SpectrumFX Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 This is why I believe we won't have mixed-use private auto-cars and manual cars on roads together. Eg an auto-car will not be able to do the little things that keep the traffic moving. They won't be able, for example, to let drivers into streams of traffic, or drive on the wrong side of the road to pass an obstruction, etc. It will only work on designated roads, bus lanes or motorway lanes with complex monitoring systems, just as fast motor traffic is only allowed currently on certain types of road where pedestrians and cyclists are not permitted to travel because of the problems of safe interaction. They're just software problems. A driverless car will do both of those things providing that it is programmed to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManVsRecession Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) How are these safe robot cars going to cope with the following scenario; A group of youths step out in front of the car and it stops because it can't run them down. One miscreant smashes the window and mugs the passengers knowing the car will not move/mow down his mates. The car would immediately call the police, and send them footage of the assailants. Police computers will instantly match the ID. One or more drones are on the scene within 20 seconds, depending on how many assailants there are. The drones would track them until the police arrived to arrest them. If their faces were covered, this would have been noticed by other cars, who would have called the police to the area before the attack happened. Basically they wouldn't get away with it, so they wouldn't try. Edited June 10, 2015 by ManVsRecession Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManVsRecession Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I heard on the radio that in legal terms, auto-cars correspond to a lot of old laws about horse drawn vehicles, eg, an auto-car that had a software meltdown and ran someone over would be viewed more or less in the same way as a horse that bolted and killed someone, as sometimes happened in the old days. The other thing with horse drawn carriages is that the owner of the carriage often wasn't the owner of the horses pulling it. They were provided by the stables near where you happened to be. Following the same principle, most private "cars" will be simply be passenger / storage compartments, built to various levels of luxury depending on your budget. They will self attach to moving chassis units owned by a large company, and rented / hired on the fly when needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Allegro Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 They're just software problems. A driverless car will do both of those things providing that it is programmed to do so. But say you're in a long line of traffic and you see a kindly old lady in her Austin Maxi sitting patiently waiting to get into the stream of traffic, unable to do so. You flash your lights and nod her in, and she gets to the bingo on time. That wouldn't happen with an auto-car because it couldn't be programmed to make those sort of random human decisions. It would only work if all cars are automated and the entire flow of traffic is regulated. On a more serious note, say your passenger has a heart attack. You know the hospital is just a few miles away along a stretch of 40mph road. In that situation, I wouldn't hesitate to drive at 60mph on that road with my lights on, sounding the horn, to get to the hospital. An auto-car wouldn't do that and the alternative would be to stop the vehicle, call an ambulance and wait for it to arrive, in which time the person may be dead. I suppose there could be some sort of emergency override that allowed the car to break speed limits, but how would you stop it being abused? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpectrumFX Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 But say you're in a long line of traffic and you see a kindly old lady in her Austin Maxi sitting patiently waiting to get into the stream of traffic, unable to do so. You flash your lights and nod her in, and she gets to the bingo on time. That wouldn't happen with an auto-car because it couldn't be programmed to make those sort of random human decisions. It would only work if all cars are automated and the entire flow of traffic is regulated. On a more serious note, say your passenger has a heart attack. You know the hospital is just a few miles away along a stretch of 40mph road. In that situation, I wouldn't hesitate to drive at 60mph on that road with my lights on, sounding the horn, to get to the hospital. An auto-car wouldn't do that and the alternative would be to stop the vehicle, call an ambulance and wait for it to arrive, in which time the person may be dead. I suppose there could be some sort of emergency override that allowed the car to break speed limits, but how would you stop it being abused? A driverless car could be programmed to let in any manually driven vehicle that had been detected waiting to be let in for a preset period of time. Again it's just a choice in the programming, the car follows a preset series of rules that it's been given. We can program it to drive like a ******* or a gentleman. There's no reason that a driverless car couldn't be authorised upon detection or notification of an urgent medical problem to effectively become a de facto ambulance. With a critical mass of driverless cars and a decent set of traffic management protocols and procedures all of the other traffic would melt away in front of it, with the other networked driverless cars "herding" all of the manually driven cars to keep them out of the way. So you'd get to an A&E very very quickly. I'd expect any such overrides to be logged, so any abuse could be automatically recorded and easily dealt with. (By the time we have driverless cars we'll probably also have panopticon style monitoring of everything we do, certainly everything we do in traffic.