Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
The Masked Tulip

Bbc Suddenly Discovered House Price Problems - In The Us

Recommended Posts

The BBC has done several interesting news items on News 24 today - almost as if there is a theme on housing. Or perhaps they just stuck them all out on a sunny winter afternoon so that no one will notice.

1. New York now has 60,000 homeless people - a staggering 25,000 of whom are children. But the homeless are increasingly people who have jobs but who cannot afford to actually even rent, let alone buy, a property in NY. The income inequality between what people earn and what it costs to rent is the biggest in the US apparently.

2. Boulder, Colorado - similar to the above re the income inequality between what people earn and what it costs to rent buy. Boulder has become increasingly trendy with a huge influx of people from California, Hollywood types and Silicon Valley types, moving to the area.

The town has loads going for it - it feels like a small town and, rare in the US, over the decades the town council has bought loads of land around the outskirts which are basiclaly now public parks. So it is a great place for people who enjoy outdoor activities. The recent drug legislation has also attracted more people with money to the area.

But now people born and bred in the area are finding that they cannot afford to live in the town. More and more are now clubbing together to live in 'communes' but Boulder has a law where more than 3 unrelated people cannot live in the same house... so more and more Boulder-born people are finding that they have to break the law to live in their own town.

3. Baton Rouge, Louisiana, is an interesting 'Soylent Green' type scenario. One area of Baton Rouge, which is predominantly white, is lobbying to break away from Baton Rouge and become a new town called 'The City of St. George' - leaving the rest of Baton Rouge, which is mainly black, to fend for itself.

Most of the taxes, which pay for the schools, libraries, etc, in Baton Rouge come from the predominantly white area and hence, although it was not openly mentioned, you got the impression that there is an undercurrent of why should we pay for everyone else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1. New York now has 60,000 homeless people - a staggering 25,000 of whom are children. But the homeless are increasingly people who have jobs but who cannot afford to actually even rent, let alone buy, a property in NY. The income inequality between what people earn and what it costs to rent is the biggest in the US apparently.

By what definition? After the winter they've just had I doubt many of them really had no shelter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

think theres a wall seperating baton rouge if i remember an old story about that correctly. It was strange to watch when i first saw it because it was like one side was nice and affluent, the other was a crap hole. Ive seen similar in places ive lived in the uk, not so much walled off, but the roughest crap holes where you dont stop at red lights cheek by jowl with some of the most affluent areas. Wont be good for anyone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

think theres a wall seperating baton rouge if i remember an old story about that correctly. It was strange to watch when i first saw it because it was like one side was nice and affluent, the other was a crap hole. Ive seen similar in places ive lived in the uk, not so much walled off, but the roughest crap holes where you dont stop at red lights cheek by jowl with some of the most affluent areas. Wont be good for anyone.

If they dont re-district, they'll just move away wholesale out of the reach of the city government...ie detroit. People go on about how Detroit has 'lost' 3/4ths of its population...the reality is the metro area is pretty much as populated as its ever been...they just moved outside the city limits.

They can blame it on racism all they want, but its a darn good way to make sure local governments work to keep their cattle/cash cows...or else those cows wander off somewhere else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By what definition? After the winter they've just had I doubt many of them really had no shelter.

The item showed people being helped to get off the streets into shelters during the extreme cold.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By what definition? After the winter they've just had I doubt many of them really had no shelter.

When I briefly lived in NYC there was a homeless tent city that sprang up during the summer and moved south (all the way to California from what locals said) for the winter so perhaps some of that number, at least the section of it that is jobless, might be similarly transient? Also, as you say the definition might not simply be access to shelter: some of those with jobs may be sofa surfing and so considered technically homeless (certainly with no security of shelter). Renting sofas rather than rooms is also not unheard of, I'm not sure how that would be officially categorised as it's probably illegal and therefore a hidden activity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I briefly lived in NYC there was a homeless tent city that sprang up during the summer and moved south (all the way to California from what locals said) for the winter so perhaps some of that number, at least the section of it that is jobless, might be similarly transient? Also, as you say the definition might not simply be access to shelter: some of those with jobs may be sofa surfing and so considered technically homeless (certainly with no security of shelter). Renting sofas rather than rooms is also not unheard of, I'm not sure how that would be officially categorised as it's probably illegal and therefore a hidden activity.

Most homeless people could not even afford a sofa, let a lone rent one. :)

I think the homeless figures for New York are probably higher than 60k as they probably have a looser definition of homeless than we do.

