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Neptune

Led Spotlight Problems

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Bought 6 x GU 10 LEDS Lumilifen 4 watts. About £6 each. Great light, warm white for the kitchen, I love LEDs, wish they were cheaper b ut much better IMO than CFLs (poisonous, bad light and dont save as much energy as they make out but just fool the leccy meter in my dodgy and unfounded opinion, LEDs are probably poisonous as well but the light is good).

I put them in two units bought off Amazon for much cheapness, three bulbs in each in parallel, standard stuff. I wired them up to the mains again both in parallel, connected to the consumer unit with maybe two/three more light ( CFLs this time) circuits again in parallel.

When they first got wired up one of the lamps wasnt working ( due to bad connection in light fitting) but the light was bright enough so I left if for 2 months. All well, all good so far.

A couple of weeks ago I decided to fix that light and did so. Two hours after fixing it I noticed one of the bulbs flickering( not the one I fixed incidently) and then go out. I looked at it and one of the leds in the bulb had a black spot. Coincidence with the fixing of the fitting so I thought. Rang the supplier and got a new bulb sent directly. Every thing fine again.

2 days later another bulb flickering this time in the other light ( 3 x bulb) cluster fitting, then dies 3 hours later. Suspecting something up now. One week later ( yesterday) another bulb flickers for a few hours and then dies. So whats going on.

Have googled the brand for any faults in the range, apart from the odd forum post, about a rare failure, everyone seems entirely happy about these bulbs, no real complaints.

So I have had 50 % failure so far and need to know what I have done wrong here, or what is blowing these bulbs.

I suspect that overheating wrecks these bulbs, but the light fittings they are in although cheap dont seem to retain heat like any other GU10 light fitting I have come across and besides the kithchen is kept to HPC levels of heating comfort i.e no radiator and pretty cold.

Can LEDs be wired up wrong to cause them to fail/ burn out like this. Before I tear the place apart looking for a wrong connection

Or have I just been sold a bad batch. Which would be alright as the shop will replace them, I just need to argue my case with some facts from the HPC hive mind.

I know this is noddy stuff compared to the analogue to digital behemouth of a thread going on ( 30 odd pages, who'd of thunk it) but the people on this sight are such a weallth of ideas and knowledge I thought I would give you a shout.

Cheers in advance N.

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There are lots of cheap crap LED lights around.

For example: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/9W-LED-Bulbs-4-6-10-X-High-Power-GU10-MR16-Light-Day-White-Warm-White-Spot-Lamp-/181591687872?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&var=&hash=item2a47b542c0

I bought some of these thinking that as they were from a UK seller, they would be OK.

Nope. Total crap. No attempt to meet UK safety standards and a significant fire risk when I inspected the internal construction. Very limited protection against electric shock too. Due to poor design and construction, I tested some in controlled conditions, and most malfunctioned (flickered or tripped circuit breakers) within 20 hours of testing.

If you want LEDs, you need to stick with well respected big brands, or buy from a retailer big enough to be able to commission an independent engineer's report on the products they sell prior to them going on sale. There are too many dangerous, nasty quality, knock offs.

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LED's are very sensitive to heat, but that usually drives them to become more blue. I suspect that the ballasts in the LED base are at fault here, as being electronic these are also liable to fail with heat. Most commercial electronic devices are only rated for 70C, it's easy to get that in a lamp ballast.

I used to get a lot of CFL failures because of faulty ballasts, turned out it was the design of the lampholder wasn't allowing adequate heat dissipation. I would suspect this is your problem.

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There are lots of cheap crap LED lights around.

For example: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/9W-LED-Bulbs-4-6-10-X-High-Power-GU10-MR16-Light-Day-White-Warm-White-Spot-Lamp-/181591687872?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&var=&hash=item2a47b542c0

I bought some of these thinking that as they were from a UK seller, they would be OK.

Nope. Total crap. No attempt to meet UK safety standards and a significant fire risk when I inspected the internal construction. Very limited protection against electric shock too.

And no way can that enclosure dissipate 9 Watts!

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LEDs are evil, they give the wrong sort of light and make you ill. Just so you know.

Thanks. My last health paranoia fix was got just last week when I decided the bluetooth headphones I just bought and used for about 8 minutes were going to give me brain cancer. They are now in a drawer. Can you give me some links and psuedo scientific reasoning/facts to get my teeth into here, just so I have some quotes etc to spread the fear from this end too. Cheers in advance.

There are lots of cheap crap LED lights around.

