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Tim

My Dismay At Your Forum

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Dear all,

I first looked at this web site about a year ago as I was thinking of buying my first flat. A year on, I return to the website as I am once again considering buying, and am dismayed to see the majority of discussions are practically the same as back then.

With the exclusion of some well researched and balanced contributions, the majority of the postings here are simply people gloating over any piece of bad economic news they can dig up.

Today there was a thread about a survey on a website: 'will there be a total collapse of the housing market'. With glee contributors reported the results "69% Yes" .. "now its 72%!!!!".. These survey results I should add were based on a pole of 12 (presumably 72% visiting from housepricecrash.co.uk :) )

What I find alarming is that most people on this forum seem to be looking forward to a devasting house price crash. Do you not think this would be bad for the economy? What about your friends/family who are property owners? Or people relying on the equity in their homes for retirement?

I do agree that house prices are high and that people should think carefully before buying and indeed that in some areas and in some circumstances renting is best. But shouldn't potention FTBs be given the simple advice: buying a propery is hard - save, make lifestyle changes if necessary... waiting for a house price crash just seems plain lazy to me..

Tim

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Dear all,

I first looked at this web site about a year ago as I was thinking of buying my first flat. A year on, I return to the website as I am once again considering buying, and am dismayed to see the majority of discussions are practically the same as back then.

With the exclusion of some well researched and balanced contributions, the majority of the postings here are simply people gloating over any piece of bad economic news they can dig up.

Today there was a thread about a survey on a website: 'will there be a total collapse of the housing market'. With glee contributors reported the results "69% Yes" .. "now its 72%!!!!".. These survey results I should add were based on a pole of 12 (presumably 72% visiting from housepricecrash.co.uk :) )

What I find alarming is that most people on this forum seem to be looking forward to a devasting house price crash. Do you not think this would be bad for the economy? What about your friends/family who are property owners? Or people relying on the equity in their homes for retirement?

I do agree that house prices are high and that people should think carefully before buying and indeed that in some areas and in some circumstances renting is best. But shouldn't potention FTBs be given the simple advice: buying a propery is hard - save, make lifestyle changes if necessary... waiting for a house price crash just seems plain lazy to me..

Tim

That you said all that, you obviously haven't spend much time looking at this site.

Buy - waste your money.

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That's quite a first post. There are a lot of well informed views here and to rubbish them in one fell swoop with you first post is a little on the harsh side. As you a clearly an FTB yourself perhaps you should do a bit more reading here first.

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1. People who have profited from this, the World's biggest financial bubble, do not seem to have any sympathy for those who have had to have their lives put on hold because prices are sky high.

2. If you wish to buy then buy. Ignore all the pointers which now signal a collapse in housing prices is near, if it is not already happening, and that an awful lot of people are going to see their house prices fall in price by anything up to a HALF, perhaps more, in the coming years.

I personally do not think that a HP crash will be bad for the economy. I am convinced, although I have no hard evidence to back this up, that a small, admittedly significant, number of people have driven up the market in the past 5 years - i.e. that chap in Port Talbot who has 400 properties.

When this house of cards collapses all the better for the majority. If the economy goes down then so what? At least everyone else will be in the same boat whereas, now, many of us are now expected to pay 4 or 5 times the price of a house compared to someone who bought 4 or 5 years ago. Nonsense!

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What I find alarming is that most people on this forum seem to be looking forward to a devasting house price crash. [Tim]

Anticipating is not the same thing as "looking forward to".

Do you not think this would be bad for the economy? [Tim]

What was bad for the economy was the unsustainable rise, not the inevitable correction which follows. You can't have one without the other.

What about your friends/family who are property owners? [Tim]

For most who bought their homes at sensible prices a fall in value will have little direct impact. If they are adversely affected by the ensuing recession then the blame for that lies with the economic vandals who bid house prices up in the first place (including you perhaps).

Or people relying on the equity in their homes for retirement? [Tim]

Homes are for living in. Pension plans are the appropriate vehicle to fund retirement.

