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R K

A Genetic Map Of The British Isles

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http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2015-03-19-who-do-you-think-you-really-are-genetic-map-british-isles

http://www.nature.com/news/british-isles-mapped-out-by-genetic-ancestry-1.17136

By constructing the first fine-scale map of the British Isles, Oxford University researchers have uncovered distinct geographical groupings of genetically similar individuals across the UK.

The study, published in the journal Nature, found that:

  • There was no single 'Celtic' genetic group. In fact the Celtic parts of the UK (Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales and Cornwall) are among the most different from each other genetically. For example, the Cornish are much more similar genetically to other English groups than they are to the Welsh or the Scots.
  • There are separate genetic groups in Cornwall in Devon, with a division almost exactly along the modern county boundary.
  • The majority of eastern, central and southern England is made up of a single, relatively homogeneous, genetic group with a significant DNA contribution from Anglo-Saxon migrations (10-40% of total ancestry). This settles a historical controversy in showing that the Anglo-Saxons intermarried with, rather than replaced, the existing populations.
  • The population in Orkney emerged as the most genetically distinct, with 25% of DNA coming from Norwegian ancestors. This shows clearly that the Norse Viking invasion (9th century) did not simply replace the indigenous Orkney population.
  • The Welsh appear more similar to the earliest settlers of Britain after the last ice age than do other people in the UK.
  • There is no obvious genetic signature of the Danish Vikings, who controlled large parts of England ('The Danelaw') from the 9th century.
  • There is genetic evidence of the effect of the Landsker line – the boundary between English-speaking people in south-west Pembrokeshire (sometimes known as 'Little England beyond Wales') and the Welsh speakers in the rest of Wales, which persisted for almost a millennium.
  • The analyses suggest there was a substantial migration across the channel after the original post-ice-age settlers, but before Roman times. DNA from these migrants spread across England, Scotland, and Northern Ireland, but had little impact in Wales.
  • Many of the genetic clusters show similar locations to the tribal groupings and kingdoms around end of the 6th century, after the settlement of the Anglo-Saxons, suggesting these tribes and kingdoms may have maintained a regional identity for many centuries

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That figures for me, as far as I am aware all ancestry comes from the homogeneous inter-marrying Anglo Saxons of the South East/ Midlands barring one Jacobite ancestor that was lost in the retreat with Bonny Prince Charlie...and I still bear his surname.

In other words a total evolutionary dead end about to be replaced by the superior mixed race individuals with a variety of DNA.

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For me, it confiirms basically that the lowland Scots (the vast bulk of Scots) are basically English

The Lowland merchant class/ English arguably did a pretty effective job of carting Highlanders off to the Colonies or killing them off in foreign battlefields and malarial swamps.

Romanticising them after the deed was done was a bit of a p1ss take impo.

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The Lowland merchant class/ English arguably did a pretty effective job of carting Highlanders off to the Colonies or killing them off in foreign battlefields and malarial swamps.

Romanticising them after the deed was done was a bit of a p1ss take impo.

It'd be interesting to assay how genetically close the European royal families (and top level nobility) are to their respective native populations or whether they are more like an ethnic group of their own.

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I would also like to point out that the in-bred retards from deepest West Yorkshire are more distinctive, more 'dfifferent' to the English than the supposed Scots.

I think the less said about what goes on in the 'Woollen District' the better ....

womanshp.jpg

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For me, it confiirms basically that the lowland Scots (the vast bulk of Scots) are basically English as are people from Cornwall, South Wales and certain concentrations in Northern Ireland due to the 'plantation'.

But what it actually says is

...people in the north of England are genetically more similar to people in Scotland than they are to those in the south of England.

which is a rather different thing. Might one not equally say that people in the north of England are 'basically' Scots?

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Some Welsh nats have, allegedly, been proudly gloating talking for several months about how they have 'pure' Welsh DNA. I can see that it has already become a kudos thing amongst certain sections of Welsh nationalists - speaking Welsh from birth will perhaps no longer be good enough to be part of the Crachach. You will now have to prove pure Welsh DNA.

Personally I see it as a sign of the biggest Welsh problem - inbreeding :D

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Might one not equally say that people in the north of England are 'basically' Scots?