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) A driverless car could be programmed to let in any manually driven vehicle that had been detected waiting to be let in for a preset period of time. Again it's just a choice in the programming, the car follows a preset series of rules that it's been given. We can program it to drive like a ******* or a gentleman. There's no reason that a driverless car couldn't be authorised upon detection or notification of an urgent medical problem to effectively become a de facto ambulance. With a critical mass of driverless cars and a decent set of traffic management protocols and procedures all of the other traffic would melt away in front of it, with the other networked driverless cars "herding" all of the manually driven cars to keep them out of the way. So you'd get to an A&E very very quickly. I'd expect any such overrides to be logged, so any abuse could be automatically recorded and easily dealt with. (By the time we have driverless cars we'll probably also have panopticon style monitoring of everything we do, certainly everything we do in traffic.) and ambulance drones though obviously not whilst Osborne has banned all public spending Edited June 10, 2015 by R K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
council dweller Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Driverless trams? How about getting such a system working Nationwide first? And Cambridge has guided bus ways....what the fu ck`s that about I have no idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wherebee Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 The car would immediately call the police, and send them footage of the assailants. Police computers will instantly match the ID. One or more drones are on the scene within 20 seconds, depending on how many assailants there are. The drones would track them until the police arrived to arrest them. If their faces were covered, this would have been noticed by other cars, who would have called the police to the area before the attack happened. Basically they wouldn't get away with it, so they wouldn't try. ahahah you any idea how much money would be required for that sort of LEA response? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SillyBilly Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I personally dread them. The 2.5 hours or so a day I commute will turn the 9 hour office day into a 11.5 hour office day. It'll become expected or at least implied that you should be working if able to do. That is my understanding of how a lot of employers work. Just like with work email and smartphones, it'll lead to further encroachment of work into downtime. If I thought I could be sat in the back with my feet up watching a film then maybe it might appeal but I don't see it. No doubt, we'll be doing a teleconference with head office from our car on the M4 at 7:30am. Weren't we sold a vision of being people of leisure due to technological advancement by now? So far as I can tell, its gone the other way. More pressure on the job market by displacement so more people prepared to work longer, harder and for less. When I think about it I am not sure that the internet or the technological revolution of the last decade has made my life any better or more enjoyable. I'm in my 20's too and am very tech savvy. I was in the pub the other day and I looked around, everyone tapping on smartphones, who needs conversation eh? I know change is coming, I just don't buy it'll improve my life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 There is a lot to be said about having a car without a computer or satnav,not having a smart phone only a payg old style that is turned off until a call needs to be made and driving where very few cctv......uncontactable and invisible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SillyBilly Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 There is a lot to be said about having a car without a computer or satnav,not having a smart phone only a payg old style that is turned off until a call needs to be made and driving where very few cctv......uncontactable and invisible. Yep, sometimes you do want to drop off the radar for a bit. Increasingly more difficult to do. Seems like everything is geared to making sure we can go interactive at a moment's notice, dial into anywhere in the world, connect to anybody or anything. This'll enrich our lives no end and make things so much easier we're told! This all comes at a cost. Nothing beats going out for a for a walk and not taking anything with me, its absolute bliss. My girlfriend thinks I am weird! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Allegro Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 I personally dread them. The 2.5 hours or so a day I commute will turn the 9 hour office day into a 11.5 hour office day. It'll become expected or at least implied that you should be working if able to do. That is my understanding of how a lot of employers work. Just like with work email and smartphones, it'll lead to further encroachment of work into downtime. If I thought I could be sat in the back with my feet up watching a film then maybe it might appeal but I don't see it. No doubt, we'll be doing a teleconference with head office from our car on the M4 at 7:30am. Weren't we sold a vision of being people of leisure due to technological advancement by now? So far as I can tell, its gone the other way. More pressure on the job market by displacement so more people prepared to work longer, harder and for less. When I think about it I am not sure that the internet or the technological revolution of the last decade has made my life any better or more enjoyable. I'm in my 20's too and am very tech savvy. I was in the pub the other day and I looked around, everyone tapping on smartphones, who needs conversation eh? I know change is coming, I just don't buy it'll improve my life. At least we live in a society where you can still opt out of this nonsense if you wish. The financial independence/early retirement extreme movement seems to be gaining strength in the US and is starting in the UK too. I downsized to part time work years ago and have never felt better. I don't have a smartphone, crackberry, etc and my colleagues know I won't work outside contracted hours. If you're in your 20s you have a big advantage over people like me (I'm in my forties) who only 'saw the light' a few years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