I think in the UK if you live in a temporary hostel you're classed as homeless, which I think it's reasonable to say is a fair definition as after all the term is about whether people have a home, rather than whether they're living on the streets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most homeless people could not even afford a sofa, let a lone rent one. :)

I think the homeless figures for New York are probably higher than 60k as they probably have a looser definition of homeless than we do.

I think in the UK if you live in a temporary hostel you're classed as homeless, which I think it's reasonable to say is a fair definition as after all the term is about whether people have a home, rather than whether they're living on the streets.

I agree. My comment about sofa renting was more that people doing this might have to lie on certain forms and thereby end up being counted amongst the homeless data. Also to further illustrate that rents have gone haywire!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree. My comment about sofa renting was more that people doing this might have to lie on certain forms and thereby end up being counted amongst the homeless data. Also to further illustrate that rents have gone haywire!

Too right.

I'm a bit of a lefty admittedly, so don't have the most balanced view on this but I'd be tempted to include a proportion of people on ASTs under the homelessness figures myself - especially those who live in shared housing as many have to move out after six or twelve months.

Are there any official figures related to this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They say that what happens in the US soon comes to the UK.

There used to be plenty of homeless/sleeping rough people in the UK in the 80s and 90s but (apparently) less so in recent times.

Maybe they're trying to prepare people.

Apart from that it could also be a variation on the theme that UK politicians are so keen on and that is to tell the rest of the world (mainly directed at Germany and the US and at the same time trying to convince UK people) how they should run their countries like the amazingly successful UK economy during yet another debt binge - often just before an election.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The BBC has done several interesting news items on News 24 today - almost as if there is a theme on housing. Or perhaps they just stuck them all out on a sunny winter afternoon so that no one will notice.

1. New York now has 60,000 homeless people - a staggering 25,000 of whom are children. But the homeless are increasingly people who have jobs but who cannot afford to actually even rent, let alone buy, a property in NY. The income inequality between what people earn and what it costs to rent is the biggest in the US apparently.

2. Boulder, Colorado - similar to the above re the income inequality between what people earn and what it costs to rent buy. Boulder has become increasingly trendy with a huge influx of people from California, Hollywood types and Silicon Valley types, moving to the area.

The town has loads going for it - it feels like a small town and, rare in the US, over the decades the town council has bought loads of land around the outskirts which are basiclaly now public parks. So it is a great place for people who enjoy outdoor activities. The recent drug legislation has also attracted more people with money to the area.

But now people born and bred in the area are finding that they cannot afford to live in the town. More and more are now clubbing together to live in 'communes' but Boulder has a law where more than 3 unrelated people cannot live in the same house... so more and more Boulder-born people are finding that they have to break the law to live in their own town.

3. Baton Rouge, Louisiana, is an interesting 'Soylent Green' type scenario. One area of Baton Rouge, which is predominantly white, is lobbying to break away from Baton Rouge and become a new town called 'The City of St. George' - leaving the rest of Baton Rouge, which is mainly black, to fend for itself.

Most of the taxes, which pay for the schools, libraries, etc, in Baton Rouge come from the predominantly white area and hence, although it was not openly mentioned, you got the impression that there is an undercurrent of why should we pay for everyone else.

Come again?...said the virgin to her uncle.....WTF?

Edited by dances with sheeple

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The BBC has done several interesting news items on News 24 today - almost as if there is a theme on housing. Or perhaps they just stuck them all out on a sunny winter afternoon so that no one will notice.

1. New York now has 60,000 homeless people - a staggering 25,000 of whom are children. But the homeless are increasingly people who have jobs but who cannot afford to actually even rent, let alone buy, a property in NY. The income inequality between what people earn and what it costs to rent is the biggest in the US apparently.

2. Boulder, Colorado - similar to the above re the income inequality between what people earn and what it costs to rent buy. Boulder has become increasingly trendy with a huge influx of people from California, Hollywood types and Silicon Valley types, moving to the area.

The town has loads going for it - it feels like a small town and, rare in the US, over the decades the town council has bought loads of land around the outskirts which are basiclaly now public parks. So it is a great place for people who enjoy outdoor activities. The recent drug legislation has also attracted more people with money to the area.

But now people born and bred in the area are finding that they cannot afford to live in the town. More and more are now clubbing together to live in 'communes' but Boulder has a law where more than 3 unrelated people cannot live in the same house... so more and more Boulder-born people are finding that they have to break the law to live in their own town.

