spyguy Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/special-reports/11449389/Do-I-need-a-pension-when-Ive-got-five-buy-to-let-properties.html 'Question: "I am 51 and own quite a few properties - but I don't have a pension.' Lets make sure you understand what the word 'own' means first. 'My partner and I have a property portfolio of three UK apartments (in Yorkshire) and a house (in Derbyshire), plus two holiday apartments in a ski resort in Bulgaria.' Doubling up in Bulgaria. What could go wrong. 'We have been prepared to take risks in the past in taking the propertybefore-pension route, but this has clearly not paid off in recent years so I am becoming more risk-averse.' Ah yes, risk. And continues to get worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@contradevian Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 But Labour/Tory will bend over backwards to ensure she can't loose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) There doesn't seem to be any mention of their tax and overall legal liability position etc. If it was a properly run business with the prospects looking so bleak (BTL apartment with no lift so no tenants etc) would the advice be to go bust, liquidate etc and start again and let the lenders and others (maybe builders and their suppliers in some cases) take the loss. After all that seems to be the regular modus operandi for most SME builders (bust restart bust restart bust restart .................................. etc etc etc) and I dare say some lenders etc. Or at least it used to be. interesting that they take their case to the telegraph rather than going to a small business adviser run by the government that the likes of Cameron are always bragging about - maybe there's a Go Fund Me scheme in the offing. Interesting that the telegraph is so short of news that they spent time on it and printed the story - advertising most likely. Edited March 5, 2015 by billybong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIP Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I've run out of tellies to chuck things at. "have little or no equity" - " 'own' quite a few properties". Mutually exclusive statements you silly woman. "quite a few" - you don't know how many? When did you last count them? Bulgarian ones probably been burnt down by now so fair enough. "release the capital to pay off the interest-only main home loan". Arg! "set up our own internet business" - we just make money when people click on the advertisers..... Parasites. ONCE UPON A TIME THIS COUNTRY MADE THINGS. Hilarious that the Torygraph was also once maybe the home of people who knew the value of hard-work, hated debt, etc etc. Now it's just a mouthpiece for the rentiers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
long time lurking Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 This is the bet HPI and capital gains...there was never any other plan when it came to the high LTV IO game The original plan when we went into buy-to-let was to release the capital from these properties in the runup to 2018, to pay off the interest-only mortgage on our home, and leave us with hopefully one or two properties that could provide an income in our old age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted March 5, 2015 Author Share Posted March 5, 2015 This is the bet HPI and capital gains...there was never any other plan when it came to the high LTV IO game The original plan for Ebola was just to infect a few people and spread itself around. Lazy 51 YO bitch wants BTLs to pay for themselves and her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro2706 Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I was depressed until I read the articel: "Most of the properties, while providing a good rental yield (currently due to very low interest rates) have little or no equity."-ie totally screwed if rates rise or capital values fall "The original plan when we went into buy-to-let was to release the capital from these properties in the runup to 2018, to pay off the interest-only mortgage on our home, "-so no capital being paid off main home mortgage "Due to the poor performance of the property market we will have to extend the length of our mortgage "-so what was an oriiginally risky strategy is now more risky "Our household income is around £40,000 per year"-gross income of just over £3k pm to support an interest only mortgae on the main home and any shortfall on 5 BTL properties "We have been prepared to take risks in the past in taking the propertybefore-pension route, but this has clearly not paid off in recent years "-shurely shomme mishhstake-property is a on way bet!Tyhe more you hav ethe wealthier you are! "Our intention is to sell the apartment we own outright in Bulgaria and reinvest the money in an apartment in the same complex as the other apartment we have there, as it will be more rentable due to its central location. The apartment will be sold at a significant loss. However, if reinvested it will buy something of equal value that will hopefully go up in time"..you can smell tyh edepeartion,denial & fear! "The Bulgarian apartment we want to sell is out of town and in a poorly run complex where the lift often does not work so we cannot rent it out. The house in Derbyshire attracts poor-quality tenants who move on frequently, generally leaving it in a state when they vacate. This property often needs costly maintenance."..you need to call the secret agent! What a mess-its not going to end well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
long time lurking Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 The original plan for Ebola was just to infect a few people and spread itself around. Lazy 51 YO bitch wants BTLs to pay for themselves and her. It`s not going to happen as we have known here for a LONG time ,the numbers don`t add up unless theres HPI But they have been waiting for this to happen when the market picks up next year, trouble is they have been doing this for the last decade or so, slowly but surely they are starting to notice the writing on the wall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 This is the bet HPI and capital gains...there was never any other plan when it came to the high LTV IO game I remember discussing this with colleagues in 2007 they said it doesn't matter if the rent covered the mortgage capital gains was how you would make money. Of course the bank shouldn't lend people money on a business like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverwhere Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 The advice given by the Telegraph journo is a refreshing change from the usual ramp-fest: "Your first priority should probably be to reduce your overall exposure to property and decrease the debt associated with the properties you own." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