Can't think of any simalarities between Yorkshire folk and Scots ...

Bonny Donny (Doncaster) is still technically part of Scotland of course.

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So, yes, we all are basically cut from pretty much the same cloth. And any differences that can be discerned would be like dancing on the head of a pin.

So you are saying Yorkshiremen

yorkshiremen.jpg

are basically the same as the blokes in Scotland?

146818.jpg

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V interesting. Some yrs ago Mr B and I had our DNA done by Oxford Ancestors - this goes back way further. We both had the same paternal line - apparently common to 45% of native Europeans - but different maternal. His originated some 25 thousand years ago in SW France - a mere parvenu and very common, whereas mine originated 45000 yrs ago in what is now NW Greece. I share that with 11% of native Europeans, and interestingly, with the old Cheddar Gorge man of 9000 years ago.

I would love to untangle all the bits of DNA. No 2 daughter has more Mediterranean type colouring than anyone else in the family, blue eyes but a more olivey skin than anyone else on either side. (Not the milkman, honest). I suspect a washed-up Armada sailor somewhere along the line, which would not be altogether surprising since there is a lot of Devonish on my side.

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There was hardly anyone in South Wales prior to the industrial revolution, most of the current population are descended from English economic immigrants.

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There was hardly anyone in South Wales prior to the industrial revolution, most of the current population are descended from English economic immigrants.

This is why the gogs hate everyone in South Wales and have their own 'private' airline back to Gogland!? :lol:

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Not sure what use research like this is! I suppose it is just research. One week I was in Germany, and people spoke to me in German, thinking I was German. Another time I went to Madrid, and people assumed I was Spanish! I feel like Zelig! :unsure:

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Hmmm.

They excluded people of darker pigmentation who migrated (or whose ancestors migrated) to the celtic fringe. They surveyed white people regardless of whether they were newcomers vs families who haven't moved since doomsday, or anything between? That's pretty severe sampling bias.

Perhaps they'd get more meaningful results if they had measured non-white people too, to get an estimate of levels of general migration. A kind of (reverse) control group. Though that would be fraught with its own problems too.

Though it could also be that it's the media reports that are ill-informed and misleading.

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V interesting. Some yrs ago Mr B and I had our DNA done by Oxford Ancestors - this goes back way further. We both had the same paternal line - apparently common to 45% of native Europeans - but different maternal. His originated some 25 thousand years ago in SW France - a mere parvenu and very common, whereas mine originated 45000 yrs ago in what is now NW Greece. I share that with 11% of native Europeans, and interestingly, with the old Cheddar Gorge man of 9000 years ago.

I would love to untangle all the bits of DNA. No 2 daughter has more Mediterranean type colouring than anyone else in the family, blue eyes but a more olivey skin than anyone else on either side. (Not the milkman, honest). I suspect a washed-up Armada sailor somewhere along the line, which would not be altogether surprising since there is a lot of Devonish on my side.

Funny, two of my wife's sisters have a hint of a Med type colouring and I've often wondered if there could be one of the Armada sailors who were shipwrecked off the West coast of Ireland somewhere in the ancestry.

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Not sure what use research like this is! I suppose it is just research. One week I was in Germany, and people spoke to me in German, thinking I was German. Another time I went to Madrid, and people assumed I was Spanish! I feel like Zelig! :unsure:

A neighbour of mine, English borne of Pakistani parents has be taken for a Jew when visiting some central European country. Can't remember which country but he though it very funny.

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Funny, two of my wife's sisters have a hint of a Med type colouring and I've often wondered if there could be one of the Armada sailors who were shipwrecked off the West coast of Ireland somewhere in the ancestry.

791019.gif

A good account here:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/102/do-some-irish-names-come-from-spanish-armada-survivors

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A neighbour of mine, English borne of Pakistani parents has be taken for a Jew when visiting some central European country. Can't remember which country but he though it very funny.

He must have visited a polite country! In some countries this would not be funny! Lucky he wasn't taken for a Pakistani! :huh:

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I still like the pictorial, non-genetic version.

average_female_face_1.jpg

average_female_face_2.jpg

average_female_face_3.jpg

average_female_face_4.jpg

average_female_face_5.jpg

No duds!

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