Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

interestrateripoff

Does Unplugging Your Router Cause Connection Issues?

Recommended Posts

We have had no end of internet connection issues since switching to crap crap. Previously we'd been with Sky and had a very stable 18mb connection with no issues and unplugging the router at night had no adverse issues like decreasing the speed.

Moved to crap crap many years ago now had a slightly slower 16mb connection, but then suddenly it went to 4mb and apparently that was because of the number of devices connected.... How that effects the physical connection between the router and the exchange I have no idea...

Been on fibre now for around 2 years and it's been endless grief, an incredible unstable connection it seems fine for a while and then slows down to around 4mb. They come out "fix it", it's ok for a couple of months and then we have the same problem again.

Apparently now we have an engineer claiming that turning the router on and off each night is an issue. I've had a quick google and can't find any advice which states that this is an issue which causes you to lose speed. I smell bull5h1t. We now need to leave the router on for 40 days for it to install????

This to me sounds like utter crap with an engineer hoping to baffle someone with technical crap. However does turning the router on and off make any difference.

I've been with pipex and sky and done this and never once had an issue with the connection speed, so from experience I feel this is utter crap, or perhaps I was just lucky and the connection always restored to it's correct speed.

So is leaving the router on utter nonsense or are dsl/fibre connections so fragile that you must leave the router connected 24/7?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes and no..

DSL based broadband connections - which is to say those served down copper and/or aluminium phone lines - are a compromise because such lines were never designed for data.

At one end you have equipment in the exchange (ADSL) or VDSL roadside cabinet (misleadingly called 'fibre') and at the other, the user's modem connected by some ancient old wire.

The equipment at both ends 'talks' to negotiate the fastest possible speed.

If it starts dropping out, then the thing at the other end thinks 'It's unstable' and lowers the data rate to try to make it stable.

If you keep turning the router on and off repeatedly in a short space of time, this will be misinterpreted as instability and may well have that effect. The speed will eventually recover but it may take days.

Turning it off at night *shouldn't* trigger that. But any ISP is going to recommend leaving it on.

Turning to your issue - if the "pipe" can deliver 16Mbps and you have four devices accessing it at the same time all running flat out then that's 16Mbps shared between the four. Each will see slower speeds.

That has no bearing on the speed the "pipe" is running at however.

Suggest you pop along here:

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/

.. and post about this issue including the statistics you get from the router (Attenuation, sync rate, IP profile etc.) - if you don't know how to get those they will help you.

That will assist in diagnosing what is actually wrong with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was told NOT to ever turn off my (wifi) router by EE after I had started doing it every night to save on energy! (Then I couldn't get back with wirless, only on a wired connection.)

I DO still turn it off when going away (eg for weeks at a time) and have had problems when coming back which necessitated contacting EE's customer support. (Had to be guided through change prefered channels, or doing a reset ... stuff like that.)

Was fine last time I had to switch it on after a gap though. (So phew.)

Quite annoying if switching it on off (to go on hols) is a problem, but glad to hear (on here) that it's not as 'bad' doing as switching on/off more freq eg everynight. (I was also told the system thinks there's a problem if the router is switched off which reduces the speed.)

So I don't switch off every night, (for fear of probs), but still do when leaving the house empty for more that a night away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A couple of further points:

An engineer can reset the 'profile' at the cabinet so the line 're-trains' immediately. There is no need to wait for days.

Talk Talk won't send someone out to do that, though because:

1. They would get charged

2. If there is an underlying issue the speed will just drop back again

However the engineer could have done that at the time while there.

If the line is generally unstable, and has history of being unstable both with ADSL and VDSL ("fibre") then some possibilities are:

- Poor quality line. Generally poor line between the cabinet and the house - requires a "pair swap" - Talk Talk should escalate. If you listen to the line and you can hear any noise - anything at all - in the background, report as a phone fault not a broadband one, BT's obligations are greater with that;

- Congestion. There just isn't enough bandwidth to go around for everyone using it. The stats from your modem will uncover if this is so. Nothing that is done with the physical line will fix this, changing ISP would as long as the new one isn't a Talk Talk reseller;

- Crosstalk. As more people take up the VDSL service, the lines interfere with one another and some slow down. Like REIN but a built in "feature" of trying to shove broadband signals down phone lines. There is a technology that is supposed to remedy this called vectoring but it's only in trials and there are no plans for any particular deployment;

- REIN (Random Electrical Interference Noise) - something in your house or between you and the cabinet is generating interference (requires Talk Talk to pay BT to send someone out to walk along the road with a hand-held tester). NB if you have a Sky box make sure you have the micro filters in the right places.

Others: faulty socket (replaced), failing micro-filters (try swapping), failing modem (has been swapped).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was told NOT to ever turn off my (wifi) router by EE after I had started doing it every night to save on energy! (Then I couldn't get back with wirless, only on a wired connection.)

I DO still turn it off when going away (eg for weeks at a time) and have had problems when coming back which necessitated contacting EE's customer support. (Had to be guided through change prefered channels, or doing a reset ... stuff like that.)