council dweller Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Yes, as I`ve said before I`ve retired at 55, have no phone, no TV....just a laptop. My Nissan van has lasted me 22 years and is coming to the end now. What to do? My old dad ended up on a Honda c50, I`ll probably start riding a Chinese 125 step thru shortly (auto clutch, 4 speed, 140 mpg!) Let`s go forward into the past!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Allegro Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 (edited) Yes, as I`ve said before I`ve retired at 55, have no phone, no TV....just a laptop. My Nissan van has lasted me 22 years and is coming to the end now. What to do? My old dad ended up on a Honda c50, I`ll probably start riding a Chinese 125 step thru shortly (auto clutch, 4 speed, 140 mpg!) Let`s go forward into the past!. Honda c50! Luxury! I make do with a 25 year old second hand bicycle. However, I am able to borrow a relative's 17 year old Japanese hatchback if necessary! It doesn't bother me because I only have to work 3 days a week from home and can jet off for a frugal few weeks in the sun whenever I like. Edited June 11, 2015 by Austin Allegro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManVsRecession Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 ahahah you any idea how much money would be required for that sort of LEA response? No more than our current network of CCTV cameras. Drones are cheap, and will only get cheaper. In major cities there will be thousands in the air at any one time, so there will be a good number just a few seconds away. All solar charged of course via panels on their base-stations. So, after the capital cost, they're practically free to run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
council dweller Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Yes, my old man started to ride his C50 at 68 ...never ridden before. 35 mph! Bloody lethal... Was driving my van down an A road yesterday....55 mph. !0 mph still in hand on a 65mph modern step thru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Unmanned cars are bound to get into trouble from time to time so somewhere there will be a vast call centre with qualified drivers in it taking over panicked cars and driving them by remote control until the computer can take over again. The remote driver will cover situations like when a car is forced offroad to avoid an obstacle, or being directed by a police officer or just needs to know whether it should wait or choose a different route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Allegro Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Unmanned cars are bound to get into trouble from time to time so somewhere there will be a vast call centre with qualified drivers in it taking over panicked cars and driving them by remote control until the computer can take over again. The remote driver will cover situations like when a car is forced offroad to avoid an obstacle, or being directed by a police officer or just needs to know whether it should wait or choose a different route. Good point...the car starts acting oddly, so you press the 'support' button...the loudspeaker crackles loudly and some Vivaldi plays then you are connected to 'Arthur' who has a distinctly Indian sounding voice. There's a lot of noise in the background and a two second delay when you speak to him. He switches to 'guided control' and starts steering you through the streets of Surbiton. It's all going well until you crash because he's mixed you up with the map for Islamabad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
council dweller Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 lol! that takes some doing with a mouth full of cheese on toast) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Allegro Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 (edited) lol! that takes some doing with a mouth full of cheese on toast) I can imagine a large operations room with one of those big wartime battle maps, not of Germany but of Birmingham...with a lot of stressed out Indians pushing with rods not models of tanks and planes, but little dinky toy cars and constantly talking through headsets like Lt Uhura out of Star Trek...'But sir, I am assuring you that your car should now be arriving in IKEA in Sm...Smith...Smegwick...yes, Smethwick that is what I am saying...please don't be shouting at me I am only doing my job... Edited June 11, 2015 by Austin Allegro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
council dweller Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Well I was brought up watching Tomorrow`s world on TV. Have you thought how much life has changed since then? ....it hasn't changed much for me, I`ve welcomed with open arms the things that improve my life (lap top, digital watch, ukulele tuner !) and rejected the rest. Am I wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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