Should Canabis Be Legalised?

[Jason]

I've just watched the program on Channel 4, and would like to know what HPC thinks?

I'll start... it's an overwhelming yes!

[MrPin]

No worse than booze or fags!

Although I prefer booze, but I do stop occasionally, as I have to drive!

[erat_forte]

Stupid question.

[Bora Horza]

Yes.

I don't agree with its proponents who claim cannabis use is risk free - I've seen too many people lose motivation, start to have mental health illnesses (depression, forms of psychosis) related to cannabis use. Often they can't see the damage it's causing them.

However the current laws clearly aren't working because cannabis is so widely available. If the stuff was legal it could be managed, regulated, and the criminal groups kept out. There is also a libertarian element to my thinking - if people want to risk messing themselves up, that's their choice as long as they bear the costs and consequences related to their actions.

[long time lurking]

Yes.

I don't agree with its proponents who claim cannabis use is risk free - I've seen too many people lose motivation, start to have mental health illnesses (depression, forms of psychosis) related to cannabis use. Often they can't see the damage it's causing them.

However the current laws clearly aren't working because cannabis is so widely available. If the stuff was legal it could be managed, regulated, and the criminal groups kept out. There is also a libertarian element to my thinking - if people want to risk messing themselves up, that's their choice as long as they bear the costs and consequences related to their actions.

No different to alcohol it`s all about moderation nothings going to be risk free when it comes drugs of any kind

Its costing the tax payers millions trying to maintain prohibition which as you say has failed,it could make the taxpayer millions http://rt.com/usa/226323-us-marijuana-industry-report/

[chronyx]

Yes because then all the pro lot would finally shut the ****** up about it

If they want to ruin their minds they're going to find a way regardless.

[UncleMeat]

Just got back from Amsterdam and they have really cleared up the party zone. A lot of coffee shops have rebranded as bars but you can still smoke weed in them. Was a lot more relaxed than I remember things being a few years ago.

They even had a big flashy road warning sign outside central station telling people to avoid street coke sellers due to tourist deaths from dodgy gear.

So much more enlightened.

[blobloblob]

Given that it's legal in many places, remains in your system for weeks if not months, and having it in your system at all counts as 'possession' in the UAE, how does that all work for the Dutch, Spanish, Portuguese and Washington Statish Americans changing flights in Dubai?

[sPinwheel]

Declare war on it. That shoukd work.

[robo1968]

Yes because then all the pro lot would finally shut the ****** up about it

If they want to ruin their minds they're going to find a way regardless.

Have had the misfortune of having to share my place with a stoner for the past year or two, great way to put my son off the stuff, the guy was a total d*ckhead filled with paranoia.

I know someone who works in the local mental hospital, most of the patients have been habitual users and they hate weed more than any other drug.

Why not legalise it and then do them for tax evasion

[Rave]

I voted yes as an instinctive reaction, but reading the actual question OP you've added "and regulated"...

As a Minarchist I don't even want it regulated let alone prohibited. I've smoked enough in my time to know that it tends to make me paranoid, and so I choose to indulge very carefully if at all.

[DTMark]

I can maybe speak for both sides of the argument. Familiar with both alcohol and marijuana.

The latter is the more enjoyable (for me) but, importantly, the more insidious of the two. It has no downside as in hangover. At worst, if you have too much, you'll just fall asleep and feel pleasantly relaxed the next day.

Either ban both, or legalise both.

And since I'm not a fan of banning things, the answer is to legalise marijuana.

This is not a moral or medical discussion, however. Those issues are totally irrelevant to whether it is legalised or not.

The only math that will be done is as regards the tax take. Which is why I strongly suspect that it will indeed be legalised.

As they say, all things in moderation. And those who have "addictive personalities" may well find themselves addicted to weed rather than alcohol as a result (the two don't go together at all well). In the longer term, I suspect this is the more favourable of the two.

[long time lurking]

I smoked it for years then gave up about 8 year ago (well still have a puff now and again music festivals and the like) due to drug testing in the workplace

I voted yes ,as i see it as a total waste of money trying to prohibit it when it has failed so spectacularly ,i`m sure that money could be spent elsewhere with better effect

I would never say it`s harmless just like i would never say alcohol is harmless,theres very little if any anti social behaviour connected to it unlike alcohol so any adverse affects are only suffered by the user and thats their choice

Then you have the proven medical benefits which at this moment in time are only available through a few (maybe just one) pharmaceutical companies at a great cost to the NHS

[erat_forte]

Someone voted 'no' though! Who and why?

[dinker]

I would love to grow my own - legalise it and I can get cracking.

[Bora Horza]

I expected a "yes" majority but I'm still surprised at how strong the consensus is.