Was fine last time I had to switch it on after a gap though. (So phew.)

Quite annoying if switching it on off (to go on hols) is a problem, but glad to hear (on here) that it's not as 'bad' doing as switching on/off more freq eg everynight. (I was also told the system thinks there's a problem if the router is switched off which reduces the speed.)

So I don't switch off every night, (for fear of probs), but still do when leaving the house empty for more that a night away.

Aside from any firmware issues, the most stressful time for electronics is when they are switched on from cold. The voltage surge that normally accompanies switch on, plus the transition from cold to warm operating temperatures is most likely to cause reliability issues.

So the money you save switching on and off will probably be lost via reduced reliability of the product.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aside from any firmware issues, the most stressful time for electronics is when they are switched on from cold. The voltage surge that normally accompanies switch on, plus the transition from cold to warm operating temperatures is most likely to cause reliability issues.

So the money you save switching on and off will probably be lost via reduced reliability of the product.

Well I'm never turning anything off again after that revelation!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was told NOT to ever turn off my (wifi) router by EE after I had started doing it every night to save on energy! (Then I couldn't get back with wirless, only on a wired connection.)

How much energy can you save doing that. How much does a router consume when left alone at night. I save energy ( and back issues) by not bending down to switch anything off.

Please tell me youre one of these people who switch off everything in standby or phone chargers to save energy then have 3 foreign holidays a year.

I know i know it all adds up at the end of the year......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Probably gchq on to you.

have you noticed a white van parked across the road with blokes dressed in black sitting in it for hours on end talking into their wrists?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I'm never turning anything off again after that revelation!

Well obviously if it is using 200 quid a year in leccy and it costs 10 quid to replace its a no brainer.

Average router consumption is 6w or under 6 quid a year, so you've got to be tight to the point of impracticality to switch the thing on and off all the time to save money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well obviously if it is using 200 quid a year in leccy and it costs 10 quid to replace its a no brainer.

Average router consumption is 6w or under 6 quid a year, so you've got to be tight to the point of impracticality to switch the thing on and off all the time to save money.

Agree, not worth it. IIRC, I had just read some article about reducing power which was saying "if everyone switched things off at night", (you know on a global scale), so I was thinking along the "every little helps the world energy supply" ... rather than actually saving myself any money!

Also had the idea that, just in case I am on a BotNet without knowing, this would disupt the free service they assume they will be getting each night while I am asleep! (Or the neighbours who could have written down my wifi box code while checking the mail during my absences?) :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agree, not worth it. IIRC, I had just read some article about reducing power which was saying "if everyone switched things off at night", (you know on a global scale), so I was thinking along the "every little helps the world energy supply" ... rather than actually saving myself any money!

Also had the idea that, just in case I am on a BotNet without knowing, this would disupt the free service they assume they will be getting each night while I am asleep! (Or the neighbours who could have written down my wifi box code while checking the mail during my absences?) :D

How about turning off the PC while you are asleep ? That's how many W, maybe 25x that of a router.

And if you don't trust people, just remove the box code.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well obviously if it is using 200 quid a year in leccy and it costs 10 quid to replace its a no brainer.

Average router consumption is 6w or under 6 quid a year, so you've got to be tight to the point of impracticality to switch the thing on and off all the time to save money.

You are making this statement on HPC!!!!

I turn mine off to ensure the kids aren't connecting to it at night to ensure everyone sleeps. So it's not just about saving money. However if it's saving £3 a year that's still £3 extra off the mortgage, if you add in all the other devices it all mounts up! :)

If the whole country does it we are wasting a fortune in energy.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about turning off the PC while you are asleep ? That's how many W, maybe 25x that of a router.

And if you don't trust people, just remove the box code.

1. Does anyone leave a PC on at night? (We have laptops and they are all off at night!)

2. Re the box-code, we have adult kids, (and visitors), when we are not at home. so no-one would know what the code was if we removed the sticker!

3. How easy is it to change the code on the box out of interest?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are making this statement on HPC!!!!

I turn mine off to ensure the kids aren't connecting to it at night to ensure everyone sleeps. So it's not just about saving money. However if it's saving £3 a year that's still £3 extra off the mortgage, if you add in all the other devices it all mounts up! :)

If the whole country does it we are wasting a fortune in energy.....

Just make sure you power down that PC between posts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In addition to what others have said.

1. If your microfilters are failing, or have failed, then that can cause issues. Alas, looking at them gives no indication of problems. They can work fine for years and then just fail. There must be millions of failed microfilters stuck in sockets around the world.

2. A common problem is other electrical cables near your router / CAT 5/6 cabling that you have. The electrical signals from such cable, especially if that cable is coiled - which it usually is, can seriously suck the bandwidth out of your internet connection be it via wireless or by cable. Likewise, at your PC / laptop end if you have electrical cable near your PC / laptop, especially by your wireless card, it too can suck bandwidth.

Something as minor as the power cable for your computer speakers can cause a big bandwidth problem.

