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Scooter

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I went out last night to a Thai restaurant with a few friends. This includes a couple who know my views on an impending HPC and never fail to wind me up about why what I have been predicting since 2002 has not really happened. Unfortunately a few drinks in I rose to the bait and yelled my head off at them about loose credit, obscene asking prices in North London and my very firm commitment not to enrich a seller whose only talent has been to sit tight during a bubble and expect to collect on the inflation. I was then lectured on how I will only get what I want (a four bed garden flat) by paying a seven figure sum and how lots of flats below £600,000 are flying off the EA's shelves, as it were, and that the best stuff never makes it to the wider public, never mind I see the exact same properties sitting unsold for months and in some cases years. Am I the only one who gets in these situations and am I spending too much time on this site? Seriously, I could have pulled someone's head off, not helped by some fat, very loud bird from Essex on a nearby table who felt the need to regale the entire restaurant with her version of Little Britain and the Catherine Tate Show. Hilarious. Waiting for a crash surrounded by smug idiots can be very frustrating...I hope they lose the rooves over their ludicrously overpriced homes. :angry:

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I went out last night to a Thai restaurant with a few friends. This includes a couple who know my views on an impending HPC and never fail to wind me up about why what I have been predicting since 2002 has not really happened. Unfortunately a few drinks in I rose to the bait and yelled my head off at them about loose credit, obscene asking prices in North London and my very firm commitment not to enrich a seller whose only talent has been to sit tight during a bubble and expect to collect on the inflation. I was then lectured on how I will only get what I want (a four bed garden flat) by paying a seven figure sum and how lots of flats below £600,000 are flying off the EA's shelves, as it were, and that the best stuff never makes it to the wider public, never mind I see the exact same properties sitting unsold for months and in some cases years. Am I the only one who gets in these situations and am I spending too much time on this site? Seriously, I could have pulled someone's head off, not helped by some fat, very loud bird from Essex on a nearby table who felt the need to regale the entire restaurant with her version of Little Britain and the Catherine Tate Show. Hilarious. Waiting for a crash surrounded by smug idiots can be very frustrating...I hope they lose the rooves over their ludicrously overpriced homes. :angry:

Find some new friends mate. Your current lot are a bunch of c***s!

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Find some new friends mate. Your current lot are a bunch of c***s!

That sounds like a practical answer. Actually they are mostly alright and people I have known for ten years or more and the rest of ther evening was fine. I just lost it a bit as house price discussions are guaranteed to get me wound up and I had really planned to avoid the subject. Also, I get told off at home for getting obsesssed with a HPC so unfortunately it all erupted last night unplanned.

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Its hard to face that the situation is as it is now.

but it is changing.

sipps.

BTL mortgages refused against new builds..

the country is whinning about a recession being caused by IR's at 4.5%

I can fly of a little sometimes..

I was being lectured by someone at work who thought I should be embracing an Interest Only mortgage despite the fact thatI could hardly afford the interest..

1: People are used to high house price inflation

2: People like high house price inflation

3: People have now got into situations where they rely on their houseprices.

4: People are scared that prices are dropping.

We are living in frustration, many though are living in fear.

you think you are worried.

Say I was a prize winning **** and I had embraced say a £180,000 intersest only mortgage (devon) against a two bed flat..

Say I had seen these drops already this year.

Say I now saw the Sipps issue and the refusal of BTL mortgages against new builds..

I would be terrified.

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That sounds like a practical answer. Actually they are mostly alright and people I have known for ten years or more and the rest of ther evening was fine. I just lost it a bit as house price discussions are guaranteed to get me wound up and I had really planned to avoid the subject. Also, I get told off at home for getting obsesssed with a HPC so unfortunately it all erupted last night unplanned.

In my harsh view every 5 years or so you're due for a relationships clearout. Let's face it unless they really are true friends after that length of time you're surrounded by hangers on you have nothing left in common with.