[AThirdWay]

It's a yes from me, although DTMark hits the nail on the head. Weed is an insidious high, all the worse for the lack of a downside. You can get high, high, high every night with very little physical penalty. There are major mental health issues with long term use, but that's not obvious in the short to medium term.

I was in a hard drinking working environment for nearly 20 years however, and without a shadow of a doubt, alcohol creates far more problems in society than MJ.

For that reason alone, it simply isn't logical that it is illegal.

[Frank Hovis]

i can't stand it and find heavy users incredibly irritating with their mixture of smugness and laziness but legalising and controlling it looks like the best approach.

[Jason]

I'm not sure how many watched the C4 program, but I'll admit I never knew the differences between Skunk and the old style Hash/Resin. It simply isn't just stronger.

If it were regulated you could ensure the least harmful style was on the market. I'm assuming at the least VAT would be added, if not add duty like cigarettes. Thirdly, you would hit the criminal gangs hard as production would be pointless!

The only big downside I can see is the smoking related illnesses.

[long time lurking]

I'm not sure how many watched the C4 program, but I'll admit I never knew the differences between Skunk and the old style Hash/Resin. It simply isn't just stronger.

If it were regulated you could ensure the least harmful style was on the market. I'm assuming at the least VAT would be added, if not add duty like cigarettes. Thirdly, you would hit the criminal gangs hard as production would be pointless!

The only big downside I can see is the smoking related illnesses.

Watched the doc just to much in the way of generalization`s when it came to the difference between the strength of so called skunk opposed to hash/resin

Very poor when they were so called experts in their field

[DTMark]

i can't stand it and find heavy users incredibly irritating with their mixture of smugness and laziness but legalising and controlling it looks like the best approach.

I wouldn't watch this if I were you.

See what I did there?

It causes you to come up with a barely passable cover of one of the best rap songs ever (Geto Boys, Damn it Feels Good to Be a Gangsta)

Alcohol is a social drug.

Marijuana works better as a private experience or where a group of you are for instance watching a DVD.

It also saps motivation.

Alcohol reduces capability in all sorts of ways. However when it wears off, and you can tell when that has happened - because you stop feeling like crap - you revert back to your baseline. However if you keep going with it daily, you will do yourself physical damage.

The insidious nature of marijuana means that when used regularly, your "baseline" actually shifts. However you won't know that has happened until you stop using it for a period during which you may experience, for example, night sweats, psychosis, paranoia, anxiety and confusion. The withdrawal symptoms vary from person to person and appear to be related to aspects such as metabolism and weight.

So some regular users' solution is: don't stop using it.

[SNACR]

No, it does educated liberal middle class people good to experience belonging to a part of society that's criminalised.

[DTMark]

I'm not sure that everyone will get that, but I do. I know exactly what you're getting at

[MrPin]

Someone voted 'no' though! Who and why?

Man, they are probably drinking the bong-water again!

[StainlessSteelCat]

No, it does educated liberal middle class people good to experience belonging to a part of society that's criminalised.

Very good. Tempted to change my vote off the back of that. I can remember a middle class friend relating her fear to me as the police busted a house party where they were all smoking weed. She managed to escape, but I'm sure the experience of being criminalised for what was a normal thing to her did her empathy no harm.

Almost 20 years ago, I lived with a bunch of climbers, who were also heavy users of all kinds of drugs including mostly cannabis (and especially what was known as skunk as the time).

One became a paranoid schizophrenic -and eventually committed suicide before the age of 30. Fairly sure skunk tipped him over the edge as he was always a bit hyped. Desperately sad, as when I first met him he actually a very cool guy with strong levels of motivation for his chosen career. He never actually worked in it due to high levels of cannabis use starting towards the end of his undergraduate degree. I still miss his pre-skunk self.

One has brain cancer in his 40s. In fact I know of another who died of brain cancer in his early 40s too. Surely, quite a high incidence rate - but could have been all of the other stuff being ingested, or simply bad luck.

Most had problems with paranoia, lassitude and motivation during their heaviest periods of use. Thankfully, they collectively realised there was a problem and stopped. It was the fact they lost their passion for climbing that did it.

They are now leading normal, and generally productive lives. A couple still come across as stoners - not sure if that's out of a habit or not though.

This is a group of around eight to a dozen people by the way.

Obviously, this is all anecdote.

Personally, I never tried it as heavy cannabis users are like pissed people - convinced it's brilliant while any outsider can see they are bores. I have absolutely no problem with those using it for pain relief etc.

Despite all of the above - I said legalise it on the basis that people should be able to choose what they do to their own bodies - providing and this is the key thing here, they are willing to take responsibility for the consequences. The problem is, I suspect, society at large will mop up pieces as they do for smokers and alcohol abuse - still the taxes on both of those go someway to mitigate.