I only glanced through your problem - but won't stop me giving you my opinion :lol: - and DTMark's reply but another factor could simply be that you have neighbours with more powerful routers, which are interfering with yours, or your router is on the same channel frequency as your neighbours.

I don't know if someone has suggested it but you could try changing the channel that your router broadcasts Wi-fi on and, of course, you would need to then reconnect your devices to it wirelessly.

I suspect that your problem is mainly to do with being on crap crap as crap crap comes on time and time again as being a problem. You are basically piggy-backing on the BT network and, whereas a BT boy could walk to the nearest green cabinet and up the gain for you or do it at the exchange, it is unlikely that crap crap will pay to have it done.

In some areas now engineers are, allegedly, robbing peter to pay paul in terms of bandwidth speeds - they up the gain for customer A until customers B, C and D complain. Then they up the gain for customers B, C and D... and wait for customer A to twig. I suspect, if such things are true, then it is better being with BT than with being, as I currently am, with a third-party provider who uses BT's network.

To answer your original question - no, it is ******** IMPO that you need to keep your router on. I tend to keep mine on overnight as I sometimes wake up and surf online. However, when I leave the house I always switch my router off. They can get very hot and overheat.

When you switch your router back up it simply makes a handshake with the network and contacts your ISP, does a handshake with it to authenticate you are who you are and then off you go to surf the web, download email, etc. It should take moments and no more than a minute or two.

Some ISPs give out the wrong router configuration settings to their customers or, worse IMPO, they change the settings but don't actually tell their customers so I would triple-check that your router has the right settings and password to connect to your crap crap ISP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In addition to what others have said.

1. If your microfilters are failing, or have failed, then that can cause issues. Alas, looking at them gives no indication of problems. They can work fine for years and then just fail. There must be millions of failed microfilters stuck in sockets around the world.

2. A common problem is other electrical cables near your router / CAT 5/6 cabling that you have. The electrical signals from such cable, especially if that cable is coiled - which it usually is, can seriously suck the bandwidth out of your internet connection be it via wireless or by cable. Likewise, at your PC / laptop end if you have electrical cable near your PC / laptop, especially by your wireless card, it too can suck bandwidth.

Something as minor as the power cable for your computer speakers can cause a big bandwidth problem.

I only glanced through your problem - but won't stop me giving you my opinion :lol: - and DTMark's reply but another factor could simply be that you have neighbours with more powerful routers, which are interfering with yours, or your router is on the same channel frequency as your neighbours.

I don't know if someone has suggested it but you could try changing the channel that your router broadcasts Wi-fi on and, of course, you would need to then reconnect your devices to it wirelessly.

I suspect that your problem is mainly to do with being on crap crap as crap crap comes on time and time again as being a problem. You are basically piggy-backing on the BT network and, whereas a BT boy could walk to the nearest green cabinet and up the gain for you or do it at the exchange, it is unlikely that crap crap will pay to have it done.

In some areas now engineers are, allegedly, robbing peter to pay paul in terms of bandwidth speeds - they up the gain for customer A until customers B, C and D complain. Then they up the gain for customers B, C and D... and wait for customer A to twig. I suspect, if such things are true, then it is better being with BT than with being, as I currently am, with a third-party provider who uses BT's network.

To answer your original question - no, it is ******** IMPO that you need to keep your router on. I tend to keep mine on overnight as I sometimes wake up and surf online. However, when I leave the house I always switch my router off. They can get very hot and overheat.

When you switch your router back up it simply makes a handshake with the network and contacts your ISP, does a handshake with it to authenticate you are who you are and then off you go to surf the web, download email, etc. It should take moments and no more than a minute or two.

Some ISPs give out the wrong router configuration settings to their customers or, worse IMPO, they change the settings but don't actually tell their customers so I would triple-check that your router has the right settings and password to connect to your crap crap ISP.

All routers are expected to be used all the time. If they get too hot it's either :

a) Because they are designed wrong.

B) Because they are faulty.

or c) Because they are placed in poorly ventilated areas, or like in my house, next to the radiator.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All routers are expected to be used all the time. If they get too hot it's either :

a) Because they are designed wrong.

B) Because they are faulty.

or c) Because they are placed in poorly ventilated areas, or like in my house, next to the radiator.

Yes, and a lot are designed wrong.

I had a netgear which over-heated due to its design - it had been designed to sit horizontally on the floor. Google showed that numerous people found that, by leaving their router on continuously, that it over-heated, fried and died. Subsequently, Netgear redesigned their routers to then stand vertically allowing air to more freely circulate.

I think it is commonsense to switch off your router if you know that you are not going to use it for long periods of time - that might be overnight for some people or during daytime working hours for others.

One day a wirless router and a slow cooker, let powered up and bored, will create a technical monster that will devastate mankind, pillage the ladies and make annoymouse phone calls at 3 in the morning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Next General Election   90 members have voted

    1. 1. When do you predict the next general election will be held?


      • 2019
      • 2020
      • 2021
      • 2022

    Please sign in or register to vote in this poll. View topic


×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.