Edited by Culpability Brown

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In my harsh view every 5 years or so you're due for a relationships clearout. Let's face it unless they really are true friends after that length of time you're surrounded by hangers on you have nothing left in common with.

That is fairly ruthless-I like it! :lol:

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Its hard to face that the situation is as it is now.

but it is changing.

sipps.

BTL mortgages refused against new builds..

the country is whinning about a recession being caused by IR's at 4.5%

I can fly of a little sometimes..

I was being lectured by someone at work who thought I should be embracing an Interest Only mortgage despite the fact thatI could hardly afford the interest..

1: People are used to high house price inflation

2: People like high house price inflation

3: People have now got into situations where they rely on their houseprices.

4: People are scared that prices are dropping.

We are living in frustration, many though are living in fear.

you think you are worried.

Say I was a prize winning **** and I had embraced say a £180,000 intersest only mortgage (devon) against a two bed flat..

Say I had seen these drops already this year.

Say I now saw the Sipps issue and the refusal of BTL mortgages against new builds..

I would be terrified.

True apom - but fortunately you have a brain and were not bypassed by evolution!

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Its hard to face that the situation is as it is now.

but it is changing.

sipps.

BTL mortgages refused against new builds..

the country is whinning about a recession being caused by IR's at 4.5%

I can fly of a little sometimes..

I was being lectured by someone at work who thought I should be embracing an Interest Only mortgage despite the fact thatI could hardly afford the interest..

1: People are used to high house price inflation

2: People like high house price inflation

3: People have now got into situations where they rely on their houseprices.

4: People are scared that prices are dropping.

We are living in frustration, many though are living in fear.

you think you are worried.

Say I was a prize winning **** and I had embraced say a £180,000 intersest only mortgage (devon) against a two bed flat..

Say I had seen these drops already this year.

Say I now saw the Sipps issue and the refusal of BTL mortgages against new builds..

I would be terrified.

I think I mostly just want to be proved right. Most people I know just cannot conceive of anything worse than a bit of a slowdown. Sorry, very old ground for this forum...

Edited by Scooter

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I think I mostly just want to be proved right. Most people I know just cannot conceive of anything worse than a bit of a slowdown. Sorry, very old ground for this forum...

I would think that for modern new build flats currently under development about 50% would have been expected to have been bought by

sipps investors

BTL investors.

after this week...

Opps :)

its been a great week

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True apom - but fortunately you have a brain and were not bypassed by evolution!

Not entirely the case..

I am getting concerend that my eyebrows are growing longer and longer as the years tick by.

but thank you anyway..

the last time I got a little cros was when mr "its all free money" was talking about investing in Turkey now that they were a member of the Eu..

I poitned out that they were not yet.. and had only enterred negotiations.. negotiations which will take years..

I was told I don't know what I was talking about and leave such discussion to men..

1: I was right

2: If you define men as being old, fat, weak and well... well wrong actually then he had a point.

3: I am not a violent man.. but when someone sneers at me.. it does make me understand why some will get upset..

4: I am a smug git, and being right.. and knowing that they were wrong.. left me wandering of feeling smug..

bless em..

a fool and his money is soon parted.. at the moment fools are swapping their money between each other.

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In my harsh view every 5 years or so you're due for a relationships clearout. Let's face it unless they really are true friends after that length of time you're surrounded by hangers on you have nothing left in common with.

I completely agree. I detest people who acquire friends to boost their sense of well being. I've let most of the people I've known over the years 'drop away' as I've decided they weren't worth the effort. I have about five people who I have know for 5-25 years who I know I will always be able to call on and vice versa, even if we haven't spoken for a year, any more 'friends' than that is a waste of christmas cards. A good way of clearing out useless friends is to become very religious...only the most loyal and steadfast hang on through a 3 hour drunken sermon! (drink is the second best way to lose friends and wives, any advice I'd be happy to help!)

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Quite frankly I just stay out of housing debates. You won't do yourself any good.

Consider what would have happened telling people in 1999 that the internet bubble would crash and shares would fall 90%.

They'd think you were raving mad.