long time lurking Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) I remember discussing this with colleagues in 2007 they said it doesn't matter if the rent covered the mortgage capital gains was how you would make money. Of course the bank shouldn't lend people money on a business like this. This was the business model advocated buy all the gurus etla at that point in time, i still know people who are falling for it today even when prices around my way, are around the same as they were ten years ago the only differenc between now and then is the punters needs to put more skin in the game All i say now is how much was the place worth ten years ago,i have had that questioned answered with how am i supposed to know that,at that point i gave up Edited March 5, 2015 by long time lurking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldbug9999 Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) I was depressed until I read the articel: "Our intention is to sell the apartment we own outright in Bulgaria and ... Pay down some the debt on your home perhaps, or something else sensible ?? ... ... reinvest the money in an apartment in the same complex as the other apartment we have there . Hell no, lets leverage up some more. Edited March 5, 2015 by goldbug9999 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipllman Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I read this and, whilst I wasn't doing it consciously, a colleague sat opposite me at the time asked why I was shaking my head.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agentimmo Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Flats in Bulgarian ski resorts !! I've a family member who bought one of these around 2005. "Couldn't go wrong" they said. Totally busted - delivered 2 yrs late, builders were setup via an offshore company and went AWOL. The financing side was dodgy and they've lost most of their "investment"....somewhere north of £50K. Today, similar flats sell for £15K and even then there are tons for sale.... My advice to them would be check with their in-laws if they have a spare room for them and all their belongings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borisina Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I worry about that sweet faced dog! What will happen to him/her when this 51 year old hits the skids? PLEASE nobody suggest that he/she is a good source of protein. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 The advice given by the Telegraph journo is a refreshing change from the usual ramp-fest: "Your first priority should probably be to reduce your overall exposure to property and decrease the debt associated with the properties you own." DEbt free home, with diversity in other areas.....quality not quantity.....less, but less of the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest_growlers_* Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I'm struck by the risks people are taking. My landlady was around weekend. She's gone and bought two flats in cape Verde and put £100k in euro debt yielding 10% +. Not making that up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I'm struck by the risks people are taking. My landlady was around weekend. She's gone and bought two flats in cape Verde and put £100k in euro debt yielding 10% +. Not making that up! 2 blokes ( engineers ) at work yesterday were sitting discussing investments ( i.e. putting your money in property ). One bloke was trying to talk some sense into the other bloke, but he was having none of it. Last time I saw something like this was during the dot-com bubble, one bloke was borrowing to invest, told us all we couldnt loose....he lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Bunny Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Love it! HAHAHAHAHA Tweeted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie_George Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Investing in property is almost always leveraged. When your bets go wrong, they'll go wrong badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy soy Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 But Labour/Tory will bend over backwards to ensure she can't loose What do you get when you mix blue and red together? Grey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Neighbours of mine had a tradesman around last week who has 1,000 customers paying him a parts and labour retainer of £60 a year. Turns out he has 20 BTLs in Swansea because his accountant said he was paying too much tax. I was shocked that it took him two days to fix something that I feel I could have solved in an hour. Amazed me what money some people could make, and made me realise that I was chasing the wrong business, but I was shocked about the 20 BTLs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 (edited) Flats in Bulgarian ski resorts !! I've a family member who bought one of these around 2005. "Couldn't go wrong" they said. Totally busted - delivered 2 yrs late, builders were setup via an offshore company and went AWOL. The financing side was dodgy and they've lost most of their "investment"....somewhere north of £50K. Today, similar flats sell for £15K and even then there are tons for sale.... My advice to them would be check with their in-laws if they have a spare room for them and all their belongings. Chatted with a lady who works for Nationwide who told me that she had bought a second home in Bulgaria. I almost wet myself with laughter. Edited March 7, 2015 by The Masked Tulip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 Neighbours of mine had a tradesman around last week who has 1,000 customers paying him a parts and labour retainer of £60 a year. Turns out he has 20 BTLs in Swansea because his accountant said he was paying too much tax. I was shocked that it took him two days to fix something that I feel I could have solved in an hour. Amazed me what money some people could make, and made me realise that I was chasing the wrong business, but I was shocked about the 20 BTLs. Accountant or idiot in the pub who does his books. Not sure who his business works out - 60 * 1000 = 60k/year. He'll spend that in diesel running around his customers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@contradevian Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Chatted with a lady who works for Nationwide who told me that she had bought a second home in Bulgaria. I almost wet myself with laughter. Even the guy who services my Council boiler has BTL's (though he's likely to be a self employed contractor). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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