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Basic Nhs Services Could Be Charged For After General Election, Bma Chief Says

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http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/03/basic-nhs-services-could-be-charged-for-after-general-election-bma-chief-says

Patients could have to start to pay charges to use basic NHS services such as GPs because the health service’s finances have become so dire, the leader of Britain’s doctors has warned.

Dr Mark Porter, the head of the British Medical Association (BMA), said that whoever takes office after the general election will inevitably be tempted to bring in charges and may not be deterred by the unpopularity of such a seismic change to the health service.

In an interivew with Guardian, Porter said: “I think they will be tempted. They said in 1950 that a Labour government wouldn’t introduce charging and it did.”

The introduction of prescription charges prompted the NHS founder, Nye Bevan, to resign from Clement Attlee’s government in April 1951.

Doctors seeking to extract more tribute from the populace? So rather than change the GP contracts it's easy just to charge the public?

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http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/03/basic-nhs-services-could-be-charged-for-after-general-election-bma-chief-says

Doctors seeking to extract more tribute from the populace? So rather than change the GP contracts it's easy just to charge the public?

So how has that setup worked for dentists and opticians?

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http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/03/basic-nhs-services-could-be-charged-for-after-general-election-bma-chief-says

Doctors seeking to extract more tribute from the populace? So rather than change the GP contracts it's easy just to charge the public?

Swedish friend told me that everybody pays for GP visits in Sweden, also hospital stays - there is a charge for the 'hotel' element. Also for prescriptions, though there is an annual cap. I think her dad who was in his 90s and not very well off still had to pay for his prescriptions up to a point. And yet Sweden is popularly supposed to be a socialist utopia.

I believe there are also charges for the likes of GP visits in France.

I don't see why prescriptions should be free to everyone over a certain age regardless of income. I know of one older bloke who is certainly not hard up, who stockpiles umpteen prescription items and ultimately discards many of them. He is also pretty tight and would certainly not take things he didn't need if he had to pay. And I bet he's not the only one, far from it.

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Swedish friend told me that everybody pays for GP visits in Sweden, also hospital stays - there is a charge for the 'hotel' element. Also for prescriptions, though there is an annual cap. I think her dad who was in his 90s and not very well off still had to pay for his prescriptions up to a point. And yet Sweden is popularly supposed to be a socialist utopia.

I believe there are also charges for the likes of GP visits in France.

I don't see why prescriptions should be free to everyone over a certain age regardless of income. I know of one older bloke who is certainly not hard up, who stockpiles umpteen prescription items and ultimately discards many of them. He is also pretty tight and would certainly not take things he didn't need if he had to pay. And I bet he's not the only one, far from it.

And Germany. No card then no treatment.

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Why not, charge and then give it back as a tax rebate? What's that? You don't pay tax. Tough.

Even a small charge will stop the place being full of overweight people winging about having a fat face 'n' ar$e, and will make room for the people who are actually ill.

It will never happen.

Edited by XswampyX

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The NHS funding has more than doubled since about 1997 - it really lifted off beyond trend. That's hefty year on year increases and it seems that they want more now yet again.

http://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/data-and-charts/history-nhs-spending-uk

Even in 1997 the NHS did offer a reasonable service. Not great but reasonable.

A lot of the extra money was spent on new hospitals and new facilities so presumably they aren't worn out seeing as pretty ancient buildings were still performing a useful role back in 1997 - so facilities can last a long time if the will is there.

Of course it's always nice to have new stuff all the time but that can be a bit wasteful - and it's always nice to have a wage rise whenever possible and maybe a little increase in the administration's empire is nice as well.

Then there's the rapidly increasing population that's got to be catered for which is apparently needed to benefit the economy.

Sometimes it all maybe doesn't add up that well.

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I'd be happy to pay whatever just so long as foreigners can use the NHS for free at the point of use.

After listening to the BBC, Labour Party, Tory Party, SNP, Plaid Cymru and LIBDEMS today they all think this service should be open to everyone and for anyone to think differently is a child eating racist.

What a bunch of traitorous c...s they really are.

