 2010 manifesto was one huge, epic, monstorous lie. As such, I have developed a deep burning hatred for their party that would make even Aneurin Bevan wince.

Sometimes I feel like I am the only person in their 'core demographic' that feels lke this!

Now the crunch...

In this election campaign, I constantly see monstorous lies about them and by them go completely unchallenged in the press.

A Tory shill was on the BBC news today saying 'in 2010 we got a note from Labour saying sorry, there's no money left, and now we've halved the deficit blah blah blah' surely the presenter should have come straight back with "YOU JUST PRINTED MORE MONEY AND TOOK ON MORE NATIONAL DEBT IN 5 YEARS THAN LABOUR MANAGED IN 13!" But no, on we go with the giant lie of their fiscal prudence.

The Evening Standard actually printed a letter to the same effect the other night too, as if it was a fact that the Tories can be trusted because they will not increase the debt burden!

Why are the media and particularly their political oponents not shining a light of truth onto all of these failures, lies and manipulations? Is this why more people in their core demographic aren't angry, because they take these assertions at face value?

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I think theres a world wide pretence of we must pretend it`s all fine and dandy .

Last time we had universal denia/lies on the scale you have described (all political parties and the media) was in the run up to 2008 something's not right as you say there so much which is blindingly obvious not being challenged ,it`s getting spooky

KB`s 2008.2 is beginning to look like it`s closer than we think

Edited by long time lurking

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I'm no Tory and never voted for them but I actually thought that Dave Snooty and his pals would put the UK economy on the right track and become the party for all echelons of the British social strata.

Funny thing about the Conservatives in this parliament is their failure to CONSERVE.

Hated their policies of persecuting the less fortunate in society eg: the bedroom tax without coming up with more universally beneficial solutions.

Only decent things they did were, as I'm a lower rate tax payer I'm paying less income tax and council tax has only crept up. However, giveth with one hand, taketh away with the other...

Very poor show, Dave Snooty!

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Confessions of a banker? Not expecting a lot of sympathy but me too, although mine's worse because I also voted for it. I despise them more than it's healthy to despise a fairly nondescript group of individuals. The system today, the whole fecking system is off the scale outrageous. Some ideas are stupid, some dreamy, some quite dodgy. But this is epic bullsh1t. Of people I know in the demographic it's not so much a support for policies, as phew wasn't expecting that after 2008.

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Confessions of a banker? Not expecting a lot of sympathy but me too, although mine's worse because I also voted for it. I despise them more than it's healthy to despise a fairly nondescript group of individuals. The system today, the whole fecking system is off the scale outrageous. Some ideas are stupid, some dreamy, some quite dodgy. But this is epic bullsh1t. Of people I know in the demographic it's not so much a support for policies, as phew wasn't expecting that after 2008.

Nothing to confess to really... I work in one of the few parts of banking that is truly essential - designing the payment systems and accounting processes, and I'm independent (contractor) so I can choose what type of work I do. Personally I'd have nothing to do with something like credit default swaps.

To be honest though, I think the vitriol of the general population for banks is partially misplaced.

Banking is not an immoral industry, it's largely an amoral one, the same as most others. You can't rely on manufacturers not to polute the environment with toxic chemicals without regulation (look at the US and China) so you shouldn't rely on the banks not to polute the economy with toxic products and toxic debt either. Its the job of the government to regulate it, it's the only thing the banks can respond effectively to, if the government do not define the competitive boundaries, the banks will naturally strive to outdo one another. Most banking staff understand business, not economics & an MBA is far more common amongst key decision makers than any risk, economics or accounting qualification.

You can see this from the reaction to the PPI scandal. Two of the main focuses these days in retail banking when developing products are the customer viewpoint and the behavioural risk of the bank in disadvaging /misleading/mis-selling - without the precedent of PPI etc... this wouldn't be the case. No industry can self-regulate effectively. Capitalisation is improving mainly in response to Basel III. In the presence of cheap capital through FLS, mortgage lending has been reigned in due to MMR, not some deep economic conscience the banks have miraculously developed.

It is patently stupid to have an economy so dependent upon the creation of private debt where this activity was, prior to about 2009, pretty much completely "do as you like"

I blame successive governments from 1979 onwards for their laissez faire attitude, not the industry itself, although there are clear examples where accountable execs and non-executive directors should have been held to account far more strongly for pre-2008 decisions and activities.

