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Leaders Debate


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I almost expect that to be his plan, as anybody even remotely rightward leaning - ie someone who doesn't believe in magic money trees - must see that he's just speaking bald truth. After all that admission from everybody else that the NHS is creaking and groaning I wouldn't have thought an International NHS was defensible at all from anybody with two braincells to rub together.

Staggering how Labour claim to be the party for the NHS yet can't quite get the fact that this is the case.

Farage mentioned knocking off a mere 10 billion from foreign aid and not one of the other loony left parties has the intelligence to back this most obvious of vote winners. Its all just tax tax tax as to how they're going to cut the deficit, not one of them gives policy on cuts for this the chair shows his/her incompetence.

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Rebecca's question was the key one for me as everything she mentioned - student debt, housing, pensions, falling living standards - is exactly what I have been experiencing over the last decade.

But the politicians were more interested in blaming each other for tuition fees than in addressing the substance of the question.

Nick Clegg's plans for shared rent-buy or whatever are incoherent and insulting to people who'd rather own 100% of a house. Ed Miliband's only useful housing policy is to ban letting agent fees. Cameron wants to build 'starter homes' - sounds like first-time-buyer ghettos to me. 80% of market value doesn't sound that cheap - and what's the betting they'll be 80% of the (already terrible) market quality?

I liked Farage's line about having to build a house every seven minutes.

But none of them even mentioned the actual price of a house.

I liked Natalie Bennet. She came across as sincere and human, and outlined her policies and made her arguments clearly. Not every politician has to be a slick media manipulator. I think she did a lot tonight to make up for her earlier radio gaffe.

Edited by irrationalactor
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I didn't watch it, as I didn't care. Ooops!

---

They know it (the economy, therefore housing) is a ponzi scheme, we know it is a ponzi. They pretend to not to know it is a ponzi, the people invested know it is a ponzi. We pretend it isn't a ponzi. They know that we know, and pretend not to know it is a ponzi.

Cameron doesn't want to be around to see the ponzi fall. The ponzi needs people - no one is going to stop people coming into the UK or the ponzi will fall! Not on my watch!

Edited by 200p
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Farage was the only straight talking politician on the programme.

The best question was asked by the young lass regarding inter-generational inequality. Disappointingly the politician's focussed on the numbers of students getting into University, over and above the real inequality issues such as housing, pensions (what will be dished out in the future) & debt - personal and national.

Clegg also indicated that the problem with housing is the "deposit". No it isn't, its the price.

Yeah just think about that. The answer to generational inequality was Uni. FFS!

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I very nearly smashed my TV in. It was just an illustration of how little chance of substantive change we have. Being told by plaid cymru and the SNP that immigration is awesome was a particular highlight given that the effects are disproportionately felt in England. Clegg's sky falling in regarding immigrants and the NHS was just allowed to stand unchallenged. Farage may be a bit one note but its key to the whole damn mess. House prices, social cohesion, NHS provision etc. We have finite resources that cannot support infinite people. I cringe every time I hear that immigrants bring economic benefits. GDP maybe, per capita? No one dare mention that. Anyway however good the economics are established norms and culture are being swept away by a tide that we had a chance to stop but never got a chance to express an opinion without being called racist.

Why the hell would anyone vote for a pontificating Aussie either?

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Oops. Just started another thread about it. Here's my impression of each leader;

Did you watch the leaders tv debate? If so, what did you think of their performance? Not just what they said but how they came across. Give them a score from from 1 to 10, 10 being the best they can get, 1 being the worst.

Nigel Farage = 7. A likeable character, very good at public speaking. Gets his points across well and seems to have good rapport with the audience. Doesn't come across as just another robotic politician. However, seems obsessed with immigration and some of his points sounded very simple and narrow minded. Didn't always give credible answers regarding how problems would be resolved once immigration was reduced. One trick pony hiding behind a charismatic personality.

I think I'll take the time with this comment. He is obsessed. as you put it, because he can see the damage it is doing to the fabric of society to those who are already here, regardless of their background. As he stated, (which you didn't acknowledge), he gave figures quoting the huge influx over the last 15 years compared to much more manageable figures some 70 years ago since 1945.

To say he is somehow 'very simple and narrow minded' is perhaps more a reflection on you, by not seeing how in putting large numbers of people year in year out in to the UK, (not even dealing with whether they hold similar cultural and societal views to the British populous), shows you haven't really thought through the consequences of that policy. Perhaps you are lucky and don't live in an area where it's happened, fair play to you if that's the case.

However to list a few I can think of regarding a 'very simple and narrow minded' view on uncontrolled immigration: Strains on housing, on infrastructure, jobs, services, tensions between communities, differences and difficulties in languages spoken or written, costs of interpreters, cultural sensitivities and that's without even thinking about it!

He gave a credible answer, he said we should adopt an Aussie points system for people coming here for the skills we, as a society, genuinely need, that answers the question!