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In the case of the NHS, a huge proportion of money is spent on providing services to people who could easily afford to pay for it themselves. Having said that - those who pay into a private medical insurance scheme aren't means tested when they need treatment. The answer probably lies in means testing the amount paid to be a member of the scheme, in this case, the NHS. That would mean regular medical examinations and checkups to assess insurance premium levels - the incentive to look after one's health would be greater with such a scheme and it would probably mean smaller waiting lists and better quality care.

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In the case of the NHS, a huge proportion of money is spent on providing services to people who could easily afford to pay for it themselves. Having said that - those who pay into a private medical insurance scheme aren't means tested when they need treatment. The answer probably lies in means testing the amount paid to be a member of the scheme, in this case, the NHS. That would mean regular medical examinations and checkups to assess insurance premium levels - the incentive to look after one's health would be greater with such a scheme and it would probably mean smaller waiting lists and better quality care.

Is the amount you pay not already means tested in as in the more you earn the more tax you pay?

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http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/03/basic-nhs-services-could-be-charged-for-after-general-election-bma-chief-says

Doctors seeking to extract more tribute from the populace? So rather than change the GP contracts it's easy just to charge the public?

now hold on just a minute.

most of us here are paying 11% of our income already for these services.

if we are already paying we should expect to receive.

if they aren't prepared to front up, then there should be no such thing as national insurance,and all services given strictly on a pay-as-you-use basis.

they can't have their cake and eat it.

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In the case of the NHS, a huge proportion of money is spent on providing services to people who could easily afford to pay for it themselves. Having said that - those who pay into a private medical insurance scheme aren't means tested when they need treatment. .

no,but you do have to pay an excess charge(usually something like £100 per diagnosis/treatment)

the benefit of such schemes is that you will be referred and seen to in a few days rather than a couple of months.

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I'd be happy to pay whatever just so long as foreigners can use the NHS for free at the point of use.

After listening to the BBC, Labour Party, Tory Party, SNP, Plaid Cymru and LIBDEMS today they all think this service should be open to everyone and for anyone to think differently is a child eating racist.

What a bunch of traitorous c...s they really are.

The problem is not so much treating people who are in the country. I think it would be difficult for doctors to decide not to treat someone. Rather it is a case of not letting those people into the country in the first place and removing those who are here illegallly. I suspect removing illegals is very difficult too, in practise. You need agreement of the country they are being sent to and I bet most won't do that.

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I'd be happy to pay whatever just so long as foreigners can use the NHS for free at the point of use.

After listening to the BBC, Labour Party, Tory Party, SNP, Plaid Cymru and LIBDEMS today they all think this service should be open to everyone and for anyone to think differently is a child eating racist.

What a bunch of traitorous c...s they really are.

depends what the service is.

if it for something seriously life-threatening,most people don't have a problem.

the NHS(under bevan) was initially designed as a "patch you up and on your way sonny" service..not a way of life.

even the most staunch labourite woule now have trouble seeing the NHS as the vision it was originally intended to be

.(now i actually think it was in essence a good idea,but it has been abused and it's remit stretch beyond that which was intended)

if someone has just moved here from somalia and wants to become a shemale,then that should be off limits.

(having said that,there are also things in the asian community like marrying close relatives that causes deformities and handicaps....we shouldn't really be splashing out on that sort of thing if they have not been adhering to our matrimonial laws--which actually were put there for such reasons.)

in this day and age of globalism the spreading of the gene pool should be reducing ailments such as this!!,but due to cultural sensitivities...it isn't

Edited by oracle

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The problem with the NHS is that it has too much overhead in the form of Managers and Advisers. For every Nurse there are 8 managers above them according to one report I read a while back. Get rid of the least useful managers and stop all this advisory outsourcing nonsense. I have an Aunt that is pulling in £2K per month working an average of 20 hours per week as a "Stop Smoking Adviser" for the NHS. The job consists of her dropping off leaflets at pubs, shops, community centers etc and then when someone calls her personal number forwarding them on to their local NHS stop smoking clinic. It's a racket, cut out these middlemen.

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Is the amount you pay not already means tested in as in the more you earn the more tax you pay?

Not really. I might be a low earner yet still be a high risk or a high earner with a low risk.

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Swedish friend told me that everybody pays for GP visits in Sweden, also hospital stays - there is a charge for the 'hotel' element. Also for prescriptions, though there is an annual cap. I think her dad who was in his 90s and not very well off still had to pay for his prescriptions up to a point. And yet Sweden is popularly supposed to be a socialist utopia.