When people ask when I'm going to buy again, I just tell them when I see a property that I think offers good value.

Then I change the subject.

You could try reading a few of the books on the madness of crowd behaviour, just to place this current event in context.

Edited by BandWagon

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In my harsh view every 5 years or so you're due for a relationships clearout.

Never thought of it like this before. V interesting.

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Scooter your friends are only stating reality as they see it, and right now beleive they are offering best advice. However if they are indeed gloating at what they perceive as your misfortune, then as another post advised, its time to get new friends. But I think that is the trouble with coming on here somes times, it tends to polarise people into Them and Us.

Look assuminng there is a next time, and if they start again , which I doubt if you really blew your top :rolleyes:

Just say, look you know the position I've adopted regards what I see as a market positioning itself for a substancial correction, and I appreciate that you all being committed to the market via your mortgages will appose my view. So that said, lets just all keep our own council in regard to those matters.....and do what we set out to do in the first place........having a good night out ......and possibly a bit of partner swopping at the end of the evening.............but I hope you all appreciate it will have to be back to her place which ever lucky lady wins me for the night , as her name wont appear on my tenancy agreement :D

Edited by Catch22

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I went out last night to a Thai restaurant with a few friends. This includes a couple who know my views on an impending HPC and never fail to wind me up about why what I have been predicting since 2002 has not really happened. Unfortunately a few drinks in I rose to the bait and yelled my head off at them about loose credit, obscene asking prices in North London and my very firm commitment not to enrich a seller whose only talent has been to sit tight during a bubble and expect to collect on the inflation. I was then lectured on how I will only get what I want (a four bed garden flat) by paying a seven figure sum and how lots of flats below £600,000 are flying off the EA's shelves, as it were, and that the best stuff never makes it to the wider public, never mind I see the exact same properties sitting unsold for months and in some cases years. Am I the only one who gets in these situations and am I spending too much time on this site?

Hrm, just nod and smile and change the subject, if anyone asks just say your investments are doing better in other markets right now and property seems to have "topped" and that is has had a good run but like all "good things" that has come to an end. If they don't believe anything every "corrects" just drop a mention of the dotcom boom where silly prices were justified only by silly reasoning, this will plant a question in their heads even if they don't really take it in, just make them appreciate that things go down as well as up.

Or just shut up entirely, and say "hrm, that' nice" or "you're right. I think I may spend £250k on a rabbit hutch" if you get a little frustrated :)

Edited by BuyingBear

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Scooter mate, you have my sympathies.

My wife and I went to a new pub in our new area (Walthamstow) last night. Met up with someone who had just bought a house in the area and someone else who has just bought a flat. When we said we were renting they both started on the usual rants about dead money.

I said 'look mate, I have owned property but we just decided to rent a whole house instead of pay the mortgage on a poky flat."

I then regretted it, because it made me look (to their eyes) like a numpty and definitely like a lesser mortal. Everyone in our family owns expect for me and they all feel sorry for me etc.

We moved from the area that you are looking to buy in because , to be brutally honest, I couldn't face paying the mortgage on our poky 2 bed flat. I bought at the peak and sold at the peak, so just about got my money out. That makes me a STR who held onto his initial capital not a STR who has made a mint.

We originally moved 'up' from our poky one bed to a poky 2 bed. That 'upgrade' in a posh area was ludicrously expensive. The whole thing is a joke.

To be honest, I am beyond caring whether prices crash or not. I am just happy to have that big loan off my back. Time will tell whether I made the right decision but the experience of my first 'upgrade' taught me that if prices continue to rise I will never be able to afford a second 'upgrade' because the differential between poky 2 bed flat and decent house will be too big in London.

The whole thing does piss me off. Of course I kick myself for not upgrading earlier, but I was working abroad and missed out on the early leg of the house price inflation, anyway, I was blissfully unaware of the BTL craze and the whole bubble mania in the UK.

It all pisses me off....

Rant over - have a great weekend folks.

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Scooter mate, you have my sympathies.

