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spyguy

Why Is Most Stuff From China Sh1T?

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I've been reading the LED light and Chinese motor bike threads.

I remember the powered milk scare the other year which saw Chinese people emptying Western supermarkets of formula milk.

Its not as bad as people make out - stuff produced by non-Chinese firms in China appears to good.

But then its mainly electronic and made by robots in China.

Most of ebay seems populated by cr.p non-brands, or total fakes.

Comparisons to Japan fail.

Japanese quality started low and ramped up pretty quick.

Japanese products 1950s were cheap + cheerful.

Japanese products by 1970s were fantastic.

Off you go.

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I've been reading the LED light and Chinese motor bike threads.

I remember the powered milk scare the other year which saw Chinese people emptying Western supermarkets of formula milk.

Its not as bad as people make out - stuff produced by non-Chinese firms in China appears to good.

But then its mainly electronic and made by robots in China.

Most of ebay seems populated by cr.p non-brands, or total fakes.

Comparisons to Japan fail.

Japanese quality started low and ramped up pretty quick.

Japanese products 1950s were cheap + cheerful.

Japanese products by 1970s were fantastic.

Off you go.

Part of the answer is in your question - eBay and it's ilk make it easier for people to import directly. in earlier days, goods would be imported by a dealer who would likely ensure the goods were of good quality to protect their reputation and meet legal stabdards.

I am concerned about cheap, counterfeit chinese goods - I heard somewhere that a very large % of cable imported to the UK is counterfeit and does not meet safety standards, but major Chinese manufacturers can produce good quality goods.

Also, in the UK we seem to have a culture where we are happy to buy counterfeit goods, even if we know they are crap. The label, real or fake, seems more important than quality to some people.

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It's down to cost. Say B&Q want to sell a £40 drill they get their suppliers (from China) to spec and then produce a £40 drill. This drill is obviously rubbish, but it does retail for £40. If we asked China to make a £300 drill then it would probably last forever, but what's the point of that?

They make, what we want. Cheap drills for £40.

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I've been reading the LED light and Chinese motor bike threads.

I remember the powered milk scare the other year which saw Chinese people emptying Western supermarkets of formula milk.

Its not as bad as people make out - stuff produced by non-Chinese firms in China appears to good.

But then its mainly electronic and made by robots in China.

Most of ebay seems populated by cr.p non-brands, or total fakes.

Comparisons to Japan fail.

Japanese quality started low and ramped up pretty quick.

Japanese products 1950s were cheap + cheerful.

Japanese products by 1970s were fantastic.

Off you go.

i'm starting to come around to the notion that their hearts arent fully in it. Not sure why. What could be more fufilling than work long long hours in toxic and mindnumbing factories making really good quality sh!t for us in the west for next to nothing, while we sit around uploading pictures of our cats into social media, while our houses make us money instead.

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XswampyX is exactly correct. The Chinese are very good at manufacturing stuff, the world leaders in this field. They will make exactly what they are asked to make but the trouble is, people keep asking them to make stuff that's 'cheap' rather than stuff that's 'good'.

Having said that, if you're an importer or if you outsource your manufacturing to a Chinese company, you need to monitor quality of anything made there in the long term too. They might start off making a <thing> with fantastic, expensive, reliable components. Over time time though, they shop around and find a cheaper capacitor here, a cheaper bit of cable there etc etc etc. Each component saves a few pence to the manufacturer, adding to their bottom line. However, if the cheap component fails 20 times more than the expensive component, the purchaser suffers.

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I bought an in car dashcam from Hong Kong last year. Agreed, no the finest piece of electronic engineering from China but it does the job reasonably well. :)

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Labour costs in China are rising fast so mere wage arbitrage no longer guarantees an advantage. As a consequence something has to give in the manufacturing process. Anyway there is no money in quality as people seem to want cheap and disposable. No one is prepared to pay the price for a product that lasts for years. The Chinese are merely serving the mentality of the market which seems to revel in cheap crap.

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The concept of "planned obsolescence" has been around a long time.

Like this quote from the link:

In 1960, cultural critic Vance Packard published The Waste Makers, promoted as an exposé of "the systematic attempt of business to make us wasteful, debt-ridden, permanently discontented individuals".

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Off you go.