I believe there are also charges for the likes of GP visits in France.

I don't see why prescriptions should be free to everyone over a certain age regardless of income. I know of one older bloke who is certainly not hard up, who stockpiles umpteen prescription items and ultimately discards many of them. He is also pretty tight and would certainly not take things he didn't need if he had to pay. And I bet he's not the only one, far from it.

Few countries have as 'socialized' healthcare systems as the UK, though sweden comes close.

public-spending-percent-total-spending1-

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depends what the service is.

if it for something seriously life-threatening,most people don't have a problem.

the NHS(under bevan) was initially designed as a "patch you up and on your way sonny" service..not a way of life.

even the most staunch labourite woule now have trouble seeing the NHS as the vision it was originally intended to be

.(now i actually think it was in essence a good idea,but it has been abused and it's remit stretch beyond that which was intended)

if someone has just moved here from somalia and wants to become a shemale,then that should be off limits.

(having said that,there are also things in the asian community like marrying close relatives that causes deformities and handicaps....we shouldn't really be splashing out on that sort of thing if they have not been adhering to our matrimonial laws--which actually were put there for such reasons.)

in this day and age of globalism the spreading of the gene pool should be reducing ailments such as this!!,but due to cultural sensitivities...it isn't

If i go on holiday or work overseas i will have health insurance and i wouldn't expect the nation to pick up the bill for me in any way shape or form.

For nations we have no reciprocal agreement add a fee onto the visa for medical insurance or make it mandatory to get past customs.

For those that dont have insurance and have an accident, patch them up and give them the minimal amount of care, as what would happen to them in their own country.

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Most gps I know (& consultants) have retired in their 50s so they can find time to pack in all their long haul holidays, mini breaks, stays in their provencal/tuscan bolt hole, trips to the theatre, ballet, etc etc.

gps are one instance where pensions could easily be given a haircut and theyd barely notice. Say 50% or so.

Theyre also a significant driver of high cost of decent family homes

Edited by R K

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gps are one instance where pensions could easily be given a haircut and theyd barely notice. Say 50% or so.

Already done. The final salary pension scheme is gone and the retirement age is 68.

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now hold on just a minute.

most of us here are paying 11% of our income already for these services.

We would be if NI was exclusively used for health services and didn't just go into the general 'tax pot'.

Instead of charges a massive review of operational practices should take place to remove inefficiency and waste. Use facilities more intensively, etc. I'm sure I've written something similar on a similar thread.

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Stop treating people once they reach 80 and just let them have a free bottle of gin a day.

I once worked in a lab testing tumour samples that had come from people who had undergone massively invasive surgery to remove large parts of their liver or intestines where metastatic tumours had set up shop. Looking at the dates of birth on the patient info you could see that many of these people were in their 80s.

Putting somebody that age through this kind of surgery is barbaric. They have to go through all the stress leading up to the operation, then you hack out half of their guts, then they spend a long time recovering because healing is slow in older people, then they die of a tumour which has lodged itself somewhere inoperable not long after anyway.

It would be far better for patients, their families and the taxpayer if the NHS got better at palliative care and helped people to die a low pain death with dignity once it became clear that the problem was terminal. Unfortunately there are many factors working against this, including patients and their families who insist that everything that can be done must be done as well as culture of targets where more operations equals better medicine.

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It would be far better for patients, their families and the taxpayer if the NHS got better at palliative care and helped people to die a low pain death with dignity once it became clear that the problem was terminal. Unfortunately there are many factors working against this, including patients and their families who insist that everything that can be done must be done as well as culture of targets where more operations equals better medicine.

You could also argue that researching new drugs is a waste of time. We have lots currently we can't afford to use.

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You could also argue that researching new drugs is a waste of time. We have lots currently we can't afford to use.

Not all new drugs are that expensive but yes, a drug that costs a year of taxpayer life to buy and which only extends life for 6 months is a net destroyer of value.

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Something needs to be done. My local practice seems chock full of boomers demanding a constant supply of quack remedies from Big Pharma. Some even getting pharacetemol on prescription. Oh well 'they have paid in, all their lives.'

Seem to recall France, a nation of hypercondriacs makes a charge, but you can reclaim, but some form of up front charge would make people think.

Edited by RentierParadisio

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