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Might have some crossed wire there as I meant confessing to hating the Tories not banking. I can't claim your arms length (working in trading although not cds stuff) so I don't claim no part in it, however naive or not the assimilation. I'm happy with anyone blaming whoever they like, but the system's bigger than bankers, polluters or even most politician's. It's the intermingling of it all into a big series of lies. Then justifying those lies, bending it, spreading as truth, and getting away with it. Everyone should be held to personal account far more strongly, it would resolve a lot of problems.

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Yeah, crossed wires - I'm so used to the 'oh you work for a BANK' conversation, I guess most of us are... Assumed your meaning was you also hated the selfservatives rather than also working for the banks - apologies!

Does my observation about understanding business rather than economics hold true in trading?

Edited by disenfranchised

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Yeah, crossed wires - I'm so used to the 'oh you work for a BANK' conversation, I guess most of us are... Assumed your meaning was you also hated the selfservatives rather than also working for the banks - apologies!

Does my observation about understanding business rather than economics hold true in trading?

I'm not so bothered by that. I don't pretend to be a saint, but also don't accept sweeping generalisations made without questioning them.

Understanding business. Sort of but not really. Trading is a game, and financial markets and the economy are not the same thing. What should not happen is for risk to flow from zero-sum games to real systemic impact because it's rigged with everyone else's backing. As I imagine you know most people in banking (and trading) didn't have any greater idea than anyone else about what was going on, not did they expect the world to pivot around them once they did. I don't plan to do it for much longer, but that's not out of any personal shame (or riches).

That the last few years have continued as they have though, particularly under this government and the knowledge we all have, is unjustifiable. And with so few question about this and broad societal effects is appalling. I'm not talking any new found champagne socialism as I've never been enamoured by government, but the utter disdain by all authority - exemplified by the Conservatives - towards the population and decent rights and opportunities for normal people.

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I'm no Tory and never voted for them but I actually thought that Dave Snooty and his pals would put the UK economy on the right track and become the party for all echelons of the British social strata.

Funny thing about the Conservatives in this parliament is their failure to CONSERVE.

Hated their policies of persecuting the less fortunate in society eg: the bedroom tax without coming up with more universally beneficial solutions.

Only decent things they did were, as I'm a lower rate tax payer I'm paying less income tax and council tax has only crept up. However, giveth with one hand, taketh away with the other...

Very poor show, Dave Snooty!

I am no Tory and I think the bedroom tax is bad because it is hard to administer. However if you think people in social housing with spare bedrooms are the least fortunate in society, you are very wrong. They could be in private accomodation where spare bedrooms were banned by Labour a few years ago.

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However if you think people in social housing with spare bedrooms are the least fortunate in society, you are very wrong.

I agree, not enough get this. Fact is, if you're poor, being in social housing means you're the 'cream of the poor', or even these days those approaching middling income.

That is how badly successive governments have mismanaged things.

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I never used to understand the dislike of the Conservatives and actively supported them (well, voted for them) through the Thatcher & Major years but I find Cameron & Osborne to be ridiculous stereotypes.

Over the last week alone their continued pumping of the housing bubble (cash to allow people to have the rent deposit to rent a BTL, whack up the inheritance tax threshold so massive unearned gains on property can be retained) and now the frankly mental Right to Buy being extended (and yes I know that was originally Maggie's, nobody's perfect) even further.

I would actually agree with RTB if it applied to all renters including private sector, but no, that particular lottery win is reserved for social housing renters.

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Hate can be quite powerful, and turn you in to ...

55dc2e29571904c985775948bf052412.jpg

The working-class daughter of an electrician and a housewife admits she was driven by an intense hatred of Margaret Thatcher.

'Thatcher was the motivation for my entire political career,' Miss Sturgeon recalls. 'I hated everything she stood for. This was the genesis of my nationalism.

'I hated the fact that she was able to do what she was doing and yet no one I knew in my entire life had voted for her.'

That unassuming property, where Miss Sturgeon's parents still live, may appear an unlikely crucible for such burning political ambition.

Yet paradoxically – despite the First Minister's loathing of all things Conservative – her parents had purchased the family home under the Tories' original right-to-buy policy.

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Hate can be quite powerful, and turn you in to ...

55dc2e29571904c985775948bf052412.jpg

The working-class daughter of an electrician and a housewife admits she was driven by an intense hatred of Margaret Thatcher.

'Thatcher was the motivation for my entire political career,' Miss Sturgeon recalls. 'I hated everything she stood for. This was the genesis of my nationalism.