My wife and I went to a new pub in our new area (Walthamstow) last night. Met up with someone who had just bought a house in the area and someone else who has just bought a flat. When we said we were renting they both started on the usual rants about dead money.

I said 'look mate, I have owned property but we just decided to rent a whole house instead of pay the mortgage on a poky flat."

I then regretted it, because it made me look (to their eyes) like a numpty and definitely like a lesser mortal. Everyone in our family owns expect for me and they all feel sorry for me etc.

We moved from the area that you are looking to buy in because , to be brutally honest, I couldn't face paying the mortgage on our poky 2 bed flat. I bought at the peak and sold at the peak, so just about got my money out. That makes me a STR who held onto his initial capital not a STR who has made a mint.

We originally moved 'up' from our poky one bed to a poky 2 bed. That 'upgrade' in a posh area was ludicrously expensive. The whole thing is a joke.

To be honest, I am beyond caring whether prices crash or not. I am just happy to have that big loan off my back. Time will tell whether I made the right decision but the experience of my first 'upgrade' taught me that if prices continue to rise I will never be able to afford a second 'upgrade' because the differential between poky 2 bed flat and decent house will be too big in London.

The whole thing does piss me off. Of course I kick myself for not upgrading earlier, but I was working abroad and missed out on the early leg of the house price inflation, anyway, I was blissfully unaware of the BTL craze and the whole bubble mania in the UK.

It all pisses me off....

Rant over - have a great weekend folks.

I find the home ownership over renting argument a poor one. The only thing that makes ownership better is if the mortgage repayment is cheaper than renting (or quivalent capital investment returns). BTL is the same argument and what is happening right now defies logic.

Q

To what extent do people (with mortgages) 'own' their properties ?

A

To the extent that the bank holds the title deeds and will do until they have full payment (which they can demand at anytime!). Try missing one or two repayments and see just how long you 'own your house'.

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Quite frankly I just stay out of housing debates. You won't do yourself any good.

Consider what would have happened telling people in 1999 that the internet bubble would crash and shares would fall 90%.

They'd think you were raving mad.

When people ask when I'm going to buy again, I just tell them when I see a property that I think offers good value.

Then I change the subject.

You could try reading a few of the books on the madness of crowd behaviour, just to place this current event in context.

I agree. Had I been sober, I would have just avoided it altogether as I had intended.

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Am I the only one who gets in these situations and am I spending too much time on this site?

Take some time away form looking at this site every day. I've found it wasn't good for me. I'm a whole lot more relaxed now I only visit every now and again.

Edited by NJP

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i would not talk about it. if they pipe up tell them your not interested and nibble on another poppadum.

Yep, that is what I will try and do next time. Unfortunately alchohol got the better of me... :rolleyes:

Scooter your friends are only stating reality as they see it, and right now beleive they are offering best advice. However if they are indeed gloating at what they perceive as your misfortune, then as another post advised, its time to get new friends. But I think that is the trouble with coming on here somes times, it tends to polarise people into Them and Us.

Look assuminng there is a next time, and if they start again , which I doubt if you really blew your top :rolleyes:

Just say, look you know the position I've adopted regards what I see as a market positioning itself for a substancial correction, and I appreciate that you all being committed to the market via your mortgages will appose my view. So that said, lets just all keep our own council in regard to those matters.....and do what we set out to do in the first place........having a good night out ......and possibly a bit of partner swopping at the end of the evening.............but I hope you all appreciate it will have to be back to her place which ever lucky lady wins me for the night , as her name wont appear on my tenancy agreement :D

Ah, you sound very reasonable, far more than I usually am. They probably do believe what they are saying but they know my views and set out to rile me so they got what they wanted. To be honest, I am not in a particularly bad situation at all as I own my flat since '95 with virtually no mortgage left. I just got angry at the idea of trading up to something bigger, which I want to do and giving my fairly hard earned cash to some cabbage asking an outrageous price for it. I would be delighted to see my flat decline substantially in value if it was mirrored elsewhere obviously.

