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Hail the Tripod

This Is Why We Need A Citizens Income

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Ah, another automation thread.

Perhaps we'll see the sense by then in not automating jobs that people don't mind doing, unless there's a shortage of people capable of doing them. Perhaps a degree of automation so we don't have to work as many hours though.

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Ah, another automation thread.

Perhaps we'll see the sense by then in not automating jobs that people don't mind doing, unless there's a shortage of people capable of doing them. Perhaps a degree of automation so we don't have to work as many hours though.

I know it's been covered before, but I found that video amazing for demonstrating just how phenomenally widespread and how imminently this step-change in labour requirements is going to kick in.

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I know it's been covered before, but I found that video amazing for demonstrating just how phenomenally widespread and how imminently this step-change in labour requirements is going to kick in.

Indeed it has: I linked to it several days ago in the "technology destroy jobs" thread on the MF, thus bringing said thread back to the front page - but nobody commented on the video itself....

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This future of exponential technological development isn't going to happen.

To start with it relies on an infinite appetite for consumption by human beings. That doesn't exist outside of an economist's imagination.

Next, an increasingly interconnected, technological, just-in-time economy will be vulnerable to system shock and collapse as all the co-dependant systems lose redundancy in their strive for production and efficiency. Once the first domino goes the cascade will be unstoppable.

Then there's the fact that all those millions of people are living without normal human drives and incentives. Degeneracy will be rife and society will collapse from within. It's no coincidence that the most advanced and wealthy societies are located in the most difficult environments on earth. Necessity is the mother of invention and if humans have no need to strive then they won't. I just don't see people accepting their status as human pets to a benevolent technological master. It'll lead to an acceleration of the demographic death we see everywhere in the developed world.

Civilisations go through stages of growth and decay. As they age they become victims of their success, losing vigor and becoming ripe for plundering.

Enjoy it whilst you can 'cos it won't last forever.

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Anyone who thinks 'Citizens Income' is a solution, doesn't understand the problem.

Automation on that scale would change everything about society, yet people act as though it will all be just the same except they'll have no jobs. It's crazy.

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Anyone who thinks 'Citizens Income' is a solution, doesn't understand the problem.

Automation on that scale would change everything about society, yet people act as though it will all be just the same except they'll have no jobs. It's crazy.

Not a solution maybe, but certainly a necessary part of the societal changes necessary to facilitate a smooth transition to a world where labour has no value. To entitle people to a share of the wealth simply because they're part of our society, without necessarily trading their labour for it is an essential step. Once a level of technology is reached where human labour is entirely valueless I suppose money itself becomes entirely irrelevant. I don't know what that society looks like, it could be millions on the breadline and a tiny few with unimaginable wealth and power, or it could be great wealth for everyone, or something in between (I don't see how). I think this demonstrated the urgency of the need to start moving to the wealth for everyone model, regardless of them contributing their labour. If 90% of existing jobs are going to disappear in the next 30 years and that proportion of the population are essentially disenfranchised it'll be disastrous.

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Indeed it has: I linked to it several days ago in the "technology destroy jobs" thread on the MF, thus bringing said thread back to the front page - but nobody commented on the video itself....

Sorry, didn't see it. I almost never venture onto the main forum.

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90% of jobs probably don't need doing in the first place.

You need to keep the humans occupied though or an awful lot would be out murdering, raping, thieving or paying attention.

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Anyone who thinks 'Citizens Income' is a solution, doesn't understand the problem.

Automation on that scale would change everything about society, yet people act as though it will all be just the same except they'll have no jobs. It's crazy.

What does 'Job' mean define it......something that keeps people busy, something someone does because it needs to be done like washing clothes or is it something you do only to earn money.......what do people need to require to live?....what do they need to earn to live?...how many hours do they need to work for money to live?

Earn £20 per week....outgoings £18 per week.....save £2 per week. ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBjnrHfaEbA

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I'd like a CI for purely selfish reasons.........no state retirement pension (yet) no housing benefit, no working tax credit, not anything, not one penny. But it won't happen. When you divide out the welfare between the entire population it seems quite a lot and you do feel a bit jealous getting nowt.

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90% of jobs probably don't need doing in the first place.

You need to keep the humans occupied though or an awful lot would be out murdering, raping, thieving or paying attention.

Quite, which is why I question the wisdom of automation for anything other than the dangerous and unpleasant stuff. After that just split the work between more people so that we can work less, but still have some. How to achieve that is a problem though, and one that I can't see how a citizen's income is supposed to solve. The people still working will still try to keep most of the work to get most of the pay and resent the high taxes required to pay everyone.

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Just listened to an automated PPI message left on my answering machine.

Next step is to program it to call back and say.

"No, my master has never had PPI"

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90% of jobs probably don't need doing in the first place.

You need to keep the humans occupied though or an awful lot would be out murdering, raping, thieving or paying attention.

^ is the right answer IMO.

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