'I hated the fact that she was able to do what she was doing and yet no one I knew in my entire life had voted for her.'

That unassuming property, where Miss Sturgeon's parents still live, may appear an unlikely crucible for such burning political ambition.

Yet paradoxically – despite the First Minister's loathing of all things Conservative – her parents had purchased the family home under the Tories' original right-to-buy policy.

Aye well, having governments forced upon you tends to do that.... witness the wailing and gnashing of teeth from South of the border at the thought of the SNP having some clout in Westminster.

Whenever I feel my hatred of the tories rise, I think of the mess that labour left, and the betrayal of core voters by the Lib Dems. I then find that I'm an equal opportunities hater.....

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Whenever I feel my hatred of the tories rise, I think of the mess that labour left, and the betrayal of core voters by the Lib Dems. I then find that I'm an equal opportunities hater.....

Hahaha I'm with you there ! :D

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I never used to understand the dislike of the Conservatives and actively supported them (well, voted for them) through the Thatcher & Major years but I find Cameron & Osborne to be ridiculous stereotypes.

Over the last week alone their continued pumping of the housing bubble (cash to allow people to have the rent deposit to rent a BTL, whack up the inheritance tax threshold so massive unearned gains on property can be retained) and now the frankly mental Right to Buy being extended (and yes I know that was originally Maggie's, nobody's perfect) even further.

I would actually agree with RTB if it applied to all renters including private sector, but no, that particular lottery win is reserved for social housing renters.

I can only assume that Osborne thinks its 1982. Fact is that the situation now is completely different to what it was >30 years ago, and unsurprisingly what policies make sense have changed too.

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I agree, not enough get this. Fact is, if you're poor, being in social housing means you're the 'cream of the poor', or even these days those approaching middling income. .

Absolutely - mate of mine was raging the other day that a family member of his (taxi driving king of undelcared income, 6 kids form 2 marriages, 4 still school age) has been gifted a very nice and new £500k council house in Cambridge - where my friend and his wife (both working hard for about £40k a year each) cannot afford to buy a house - he'll get to RTB it at a discount after a few years as well.

Its the way the Tories have perpetuated this sort of outright unfairness with their populist market rigging crap that fuels my hatred of them, we don't want f***ing "Help" to buy, we want an end to governement sponsored hinderance.

Nobody really envied people their council house in the 80's - there was no shortage, and coucil houses although perfectly respectable were not desirable - if you could afford to buy pretty much anything privately built you did not begrudge somebody being helped to buy a council property. Its not like that any more - the sink estates are still sink estates, except most of the landlords are now private and bigger benefit claimants that their tennants whilst the (very limited) new council housing and housing association properties are bought or built in small clusters alongside private housing.

Where the hell is the motivation to get up and get on in life when people working less and earning less are GIFTED things you can only dream of earning for yourself.

No social justice any more, just failed social engineering.

Edited by disenfranchised

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Absolutely - mate of mine was raging the other day that a family member of his (taxi driving king of undelcared income, 6 kids form 2 marriages, 4 still school age) has been gifted a very nice and new £500k council house in Cambridge - where my friend and his wife (both working hard for about £40k a year each) cannot afford to buy a house - he'll get to RTB it at a discount after a few years as well.

Its the way the Tories have perpetuated this sort of outright unfairness with their populist market rigging crap that fuels my hatred of them, we don't want f***ing "Help" to buy, we want an end to governement sponsored hinderance.

Nobody really envied people their council house in the 80's - there was no shortage, and coucil houses although perfectly respectable were not desirable - if you could afford to buy pretty much anything privately built you did not begrudge somebody being helped to buy a council property. Its not like that any more - the sink estates are still sink estates, except most of the landlords are now private and bigger benefit claimants that their tennants whilst the (very limited) new council housing and housing association properties are bought or built in small clusters alongside private housing.

Where the hell is the motivation to get up and get on in life when people working less and earning less are GIFTED things you can only dream of earning for yourself.

No social justice any more, just failed social engineering.

Absolutely, 100%, couldn't agree more, nailed it.

Of course it really goddamned rankles when you know you're the mug paying for these gifts. That clueless cretin IDS seems to particularly not get this; can't see myself voting Tory again until he is gone.

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I have moderately liberal-Conservative views and the conservative party itself simply doesn't represent my views and interests, their actions have said this. Time for change for changes sake.

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Conservative politics in the UK seems to be morphing into American pork barrel so called conservatism, roll on the next financial crisis and a revolution in politics

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