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the_duke_of_hazzard

Flat In Florence

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No! I rent out the old coal bunker to illegals!

Sounds like a pain to me!

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Would I be mad to buy a flat in Florence and rent it out? Got family who know and speak Italian etc..

Anyone got any experience of this kind of thing?

Owning a short let/ holiday property in Italy is slightly less insane than getting into the residential landlord game.

Personally I wouldn't, unless supported by a local who's got a grip on the ins and outs of all the associated bureaucracy. The chances of a relative outsider getting burned, in a protracted, inescapable way, are high imho.

There's a possibility I might inherit a share of a couple of flats in Italy (nowhere near as swish as Florence) and the prospect leaves me feeling slightly nauseous whenever I think of it. It'd be serious white elephant/ poisoned chalice stuff. Your own mileage, of course, may vary.

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Would I be mad to buy a flat in Florence and rent it out? Got family who know and speak Italian etc..

Anyone got any experience of this kind of thing?

I would buy it if I liked it and was happy to visit very many times, learn the language get involved with the culture, visit surrounding areas, make use of it, lend it, share it and love it.....I would not buy it to rent it out...... ;)

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Owning a short let/ holiday property in Italy is slightly less insane than getting into the residential landlord game.

Personally I wouldn't, unless supported by a local who's got a grip on the ins and outs of all the associated bureaucracy. The chances of a relative outsider getting burned, in a protracted, inescapable way, are high imho.

There's a possibility I might inherit a share of a couple of flats in Italy (nowhere near as swish as Florence) and the prospect leaves me feeling slightly nauseous whenever I think of it. It'd be serious white elephant/ poisoned chalice stuff. Your own mileage, of course, may vary.

Thanks - I have fluent Italian speakers in my family, but no-one actually living there. I looked at the price of rentals and it seems like you get a good return. But I don't know what surprises would lie in store.

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I would buy it if I liked it and was happy to visit very many times, learn the language get involved with the culture, visit surrounding areas, make use of it, lend it, share it and love it.....I would not buy it to rent it out...... ;)

Why? You could visit in the voids :)

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Why? You could visit in the voids :)

So you have your stuff there, you would want to leave it as you would wish to find it.....is it a business or is it a home?

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Not a home, but a holiday home.

So if a holiday home why would you want to rent it out to strangers and all that entails.......you might as well rent a new place in Florence every time you wanted to visit......would you rent your own home in the UK out to strangers every time you went on holiday?

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I have a house in southwest France. In the past year, I've met two people in the area who have fled Italy after nightmare experiences buying property there (one in Tuscany, one in Puglia). There's plenty of red tape in France, but both people I spoke to said that the regulations in Italy were essentially designed by locals to flagrantly rip off foreign buyers. The guy from Tuscany, a trained architect, wasn't allowed to do any work on his own property because he didn't have an Italian architecture license, and the few locals with a license all charged extortionate rates. The guy from Puglia was forced to pay protection money to the local mafia to get them to stop stealing everything from his house every time he left the property.

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So if a holiday home why would you want to rent it out to strangers and all that entails.......you might as well rent a new place in Florence every time you wanted to visit......would you rent your own home in the UK out to strangers every time you went on holiday?

I've got spare cash abnd the returns look v high.

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I have a house in southwest France. In the past year, I've met two people in the area who have fled Italy after nightmare experiences buying property there (one in Tuscany, one in Puglia). There's plenty of red tape in France, but both people I spoke to said that the regulations in Italy were essentially designed by locals to flagrantly rip off foreign buyers. The guy from Tuscany, a trained architect, wasn't allowed to do any work on his own property because he didn't have an Italian architecture license, and the few locals with a license all charged extortionate rates. The guy from Puglia was forced to pay protection money to the local mafia to get them to stop stealing everything from his house every time he left the property.

I guess that does it then!

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Thanks - I have fluent Italian speakers in my family, but no-one actually living there. I looked at the price of rentals and it seems like you get a good return. But I don't know what surprises would lie in store.

The red tape associated with owning property and the tenant's rights associated with residential lets are prohibitive afaic. My extended family inherited various properties in Italy and, with maintenance and upkeep, they're lucky to break even every year.

I suspect in the past people were OK with putting money into non profit making flats because a. It was safer than the banks and b. it was 'black' money they hadn't paid any tax on.

Local comuni are strapped for cash and coming up with all sorts of wheezes to extract cash from property owners, especially non resident second property owners.

Then there's the business of needing a notary and 'procure' (powers of attorney) to get anything of any note done. They ain't cheap. They ain't in any hurry.

Then there's the inheritance thing. When someone dies, spouses and children receive a mandatory minimum share (British wills have no sway). Which means, even if they're all talking to each other it's notary and bureaucracy time. My Dad's been dead almost ten years and we still haven't unf*cked interests he inherited there.