As to how he would solve the problems once numbers reduced, well, you do that through assimilation and time.

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We should borrow more to pay for the world's NHS.

I seriously think many just have no idea about the full impacts of NHS health tourism.

I know of a woman who lives very comfortably in the Middle East, husband works in finance, servants for everything. She flies into the UK to see her NHS GP who knows her totally non residential status. Her son has a complex renal problem which is treated under the NHS, he was born here on one of her shopping trips.

The "official" NHS figures are a joke. Farage was right to point this out.

The whole "Population Ponzi" is a naive shame.

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Natalie Bennett made the most sense on the economy. Unsurprisingly she was rated worst on the economy and Cameron the best, which is an indictment of how thick the public are. Lots of "paying down the credit card" drivel as per usual.

Best politician by a mile was Sturgeon.

Farage wants foreigners to all die of AIDS or something. Usual obnoxious ultra-right nonsense. Dare say ultra-right loons loved all that.

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I'm at a lose to what people think is wrong with Farages view on HIV treatment. According to Wikipedia 33million people worldwide are infected with HIV, are those applauding Leanne woods comment suggesting we should pay for all their treatment? Or just those who some how end up in Britain?

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What is profound about these debates is comparing them to the previous debates 5 years ago.

We still have the same problems but they are worse than what they were 5 years ago.

Lower living standards, high housing costs, higher cost of living, same problems with imigrations (if you believe it's a problem, which clearly 6 of them don't), debt, deficit, etc. etc. etc.

This coalition goverment are an abject failure and you could argue that their policies have directly made the problems worse.

Can this be the lowest point for British politics in outr lifetime or will it get worse?

I do not trust the Conservatives, they are lieing scum.

Who the hell do I vote for?

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What is profound about these debates is comparing them to the previous debates 5 years ago.

We still have the same problems but they are worse than what they were 5 years ago.

Lower living standards, high housing costs, higher cost of living, same problems with imigrations (if you believe it's a problem, which clearly 6 of them don't), debt, deficit, etc. etc. etc.

This coalition goverment are an abject failure and you could argue that their policies have directly made the problems worse.

Can this be the lowest point for British politics in outr lifetime or will it get worse?

I do not trust the Conservatives, they are lieing scum.

Who the hell do I vote for?

I do not trust Labour, Lib Dems or Conservatives. Simply because they won't tell me what they will do if in power.

The three main parties are in denial in front of the electorate.

I don't doubt the three leaders know how fekked it all is in the UK, and how the economy, as they describe it, is just smoke and mirrors.

To think otherwise means they, and their civil servant advisors, really are thick, and I 'can't get my head around that' realisation.

The other 4 parties taking part last night are in the easy position that they won't have to deal with the problems, and so can speak as they feel, which seems refreshing. But like the other parties, they also haven't told me what they will do to fix it all.

Who the hell do I vote for ?

Edited by LiveinHope
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I'm at a lose to what people think is wrong with Farages view on HIV treatment. According to Wikipedia 33million people worldwide are infected with HIV, are those applauding Leanne woods comment suggesting we should pay for all their treatment? Or just those who some how end up in Britain?

Maybe we should just rename it the Global Health Service and be done with it.

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I do not trust Labour, Lib Dems or Conservatives. Simply because they won't tell me what they will do if in power.

The three main parties are in denial in front of the electorate.

I don't doubt the three leaders know how fekked it all is in the UK, and how the economy, as they describe it, is just smoke and mirrors.

To think otherwise means they, and their civil servant advisors, really are thick, and I 'can't get my head around that' realisation.

The other 4 parties taking part last night are in the easy position that they won't have to deal with the problems, and so can speak as they feel, which seems refreshing. But like the other parties, they also haven't told me what they will do to fix it all.

Who the hell do I vote for ?

Really? I thought they were very clear.

Top of my head, Bennett said the green party will build lots of council houses, stop the privatisation of the nhs which will be not for profit, stop all this austerity nonsense that has done so much counterproductive harm, fund local services, increase foreign aid budet and raise taxes on those who can afford them - the rich.

The most economically sound and hpc friendly policies of any party and all of which are ridiculed by the right precisely because they would actually work and make sense BUT deny rents to their supporters in the SE and US corporates.

SNP policies quite similar. In fact theres a very clear left coalition which is filling the void vacated by the libs/labour who are mostly Tory lite.

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The green lady said a lot of good things and came over as a genuine girl wanting to do much good for the common good......I would agree with much of what she said but anyone can say anything.......they may have the will, but they also have to have the means and ability for it for it to work, unexpected pressures come from all sources.....pennies from heaven. ;)

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Really? I thought they were very clear.

Top of my head, Bennett said the green party will build lots of council houses, stop the privatisation of the nhs which will be not for profit, stop all this austerity nonsense that has done so much counterproductive harm, fund local services, increase foreign aid budet and raise taxes on those who can afford them - the rich.