3. Baton Rouge, Louisiana, is an interesting 'Soylent Green' type scenario. One area of Baton Rouge, which is predominantly white, is lobbying to break away from Baton Rouge and become a new town called 'The City of St. George' - leaving the rest of Baton Rouge, which is mainly black, to fend for itself.

Most of the taxes, which pay for the schools, libraries, etc, in Baton Rouge come from the predominantly white area and hence, although it was not openly mentioned, you got the impression that there is an undercurrent of why should we pay for everyone else.

So? I thought this was the neoliberal dream. Unfettered capitalism.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not just the US, the UK too!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-31762127

"Many Britons have been brought up with "getting on the property ladder" as a major life goal. But is the ladder disappearing, asks Mariella Frostrup."

Curious.

Only 15 years late but we

Not just the US, the UK too!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-31762127

"Many Britons have been brought up with "getting on the property ladder" as a major life goal. But is the ladder disappearing, asks Mariella Frostrup."

Curious.

Only 15 + years late but welcome. I guess we will soon be reading about the Dodo going extinct on the BBC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not just the US, the UK too!

http://www.bbc.co.uk...gazine-31762127

"Many Britons have been brought up with "getting on the property ladder" as a major life goal. But is the ladder disappearing, asks Mariella Frostrup."

Curious.

....she then goes on to declare the sole reason why prices are high:-

It's simple - we're not building enough new homes, and we haven't done so for years.

No mention of credit made cheap and loosely available, banks being bailed out, and a series of deliberate government interventions to prop up house prices - if these three things did not exist, house prices would be vastly lower than they are today - especially given the real reduction in wages and per-capita GDP/productivity. No, "it's simple". "It's simple" because it's published on the BBC who are utterly crap at doing their job of uncovering the truth without fear or favour.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

....she then goes on to declare the sole reason why prices are high:-

No mention of credit made cheap and loosely available, banks being bailed out, and a series of deliberate government interventions to prop up house prices - if these three things did not exist, house prices would be vastly lower than they are today - especially given the real reduction in wages and per-capita GDP/productivity. No, "it's simple". "It's simple" because it's published on the BBC who are utterly crap at doing their job of uncovering the truth without fear or favour.

Funny isn't it? Are they just clueless, or are they actively avoiding mentioning these factors?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Come again?...said the virgin to her uncle.....WTF?

The rule is quite common in many US cities - and particularly suburban areas - which Boulder is, as well as being a college town. The rule exists to prevent houses in neighborhoods of single family dwellings being turned into student houses. It is one of the rare instances of planning (aka zoning) rules being applied in the US. Essentially, all zoning restrictions are ways in which a community agrees to bind in a way that restricts individual freedom because there is a (possibly erroneous) perception that if any individual exercised that freedom, they could thereby impose costs upon others in the community.

There are huge disparities in the extent to which zoning laws exist. Generally, in republican type states - e.g. Texas, Georgia, zoning rules are near non-existent. The resulting urban sprawl around cities such as Dallas and Houston would probably not be thought attractive by many Europeans. Around Atlanta, many houses have been built without taking into account the fact that the demand for water will increase, but the supply is limited; water restrictions (hose pipe bans etc) are increasingly being applied in prior equally low rainfall years, such bans would not have been necessary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

....she then goes on to declare the sole reason why prices are high:-

No mention of credit made cheap and loosely available, banks being bailed out, and a series of deliberate government interventions to prop up house prices - if these three things did not exist, house prices would be vastly lower than they are today - especially given the real reduction in wages and per-capita GDP/productivity. No, "it's simple". "It's simple" because it's published on the BBC who are utterly crap at doing their job of uncovering the truth without fear or favour.

Agreed. There is no shortage. Just vast mis-use eg loads empty especially city centre flats bought by overseas "investors"; grannies in mansions or good family size houses bought decades ago they're rattling around in while families are squashed into tiny flats etc all because prices are too high.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Too right.

I'm a bit of a lefty admittedly, so don't have the most balanced view on this but I'd be tempted to include a proportion of people on ASTs under the homelessness figures myself - especially those who live in shared housing as many have to move out after six or twelve months.

Are there any official figures related to this?

In the UK? Something like the English housing survey might be somewhat useful, but I don't think it has much granularity about security of tenure (other than distinguishing between private and socially rented households).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • The Prime Minister stated that there were three Brexit options available to the UK:   211 members have voted

    1. 1. Which of the Prime Minister's options would you choose?


      • Leave with the negotiated deal
      • Remain
      • Leave with no deal

    Please sign in or register to vote in this poll. View topic


×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.