It's not uncommon for a second generation to start dying off before the previous generation's estate has been unf*cked. Then the two piles of steaming f*ck run into each other. There's an empty house in Italy I, and a few dozen other people, apparently own some teeny fraction of which is falling down and if it kills someone in the process I'm theoretically liable. A few of us are trying to sign over our interests to the local priest.

I suspect all this is a bigger deal with countryside families than townsfolk, plus (I believe) there are no tenant's rights/ rent control issues with holiday lets. So, a flat in Florence wouldn't be so bad, but still...

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I've got spare cash abnd the returns look v high.

funny-used-car-salesman-crooked-banker-l

Can I interest you in a ponzi scheme?

How good are the returns? My feeling is always "if it looks too good to be true, it probably is". Maybe that's a bit too cynical, but you should ask yourself why it's available to a foreigner and not on the local open market if it is such a good investment.

If you like florence and wish to stay there yourself fine, but to let it out when you are not there, you really need boots on the ground over there; from cleaning and maintenance down to the practicality of giving the keys to the renters.

I know several people who have property abroad, who hardly go there anymore as they're bored of it (no matter how lovely initially) - for the substantial money you're putting down, you could stay anywhere you wanted, when you wanted, with no maintenance or property taxes etc. If you want to immerse yourself in the lifestyle and society and plan on staying their 6 months a year (or some other substantial period) then that's a different proposition.

Just my two pence worth. Not trying to be overly negative, just what I know from the experience of friends

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I have a house in southwest France. In the past year, I've met two people in the area who have fled Italy after nightmare experiences buying property there (one in Tuscany, one in Puglia). There's plenty of red tape in France, but both people I spoke to said that the regulations in Italy were essentially designed by locals to flagrantly rip off foreign buyers. The guy from Tuscany, a trained architect, wasn't allowed to do any work on his own property because he didn't have an Italian architecture license, and the few locals with a license all charged extortionate rates. The guy from Puglia was forced to pay protection money to the local mafia to get them to stop stealing everything from his house every time he left the property.

I've got family who were born in Italy, speak the local dialect, and have maintained close and constant contact with Italy even though they spent their adult lives living and working in England. They still get reamed if they ever let their guard down, on the basis that they're foreigners. And that's Up North where the organised crime thing isn't such a deal. What chance 'proper' foreigners?

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I know an Italian family who lived there all their lives and (with some inherited money) bought a nice little holiday house in the hills.

6 months after they moved in the next door neighbour made them a derisory offer to buy the place, he wanted to extend, they turned him down.

The next time they visited, the house had been broken into and all the plumbing broken with a baseball bat and dirty water all over the floors.

So now they have a house they can't live in, cant afford to fix and don't want to sell to the only person interested.

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I've Italian in famiiy.

I would never put much money into a fixed asset in Italy.

Just go, rent somewhere out or stay in a hotel.

Your relatives may know the language. I doubt they'll know the scams and dodges.

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I've got family who were born in Italy, speak the local dialect, and have maintained close and constant contact with Italy even though they spent their adult lives living and working in England. They still get reamed if they ever let their guard down, on the basis that they're foreigners. And that's Up North where the organised crime thing isn't such a deal. What chance 'proper' foreigners?

They're rich.

They should be taxed to pay for all the inbred locals who stayed behdnd and, er, inbred more.

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They're rich.

They should be taxed to pay for all the inbred locals who stayed behdnd and, er, inbred more.

Quite.

I was chatting with a friend recently and she was in a osteria with her Italian resident sister and when the bill came the two of them tussled over who was going to pay it to treat the other. A couple of people at a table next to her said, in dialect which they presumably thought she wouldn't understand, 'she can pay, she's English'. She then promptly told them to go f**k themselves, in dialect.

I think they all got into the habit in the 60s and 70s when the emigrants were doing better. Didn't get out of the habit even when their own living standards caught up, then overtook the ex-pats.

Italy had a bit of a spunk-fest party when it joined the Euro. Being part of (what appeared to be) a non toilet paper currency went to everyone's heads a bit. The country's in the middle of crashing and crashing hard.

I presume spectacular opportunities exist in Florence because Italian investors are piling into London property, along with most of their children.

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...one wheeze my Mum's local comune has come up with it charging supplementary property-related taxes but not sending a bill, posting a notification up in the town hall or somesuch instead, which is obviously super-convenient for anyone living overseas maintaining an ancestral home. Then the comune fines you for not paying on time, starts charging interest, then fines you again, then charges a bit more interest...

What with one thing and another, it's heading to a point where you can't give away properties in her valley.

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