Edited by Jeff Ross

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What I find alarming is that most people on this forum seem to be looking forward to a devasting house price crash. Do you not think this would be bad for the economy? What about your friends/family who are property owners? Or people relying on the equity in their homes for retirement?

Will they give a stuff about you if you pay 6 times salary for a pokey little flat and end up in negative equity for 10 years plus????

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What I find alarming is that most people on this forum seem to be looking forward to a devasting house price crash. Do you not think this would be bad for the economy? What about your friends/family who are property owners? Or people relying on the equity in their homes for retirement?

What I find alarming is people that think property will spiral upwards forever. Do you not think this would be bad for the economy? What about your friends/family who would like to buy but can't afford it?

As for people relying on the equity in their homes for retirement, doesn't that sound like a slightly risky strategy? All their eggs in one cyclical asset basket.

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That you said all that, you obviously haven't spend much time looking at this site.

Buy - waste your money.

I agree. If you believe that you can afford the repayments, and that interest rates will not go up, and that the cost of your home will only increase with time, then why deliberate? Buy the best you can afford and then go brag down the pub. What difference does it make?

Personally, I can wait a lot longer for a crash than I could service a mortgage at double the interest rate. Its about choice really.

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What I find alarming is that most people on this forum seem to be looking forward to a devasting house price crash. Do you not think this would be bad for the economy? What about your friends/family who are property owners? Or people relying on the equity in their homes for retirement?

But shouldn't potention FTBs be given the simple advice: buying a propery is hard - save, make lifestyle changes if necessary... waiting for a house price crash just seems plain lazy to me..

Tim

First point, most people I know, even property owners, would benefit from an HPC as they either want to move up or have plenty of equity not to worry about 30-40% falls. I agree that the wider economic fallout is undesirable, but if our economy had been managed better then the consequences wouldn't have been so severe. Now it is too late and there will be many redundancies and little hope of any consumer led recoery for many years.

Second point, there are frequent postings on how to be careful with your finances. Most people on this site are very prudent, which is precisely why they aren't buying at the moment as they don't want to lose their savings in the coming disaster.

There is a lot of negative stuff here, but that's probably because a lot of people are sick of waiting for something that would have happened six months ago if it wasn't for VI lies and govt interfering.

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Dear all,

I first looked at this web site about a year ago as I was thinking of buying my first flat. A year on, I return to the website as I am once again considering buying, and am dismayed to see the majority of discussions are practically the same as back then.

With the exclusion of some well researched and balanced contributions, the majority of the postings here are simply people gloating over any piece of bad economic news they can dig up.

Today there was a thread about a survey on a website: 'will there be a total collapse of the housing market'. With glee contributors reported the results "69% Yes" .. "now its 72%!!!!".. These survey results I should add were based on a pole of 12 (presumably 72% visiting from housepricecrash.co.uk :) )

What I find alarming is that most people on this forum seem to be looking forward to a devasting house price crash. Do you not think this would be bad for the economy? What about your friends/family who are property owners? Or people relying on the equity in their homes for retirement?

I do agree that house prices are high and that people should think carefully before buying and indeed that in some areas and in some circumstances renting is best. But shouldn't potention FTBs be given the simple advice: buying a propery is hard - save, make lifestyle changes if necessary... waiting for a house price crash just seems plain lazy to me..

Tim

You tim dont know f*ck all about other peoples situation and how hard they work or what they have to go through each day so you can keep your advice.

Or people relying on equity in thier homes for retirement? F*ck um i say, f*ck um all, dont like my attitude? I dont care, no really i dont give a damn. You know nothing of others so when critisising dont generalise.

Edited by theChuz

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Dear Tim,

Why don't you just bug-ger off and let us get on with it then?

You could start your own forum with BHIFY and LL and write all the drivel you like.

Dancing Bear.

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Do you not think this would be bad for the economy?

Do you not think ridiculously high house prices are bad for society? That FTB levels are at an all time low, that ppl have to hold off from buying until much later in life, that couples are unable to have children because of the cancer that is HPI.

Or people relying on the equity in their homes for retirement?

Tough luck for them. Perhaps they should look up the word "pension" in the dictionary. Anyone laying all their hopes on a comfortable retirement through excessively high house prices at the expense of the generation behind them deserve everything they get.