On the subject of LED bulbs, if you're an informed shopper who goes out and buys a genuine CREE LED fitted into a genuine Fenix or Convoy flashlight from a reliable trader, and all of these things currently exist, direct from China you'll be in receipt of a well-made stonking bit of technology that's very unlikely to fail and/or take your arm off. You'll pay more than a fiver but it won't cost you the earth either. I've got a Fenix/Cree combo that's lasted over eight years of hard use and assisted by an o-ring change and some lubrication it's still chugging along.

I'm currently puffing on a e-cig, the battery casing end of which is composed of some machined bits of heavyweight stainless steel and copper and a mechanical switch. Tolerances are good, threads are good, been using it for months without so much as a hiccup. Delivered from China, about a tenner. As a piece of light engineering it's faultless. The Western produced equivalent on which it is, er, based retails at over a ton.

The question's already been answered. They sell us cheap shit because we want cheap sh1t. If you're looking for not so cheap not so sh1t they'll do that too. If you're foolish or not paying attention they'll also be more than happy to sell you the cheap sh1t at a higher price.

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I disagree that everything made in China is useless tat! That's probably your computer motherboard, and they seem to be OK. I just checked mine and it's made in Taiwan which is far better than China, Sorry Ting Tong! :blink:

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Anyway there is no money in quality as people seem to want cheap and disposable. No one is prepared to pay the price for a product that lasts for years. The Chinese are merely serving the mentality of the market which seems to revel in cheap crap.

What he said.

The Americans are generally a bit more discerning than us Brits when it comes to recognising/appreciating quality.

I'm sure there must be some historical factors here. Before quality standards were "guaranteed", Brits probably only bought their meat from the reputable butcher without the dodgy scales, their bread from the shop that didn't mix the flour with chalk and their wool for their garments from the local farmer. Reputation then was important because if you sold inferior product you would lose all of your custom.

I presume with the introduction of guarantees and trade standards people just presume products are what they say they are and do what they say they do. So we no longer bother to check that closely.

I've noticed a bit of a flight to quality though since the crash.. Everyone's been trying to drive their prices down while costs haven't changed that much. The result seems to be very cheaply made product.

Because of that I expect enough people are being stung that they are looking around at names like John Lewis, M&S, Costco etc and quality brands.. Just because they are fed up with crap.

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Several reasons.

We want cheap stuff, so we get it.

For the average Chinese, a contract is the beginning of a negotiation. They will try to cut corners, replace components with cheaper ones - because a great number of them are obsessed with getting wealthier. Hardly surprising given the background of many. Buying more expensive stuff is no guarantee of quality.

They might have standards and laws, but many seem unenforceable.

Basically, they are trying to do in decades, what took us hundreds of years i.e. build out a decent lifestyle for their population, some level of environmental, employee and consumer protection while manufacturing stuff for the world.

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What he said.

The Americans are generally a bit more discerning than us Brits when it comes to recognising/appreciating quality.

I'm sure there must be some historical factors here. Before quality standards were "guaranteed", Brits probably only bought their meat from the reputable butcher without the dodgy scales, their bread from the shop that didn't mix the flour with chalk and their wool for their garments from the local farmer. Reputation then was important because if you sold inferior product you would lose all of your custom.

I presume with the introduction of guarantees and trade standards people just presume products are what they say they are and do what they say they do. So we no longer bother to check that closely.

I've noticed a bit of a flight to quality though since the crash.. Everyone's been trying to drive their prices down while costs haven't changed that much. The result seems to be very cheaply made product.

Because of that I expect enough people are being stung that they are looking around at names like John Lewis, M&S, Costco etc and quality brands.. Just because they are fed up with crap.

I think this is true of older people particularly.

Back in the day everything was expensive and nearly all things were of reasonable quality. You bought a screwdriver it would cost, but it would be made out of hardened steel, not the soft crap that many chinese manufacturers use. I have screwdrivers from the 50s that will last forever.

It's good to have the choice between different quality levels, but you need to be discerning.

I get the same moans from the same people over and over again. Bought something of fleabay and turned out to be complete crap. They never learn, because their overwhelming tightness makes their purchasing process completely dysfunctional in an environment where there is a huge range of cost and quality.

When you purchase you need to look for best value, not lowest cost. Hurrah for the chinese. Some of the crimp tools that I use cost 1/10th of the price they would from someplace like RS, and I only need them once a year.