The most economically sound and hpc friendly policies of any party and all of which are ridiculed by the right precisely because they would actually work and make sense BUT deny rents to their supporters in the SE and US corporates.

SNP policies quite similar. In fact theres a very clear left coalition which is filling the void vacated by the libs/labour who are mostly Tory lite.

Apologies, my mistake in sloppy writing

i should have said.

But like the other parties, they also haven't told me how they will achieve what they have said they will do to fix it all

Stop austerity, tax this, tax that, give out more money, it's all make believe without a plan laid out clearly.

(given we don't have any money)

or perhaps the debate was just too superficial.

Edited by LiveinHope
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I almost expect that to be his plan, as anybody even remotely rightward leaning - ie someone who doesn't believe in magic money trees - must see that he's just speaking bald truth. After all that admission from everybody else that the NHS is creaking and groaning I wouldn't have thought an International NHS was defensible at all from anybody with two braincells to rub together.

Agreed, EUBanana.

For me, Farage's performance was about convincing the people who had already decided to vote for UKIP to actually do so. I didn't particularly sense any effort from him to extend the party's appeal further.

I like Farage and am broadly sympathetic to many UKIP policies. I don't have a racist bone in my body - it's not about race or nationality. It's about a profligate, dictatorial central government who can't successfully audit its own books whose open border policy results in brain drains from poorer countries who need their best and brightest and wage suppression/HPI in countries they emigrate to. I don't blame the people personally for coming here or going to Germany, etc - I would in their position. They're looking after their own - no problem with that at all.

However, I cringed when he made that comment. In many ways, his point was entirely valid and not anti-gay, anti-HIV, anti-AIDs etc. He could've been talking about cancer or another terrible illness.

But it's going to be seen as homophobic and heartless coming out of his mouth even though any one else on that stage who might have said it wouldn't have been judged in the same way (except from Cameron, perhaps).

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Apologies, my mistake in sloppy writing

i should have said.

But like the other parties, they also haven't told me how they will achieve what they have said they will do to fix it all

Stop austerity, tax this, tax that, give out more money, it's all make believe without a plan laid out clearly.

(given we don't have any money)

or perhaps the debate was just too superficial.

greens plan is costed (as far as Im aware)

I disagree with the emboldened bit. The debt isnt an issue and in any event cutting spending only increases it (as Tories have proved over last 5 years). The problem in terms of the electorate is that the Tories/dems and media have so convinced the public that govt spending is a "problem" to be solved by cutting it most people seem to actually believe it which is a shame because you then end up with govts like the current one.

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Agreed, EUBanana.

For me, Farage's performance was about convincing the people who had already decided to vote for UKIP to actually do so. I didn't particularly sense any effort from him to extend the party's appeal further.

I like Farage and am broadly sympathetic to many UKIP policies. I don't have a racist bone in my body - it's not about race or nationality. It's about a profligate, dictatorial central government who can't successfully audit its own books whose open border policy results in brain drains from poorer countries who need their best and brightest and wage suppression/HPI in countries they emigrate to. I don't blame the people personally for coming here or going to Germany, etc - I would in their position. They're looking after their own - no problem with that at all.

However, I cringed when he made that comment. In many ways, his point was entirely valid and not anti-gay, anti-HIV, anti-AIDs etc. He could've been talking about cancer or another terrible illness.

But it's going to be seen as homophobic and heartless coming out of his mouth even though any one else on that stage who might have said it wouldn't have been judged in the same way (except from Cameron, perhaps).

Exactly. Would have been better saying a sentence about the funding issues of the NHS and that it is not the National Health Service of the World, an example would be the amount of people the NHS treats for said aliments and the amount of money they don't get back from health tourism, or the open border policy.

As an aside to this a neighbour is an NHS accountant the figures he quotes and cases and the amount of money outstanding from treating people here who've either never paid a penny in or have gone back without coughing up is incredible. I can't write about the cases for obvious reasons.

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greens plan is costed (as far as Im aware)

I disagree with the emboldened bit. The debt isnt an issue and in any event cutting spending only increases it (as Tories have proved over last 5 years). The problem in terms of the electorate is that the Tories/dems and media have so convinced the public that govt spending is a "problem" to be solved by cutting it most people seem to actually believe it which is a shame because you then end up with govts like the current one.

But everywhere I look I see a society that is totally reliant upon money borrowed from the future, either directly or indirectly. I guess if we can always do that it's OK, everyone can promise everything.

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Top of my head, Bennett said the green party will build lots of council houses, stop the privatisation of the nhs which will be not for profit, stop all this austerity nonsense that has done so much counterproductive harm, fund local services, increase foreign aid budet and raise taxes on those who can afford them - the rich.

Bennett promised the earth with a cherry on top and told you someone else would pay for it.

And people fall for it!

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