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SarahBell

Tuition Fees For What?

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Just looked to see when my son will be home for Easter.
I noticed that they a breakdown of what summer term consists of.

Summer Term

Teaching (2 weeks)

Monday 20 April - Friday 1 May
Revision (1 week)

Monday 4 May - Friday 8 May

Assessment/Marking (3 weeks)

Monday 11 May - Friday 29 May

Marking/Moderation/PABS (3 weeks)

Monday 1 June - Friday 19 June

Revision/remedial work/intro work (2 weeks)

Monday 22 June - Fri 3 July

Assessment(1 week)

Monday 6 July - Friday 10 July

Marking/Moderation/Referral PABS (2 weeks)

Monday 13 July - Friday 24 July

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Just looked to see when my son will be home for Easter.

I noticed that they a breakdown of what summer term consists of.

SNIP

When I went to University I received a full state grant, it was about £1,800 a year.

My summer timetable looked remarkably similar in years 2 and 3.

I think the opportunities a University provides are worth the fees for those that can make a use from going to University. The opportunities are more than 'contact time' i.e., being lectured at, or sitting in tutorials.

University is not for everyone however, and for them, the fees are too much.

And, if the intake was slimmed down, perhaps the state could again afford grants. (But then the state would have to also pay more unemployment benefit and explain higher unemployment numbers.)

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Just looked to see when my son will be home for Easter.

I noticed that they a breakdown of what summer term consists of.

Summer Term

Teaching (2 weeks)

Monday 20 April - Friday 1 May

Revision (1 week)

Monday 4 May - Friday 8 May

Assessment/Marking (3 weeks)

Monday 11 May - Friday 29 May

Marking/Moderation/PABS (3 weeks)

Monday 1 June - Friday 19 June

Revision/remedial work/intro work (2 weeks)

Monday 22 June - Fri 3 July

Assessment(1 week)

Monday 6 July - Friday 10 July

Marking/Moderation/Referral PABS (2 weeks)

Monday 13 July - Friday 24 July

He's getting very, very little for his money. While marking is going on most lecturers aren't even on campus.

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He's getting very, very little for his money. While marking is going on most lecturers aren't even on campus.

Presumably, he is not barred from using the University facilities.

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Presumably, he is not barred from using the University facilities.

I imagine the library, sports and social facilities are open still yes.

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I imagine the library, sports and social facilities are open still yes.

So, lots of resources and he can always go and knock on a lecturer's door and say 'Hi, is there a project I could do ?'

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So, lots of resources and he can always go and knock on a lecturer's door and say 'Hi, is there a project I could do ?'

Nice idea. I don't know about his lecturers but ours were always too busy with their pHd students to be bothered with undergrads needing anything.

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Nice idea. I don't know about his lecturers but ours were always too busy with their pHd students to be bothered with undergrads needing anything.

I don't think he'll find the lecturers too busy for initiative. At the same time, he won't get hours of 'hand-holding attention'. Those that seek, get, generally. A University is full of opportunity. And if the lecturer has a PhD student or post-doc, well, they can always do with a helping hand, and that will give useful experience too. You might not be set free on the most expensive piece of kit, but just researching a subject will be valuable.

Not everyone will be able to make use of the fees they pay or see the opportunity on offer. Those 'students' are perhaps naive or mis-sold.

Too much now the University experience is driven by the fee paying students and what they expect, and whose only example of what to expect is school and the contact time they had when at school. Consequently, students arrive at University expecting school-level contact, and the University, frightened of negative feedback and poor student ratings in the league tables, tries timidly, to comply. It's not about that.

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I don't think he'll find the lecturers too busy for initiative. At the same time, he won't get hours of 'hand-holding attention'. Those that seek, get, generally. A University is full of opportunity. And if the lecturer has a PhD student or post-doc, well, they can always do with a helping hand, and that will give useful experience too. You might not be set free on the most expensive piece of kit, but just researching a subject will be valuable.

Not everyone will be able to make use of the fees they pay or see the opportunity on offer. Those 'students' are perhaps naive or mis-sold.

Too much now the University experience is driven by the fee paying students and what they expect, and whose only example of what to expect is school and the contact time they had when at school. Consequently, students arrive at University expecting school-level contact, and the University, frightened of negative feedback and poor student ratings in the league tables, tries timidly, to comply. It's not about that.

True Unis are normally full of interesting things happening.

But also, young jiggly bossomed 20 yos.

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So, lots of resources and he can always go and knock on a lecturer's door and say 'Hi, is there a project I could do ?'

Meanwhile in the real world students lie on the grass enjoying the sunshine and the break from lectures.

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True Unis are normally full of interesting things happening.

But also, young jiggly bossomed 20 yos.

Cambridge: City of beautiful young women in short skirts riding bicycles.

If that's not the city motto, it should be.

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Cambridge: City of beautiful young women in short skirts riding bicycles.

If that's not the city motto, it should be.

At least the Cambridge men get a lecture, included in their tuition fees, on keeping their hands away from the girls riding bicycles ....

http://www.ischoolguide.com/articles/2692/20140923/cambridge-university-mandates-freshmen-attend-mandatory-sexual-consent-workshops.htm

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I don't think he'll find the lecturers too busy for initiative. At the same time, he won't get hours of 'hand-holding attention'. Those that seek, get, generally. A University is full of opportunity. And if the lecturer has a PhD student or post-doc, well, they can always do with a helping hand, and that will give useful experience too. You might not be set free on the most expensive piece of kit, but just researching a subject will be valuable.