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Chinese manufactures inflation is actually 500% but not on price, on quality.

Pretty soon youll be taking the item back before youve actually bought it.

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i'm starting to come around to the notion that their hearts arent fully in it. Not sure why. What could be more fufilling than work long long hours in toxic and mindnumbing factories making really good quality sh!t for us in the west for next to nothing, while we sit around uploading pictures of our cats into social media, while our houses make us money instead.

:-)

Or perhaps it's because the Chinese have 64 million empty flats to pay for & maintain ?

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They sell us cheap shit because we want cheap sh1t. If you're looking for not so cheap not so sh1t they'll do that too. If you're foolish or not paying attention they'll also be more than happy to sell you the cheap sh1t at a higher price.

I'm not convinced Made In China is necessarily lower quality than Made In Japan.

If the quality control is as it should be why should it be different ?

I recently went camera shopping with my Grandad, he was looking at a Panasonic GH4 with the aim of having something lighter to carry than his Canon 7D. He did his research and his mind was pretty made up, on handling it in the shop he stopped in his tracks when he saw it was Made In China. No Sale.

He then wanted to look at a Nikon, thinking if he was having to hump around a full size DSLR he fancied the new D810e - also Made In China. No sale.

Either of these cameras would have cost over £2000 plus extra batteries, more again for lenses etc.

He ended up buying a new Canon 7D Mk2 - probably because it is Made In Japan.

Whatever the thinking Canon will benefit from making more product in Japan again.

Panasonic and Nikon should do the same.

Even if the quality is the same, many customers expect Made In Japan when they pay top prices, and feel they are being short changed if made in Thailand, Taiwan or China.

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What I was going to post has already been said.

I'm also not convinced that Japanese stuff is what it once was.

I've had several things made by Samsung and they have all been really crap.

Some good quality components hastily assembled and stuffed into some cheap plastic case.

The TV we bought ended up going back for a refund as the casing rattled in harmony with the sound.

Wouldn't touch Samsung again.

However Apple seem to assemble their components rather nicely into a package that works. The devil is in the detail. And the price.

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Also, in the UK we seem to have a culture where we are happy to buy counterfeit goods, even if we know they are crap. The label, real or fake, seems more important than quality to some people.

Whereas I've always got an eye open for the exact opposite. Extra runs that Chinese OEMs knock out, without the Western reseller's brandng.

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What I was going to post has already been said.

I'm also not convinced that Japanese stuff is what it once was.

I've had several things made by Samsung and they have all been really crap.

Some good quality components hastily assembled and stuffed into some cheap plastic case.

The TV we bought ended up going back for a refund as the casing rattled in harmony with the sound.

Wouldn't touch Samsung again.

Samsung is South Korean and what made them was quick timing at the start of the 2010s with their Galaxy devices plus mass marketing; my household got a Samsung tablet, which is pretty good, but their cheaper Galaxy phones are pretty iffy.

I went on a trip to a London anime convention and my Nokia Lumia plus one other guy's silver HTC smartphone seemed to be of more superior build quality to someone's Sony Xperia.

LG (ROK) and Panasonic (JPN) make decent enough TV screens that seem to last forever.

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I stand corrected ;)

Nokia phones do seem very well built.

But then which one sells more - Samsung, or Nokia?

Build quality is so - well, old fashioned isn't it ;)

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But then which one sells more - Samsung, or Nokia?

Build quality is pretty much irrelevant, because Nokia phones run Windows, which almost no-one wants on a phone. Apple own the high end of the market, Android has the mid-range and the cheap crap, so Windows has nowhere to go.

But, yeah, I'm becoming increasingly reluctant to buy anything that says 'Made in China', particularly electrical devices. I don't want to burn the house down to save $10.

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Build quality is pretty much irrelevant, because Nokia phones run Windows, which almost no-one wants on a phone. Apple own the high end of the market, Android has the mid-range and the cheap crap, so Windows has nowhere to go.

But, yeah, I'm becoming increasingly reluctant to buy anything that says 'Made in China', particularly electrical devices. I don't want to burn the house down to save $10.

Since I posted that I'd never buy anything from Samsung ever again, the adverts on this site are now for Samsung mobile phones.

Computers just don't get context, eh? ;)

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