What about your friends/family who are property owners?

If they were sensible about how much they borrowed and the cost of the home they bought then they will probably be fine. If not then they are part of the problem and deserve everything they get.

Why do you think we should be sorry for ppl who might suffer as a direct consequence of their own actions? Would you feel sorry for somebody who burnt to death because they set themselves on fire? I'm afraid I'm all out of sympathy for the debt junkies.

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With all due respect to the pensioners, any asset price crash is not any worse for the economy than a preceeding bubble. Would you like go through an experience of managing your own business or just live in nice times of sustained budget deficit? I would not think so. And here is why it is relevant to our case: see attachment ( a page of Andrew Farlow's presentation)

Doc1.doc

Doc1.doc

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Nice work with the bear baiting Tim. Well Done.

Certainly poked a few into their normal knee jerk reactions. Personally, I thought your post was fairly reasonable.

Let's be honest, over 12 months on since I've joined this forum, I'm still seeing - the house of cards will collapse under its own weight of debt, IRs are going back to 6%, volumes collapsing, etc etc.

Well if it didn't happen 12 months ago, why should it now, given that IRs are lower, employment is higher, volumes increasing, mortgage lending increasing, high street sales increasing and all economists predicting GDP growth of 2.5% next year. Looks like things are improving and that isn't congruent with a price crash.

Anyway, welcome to the reasonable, thoughtful section of HPC !

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What I find alarming is people that think property will spiral upwards forever. Do you not think this would be bad for the economy? What about your friends/family who would like to buy but can't afford it?

As for people relying on the equity in their homes for retirement, doesn't that sound like a slightly risky strategy? All their eggs in one cyclical asset basket.

and more than a little "lazy" too?

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Many people seem to think that when house prices rise, this new-found wealth has appeared miraculously from thin air.

It hasn't.

It is actually the future income of those lower down the 'ladder' that is being redistributed to those at the top of the 'ladder'. Unless the wages of those lower down the 'ladder' rise rapidly (as happened in the 1970s/80s when wage inflation was running at over 10% a year), those lower down the 'ladder' who buy when prices are high are committing themselves to a lifetime of crippling debt to pay for a small property that they will never be able to afford to move out of when they have a family and need somewhere bigger.

If house prices were to fall drastically, there would be pain for many in the short-term, but it would be in the best long-term interests of the economy.

Unfortunately you can't have the biggest boom in history without a bust afterwards.

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Dear all,

With the exclusion of some well researched and balanced contributions, the majority of the postings here are simply people gloating over any piece of bad economic news they can dig up.

What I find alarming is that most people on this forum seem to be looking forward to a devasting house price crash. Do you not think this would be bad for the economy? What about your friends/family who are property owners? Or people relying on the equity in their homes for retirement?

I do agree that house prices are high and that people should think carefully before buying and indeed that in some areas and in some circumstances renting is best. But shouldn't potention FTBs be given the simple advice: buying a propery is hard - save, make lifestyle changes if necessary... waiting for a house price crash just seems plain lazy to me..

Tim

Yes, there are alot of, well, gloaters about at the moment - SIPPS backtrack and all. I understand that this reads very poorly in the majority of threads but if you would overlook this, you will find some very well considered information (minus the 'OTT' attitudes).

Damn right I'm looking forward (or rather hopeful of) a crash, I can't afford to buy now without over-stretching. My family, to the best of my knowledge, have not bought over-priced houses in the last few years nor re-mortgaged in the name of conspicuous consumption - remember that this crash will not affect all homeowners at all. Houses are for living in, not some kind of retirement fund. That would be a pension

Please don't assume that I'm lazy, I prefer to think of myself as sensible not to borrow 4-5 times my earnings in order to 'get on the ladder'.

I do agree with you though that people really should alter the tone of their replies - it's totally unnecessary, and you are proof that all it does is shroud the reasoned arguments through petty gloating and preaching. Childish.