Actually I think partner swapping was vaguely on the agenda but really not my thing (not in this case anyway :) )

Take some time away form looking at this site every day. I've found it wasn't good for me. I'm a whole lot more relaxed now I only visit every now and again.

Yes, I really must try to do this. I find it very hard to avoid looking every couple of hours.

Hrm, just nod and smile and change the subject, if anyone asks just say your investments are doing better in other markets right now and property seems to have "topped" and that is has had a good run but like all "good things" that has come to an end. If they don't believe anything every "corrects" just drop a mention of the dotcom boom where silly prices were justified only by silly reasoning, this will plant a question in their heads even if they don't really take it in, just make them appreciate that things go down as well as up.

Or just shut up entirely, and say "hrm, that' nice" or "you're right. I think I may spend £250k on a rabbit hutch" if you get a little frustrated :)

I have hit them with my gold shares, mining unit trusts, Japanese UTs etc, 30% annual gains, all that and I really have had a great year with other investments . What I get in reply is "it all sounds a bit risky. I would prefer a BTL. Property always goes up in the longterm etc." Honestly, this is what supposedly quite bright people come back with...

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For the first time ever I’m cancelling my annual drink with old school friends.

The last few years have been terrible for me (STR to break chain, then made redundant)

They always ask when I’m going to buy, and I always say possibly next year.

They don’t understand why I believe house prices will fall, and I’ve been saying it for years now.

I don’t feel like going through all that explaining and theorising the common sense attitude of

a house price correction/crash. Then get confronted by blank-looks.

Unfortunately dinner table talk usually ends up on the topic of house prices, especially lately,

when houses have been making more money in a year, than the people living in them earn.

I just don’t want to face that again this year. :(

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For the first time ever I’m cancelling my annual drink with old school friends.

The last few years have been terrible for me (STR to break chain, then made redundant)

They always ask when I’m going to buy, and I always say possibly next year.

They don’t understand why I believe house prices will fall, and I’ve been saying it for years now.

I don’t feel like going through all that explaining and theorising the common sense attitude of

a house price correction/crash. Then get confronted by blank-looks.

Unfortunately dinner table talk usually ends up on the topic of house prices, especially lately,

when houses have been making more money in a year, than the people living in them earn.

I just don’t want to face that again this year. :(

It is depressing having those conversations. Sorry to hear about your redundancy. I still think we will all be proved correct, even though it is taking a stupidly long time but I agree with you that I cannot be bothered so much now to try and explain it to people who just cannot conceive of an alternative view (although they could say the same of me).

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Quite frankly I just stay out of housing debates. You won't do yourself any good.

Consider what would have happened telling people in 1999 that the internet bubble would crash and shares would fall 90%.

They'd think you were raving mad.

When people ask when I'm going to buy again, I just tell them when I see a property that I think offers good value.

Then I change the subject.

You could try reading a few of the books on the madness of crowd behaviour, just to place this current event in context.

I second that. Had a work drink(s) yesterday. The issue came up, of course I was in the minority (despite being one of the youngest) and decided to briefly outline my opinion. Rather than go through the usual tug or war debate, and not wanting to seem like a cheeky young whipper-snapper, I found refuge in the bottom of a pint glass and pack of 20 regal. Much easier. Until in the morning you wake to find you've typed some incomprehensible stuff on hpc in your enibriated stupor.

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I second that. Had a work drink(s) yesterday. The issue came up, of course I was in the minority (despite being one of the youngest) and decided to briefly outline my opinion. Rather than go through the usual tug or war debate, and not wanting to seem like a cheeky young whipper-snapper, I found refuge in the bottom of a pint glass and pack of 20 regal. Much easier. Until in the morning you wake to find you've typed some incomprehensible stuff on hpc in your enibriated stupor.

I think it was the pint glass that got me there in the first place but yes, I will try to avoid these discussions in future (until it has undeniably happened then I will rub the bastards' noses in it forever. :angry: )

Edited by Scooter

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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