Not everyone will be able to make use of the fees they pay or see the opportunity on offer. Those 'students' are perhaps naive or mis-sold.

Too much now the University experience is driven by the fee paying students and what they expect, and whose only example of what to expect is school and the contact time they had when at school. Consequently, students arrive at University expecting school-level contact, and the University, frightened of negative feedback and poor student ratings in the league tables, tries timidly, to comply. It's not about that.

Yes, I'd agree with much of this. I managed to make myself standout by asking awkward questions and taking huge risks with my exam answers. My view was that coming from a very poor family with low expectations of formal education, I had really nothing to lose. It did not get me a brilliant grade, but I did get invited back to do firstly some research, and then a job on a 1 year educational project. The remit for that was quickly expanded when I rewrote and redesigned one of the undergraduate courses in a weekend. I was gauche enough to ignore my supervisor's caution and pinned it to the lecturer in charge's door on the Monday. Thankfully the recipient loved it.

I leveraged that to get seconded on various other projects - and eventually stayed for 3 years until I turned it into a complete career change. Lecturers do love initiative but most students are too much in awe of them and very timid. In the time I worked at the university, and in subsequent occasional lecturing - only one student I came into contact with showed similar amounts of initiative.

Were I a teen/20 something again - I would ask a lot more questions and for a lot more help. You would be surprised how many middle aged/old grumpy gits will happily indulge someone who is young, keen and shows aptitude.

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Yes, I'd agree with much of this. I managed to make myself standout by asking awkward questions and taking huge risks with my exam answers. My view was that coming from a very poor family with low expectations of formal education, I had really nothing to lose. It did not get me a brilliant grade, but I did get invited back to do firstly some research, and then a job on a 1 year educational project. The remit for that was quickly expanded when I rewrote and redesigned one of the undergraduate courses in a weekend. I was gauche enough to ignore my supervisor's caution and pinned it to the lecturer in charge's door on the Monday. Thankfully the recipient loved it.

I leveraged that to get seconded on various other projects - and eventually stayed for 3 years until I turned it into a complete career change. Lecturers do love initiative but most students are too much in awe of them and very timid. In the time I worked at the university, and in subsequent occasional lecturing - only one student I came into contact with showed similar amounts of initiative.

Were I a teen/20 something again - I would ask a lot more questions and for a lot more help. You would be surprised how many middle aged/old grumpy gits will happily indulge someone who is young, keen and shows aptitude.

This is excellent advice. I look back at my time at university and continue to be full of regret for being too timid to show my lectures how I was able and interested in the subject matter.

I'd say that university is wasted on the young, maybe a few years of mcJob'ing is what's needed to focus the mind before embarking on exploitative academia.

That said, I think values are a bit different these days on effort at university. Looking at the ONS stats on teetotalism in the under 24s tells you everything you need to know. The pressure that young people face coming out of uni with 50K of debt and no guaranteed jobs probably focus the mind enough to get your moneys worth.

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Each to their own. Some can turn that to an opportunity.

Most people at uni, as well as enjoying their time, want a decent degree that will get them a decent job.

They're not there to go into academia.

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Most people at uni, as well as enjoying their time, want a decent degree that will get them a decent job.

They're not there to go into academia.

I wasn't, although it could have happened! Unfortunaltely, I was so thick, that I would only get a "very daft" research topic!

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Sadly it looks all too typical of some University courses.

In many ways it is a bizarre concept that we take groups of young people, move them at great expense miles from their normal place of residence and then subject them to low intensity education over a long period of time for which they are charged a small fortune. I can't imagine my employer sending me on a training course that involved only a few hours lectures a week interspersed with 'private study'. In fact most businesses now expect staff to do the bulk of their training online or via CBT only running staffed courses where role play and personal interaction is required. Many University courses are run on lines that have not changed since the late middle ages. When is someone finally going to bite the bullet and bring their practises into the modern world.

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Nice idea. I don't know about his lecturers but ours were always too busy with their pHd students to be bothered with undergrads needing anything.

From what some of my colleagues at work tell me about their children's experiences at Uni this is a growing problem at many modern institutions. While students need to be challenged to take some responsibility for exploring their subject and to be encouraged to develop their own ideas they need rather more interaction with their lecturers and tutors than many seem to be getting. If they don't get that experience I don't see the point of may of the courses run by these institutions since the facilities such as large specialist libraries that used to be the preserve of Universities can now be provided electronically. I am increasingly sceptical of what is really being offered to some students now outside of the specialist science, engineering and medical disciplines.

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Most people at uni, as well as enjoying their time, want a decent degree that will get them a decent job.

They're not there to go into academia.

I'd agree with your first point, otherwise what are you doing there ?

I don't see how your second point contradicts your first.

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From what some of my colleagues at work tell me about their children's experiences at Uni this is a growing problem at many modern institutions. While students need to be challenged to take some responsibility for exploring their subject and to be encouraged to develop their own ideas they need rather more interaction with their lecturers and tutors than many seem to be getting. If they don't get that experience I don't see the point of may of the courses run by these institutions since the facilities such as large specialist libraries that used to be the preserve of Universities can now be provided electronically. I am increasingly sceptical of what is really being offered to some students now outside of the specialist science, engineering and medical disciplines.

Perhaps some need more interaction that they are getting - perhaps they shouldn't be at University ?

I agree there has been inflation in the number of irrelevant courses. Students don't have to fill them, of course. The courses would close without any applicants.

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