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I have to say I'm loving the sanctimonious accusations of "gloating" and experiencing "glee" at the prospect of a house price crash which is being directed at FTBs on this website currently. Obviously none of you have experienced the malignant taunting and jubilant derision of property bulls celebrating the astronomical rises in house prices over the last few years, nor the empty pit in your stomach as the prospect of your own humble abode becomes a near-impossibility. Sure, Jesus teaches that we should turn the other cheek, but very few of us can take the constant barrage of abuse and vituperation from bulls (which obviously Tim nor A Late Entrance have ever experienced, judging from their replies) without responding in kind.

In short, lay off FTBs; they've had it rough these past few years and a little tit-for-tat now that the tide looks like turning their way is hardly unexpected nor should it be preached against or condemned, as some would have it be. It is only natural that the oppressed should rise up when their time has come.

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Dear all,

With the exclusion of some well researched and balanced contributions, the majority of the postings here are simply people gloating over any piece of bad economic news they can dig up.

I'm not keen on the gloating either. The ones general in tone are OK, it the ones celebrating job losses, terrorists acts, natural disasters as leading to fairer/lower house prices leave a bad taste. Worse even than the bull bragging.

I suggest a GHOULS category to go with TROLLS. No reason someone couldn't be both.

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I have to say I'm loving the sanctimonious accusations of "gloating" and experiencing "glee" at the prospect of a house price crash which is being directed at FTBs on this website currently. Obviously none of you have experienced the malignant taunting and jubilant derision of property bulls celebrating the astronomical rises in house prices over the last few years, nor the empty pit in your stomach as the prospect of your own humble abode becomes a near-impossibility. Sure, Jesus teaches that we should turn the other cheek, but very few of us can take the constant barrage of abuse and vituperation from bulls (which obviously Tim nor A Late Entrance have ever experienced, judging from their replies) without responding in kind.

In short, lay off FTBs; they've had it rough these past few years and a little tit-for-tat now that the tide looks like turning their way is hardly unexpected nor should it be preached against or condemned, as some would have it be. It is only natural that the oppressed should rise up when their time has come.

vituperation - abusive or venomous language used to express blame or censure or bitter deep-seated ill will .

Don't you all pretend like im the only one who didn't know that word :lol:

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I have to say I'm loving the sanctimonious accusations of "gloating" and experiencing "glee" at the prospect of a house price crash which is being directed at FTBs on this website currently. Obviously none of you have experienced the malignant taunting and jubilant derision of property bulls celebrating the astronomical rises in house prices over the last few years, nor the empty pit in your stomach as the prospect of your own humble abode becomes a near-impossibility. Sure, Jesus teaches that we should turn the other cheek, but very few of us can take the constant barrage of abuse and vituperation from bulls (which obviously Tim nor A Late Entrance have ever experienced, judging from their replies) without responding in kind.

In short, lay off FTBs; they've had it rough these past few years and a little tit-for-tat now that the tide looks like turning their way is hardly unexpected nor should it be preached against or condemned, as some would have it be. It is only natural that the oppressed should rise up when their time has come.

Not at all - the kind of gloating I am refering to is the "I was right, look it's all going pear-shaped" at the slightest bit of positive press (positive to us that is!). No I've not had any direct 'barrage of abuse', but the constant comments of missing the boat and 'if you'd have bought in ....' combined with how much has been added to their property value does sound intensely familiar.

Sorry if I'm just a bit of a traditionalist in terms of the 'rise above' philosphy - but it is almost vulgar at times.

Shite, I'm sounding like my grandad, never mind my dad :o:P

Edited by A late entrance..

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But shouldn't potention FTBs be given the simple advice: buying a propery is hard - save, make lifestyle changes if necessary... waiting for a house price crash just seems plain lazy to me..

Tim

Buying a property was always hard. Todays generation largely seem unable to reconcile lifestyle changes with the sacrifice required to buy their first home. They would rather come on this site and whinge to each other about how expensive house purchase is in 2005 whilst at the same time pi55ing their deposit up the wall every weekend. These people deserve absolutely no sympathy whatsoever. Those who do what every generation has done before and make the necessary sacrifices to suceed in the housing market however will be rewarded in the long term.

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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