For example: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/9W-LED-Bulbs-4-6-10-X-High-Power-GU10-MR16-Light-Day-White-Warm-White-Spot-Lamp-/181591687872?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&var=&hash=item2a47b542c0

I bought some of these thinking that as they were from a UK seller, they would be OK.

Nope. Total crap. No attempt to meet UK safety standards and a significant fire risk when I inspected the internal construction. Very limited protection against electric shock too. Due to poor design and construction, I tested some in controlled conditions, and most malfunctioned (flickered or tripped circuit breakers) within 20 hours of testing.

If you want LEDs, you need to stick with well respected big brands, or buy from a retailer big enough to be able to commission an independent engineer's report on the products they sell prior to them going on sale. There are too many dangerous, nasty quality, knock offs.

Yes those look cheap. The ones I got are these http://www.ledhut.co.uk/spot-lights/gu10-smd-led-220-lumens-45-watts-equiv-best-internet-price.html

They seem well made and there doesnt seem to be any complaints about them anywhere online. This made be think it was something in the light circuit that made them go, especially when they went just after I fixed a simple broken wire in the light fitting. Though I cant see what that could be.

For the record they are 4 watts as well, and the heat seems fairly well dissapated from the bulb ( will do a temp check though).

I just need to know what I'm talking about when I go for a replacement batch to be sent. Although following Erat fortes post I might well go for a full refund.

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Led Spotlight Problems

I put them in two units bought off Amazon for much cheapness

I think I see the problem. Go to a proper electrical wholesaler and buy something decent. Megaman, Philips, Tamlite are all good

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I think I see the problem. Go to a proper electrical wholesaler and buy something decent. Megaman, Philips, Tamlite are all good

I paid £ 17 for the fixtures( which I know is cheap, its just wires and some sockets after all) and £ 6 for the bulbs( which I thought was about right). I see your bulbs are c.£ 17 each. Ouch.. If I have to pay that much to save a bit of leccy , forget it. I'll buy the leccy thanks.

I actually thought the £6 ones I bought were on the limit of being financially viable, as it was.

I checked the temp that the bulbs were getting to. They do get quite hot. There are no vent holes in the shrouds on the fittings. I will drill some and see if it helps.

I was curious to see if wiring up LEDs wrong or having dodgy house wiring could somehow wreck them. I cant see it though.

I had a 30w LED floodlight go on me as well after 1 month. But now I think that was because the PIR was switching it on and off quite frequently.

Cheers for the suggestions though

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As no-one stated the obvious, I'll try to help.

Leds are not bulbs in the true sense. They are Light Emitting Diodes. The lecky only runs one way, so if they light up once, even for 1 second they should be fine.

They are power hungry as I recall, if not wired correctly.

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Check you've got a steady 230ish volts between live and neutral and live and earth. I loose connection could cause fluctuations

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LEDs are evil, they give the wrong sort of light and make you ill. Just so you know.

Ex Vampire! :blink:

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There was a good article in New Scientist a few years back. Basically your eyes have blue receptors that reset your circadian rythym each day from the sun/sky. If you get blue light at night it messes with your sleep cycles, hormones, melatonin etc.

"Black body radiation" as produced by candles, incandescent bulbs etc has a spectrum envelope shaped like a bell curve; if the overall 'color temperature' is quite cool like a 60w or 40w bulb, there is very little blue in the spectrum. Daylight has a much hotter colour temp with a lot more blue in it.

A LED, like a fluorescent tube, doesn't emit black body spectrum, but instead has very narrow bands of emmission. Think of a red or green LED - very pure colour. Well to make a "white" LED they basically make it have just two or three narrow spikes that blend to "look" white, but of course one of those spikes has to be at the blue end of the spectrum. So you sit there all evening under your white LED, and you are getting tons of blue and fecking with your body's melatonin, hormones and sleep cycle.

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I was curious to see if wiring up LEDs wrong or having dodgy house wiring could somehow wreck them. I cant see it though.

I had a bank of three LED GU10s on a circuit that had a dimmer switch on. It was left on low rather than off overnight and all the bulbs were blown by the next day. Changed out the dimmer for a standard switch none have ever gone since. Nor any others around the house in over two years otherwise.

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My feeling has always been that LEDs are happiest with pure DC at a stable voltage and don't really like rectified AC whether from a household supply or car alternator. I suspect a lot designed to fit in exisitng fittings result in a design that's ideal for plug and play but not heat dissipation.

We have a lot of LED lights on truck trailers at work. Some findings have been that certainly cheap crap is to be avoided, they don't like a lot of vibrations - fittings being loose seems to cause premature failure and they also like to be hardwired in. For example, a sealed unit soldered on seems to last indefinitely where LED bulbs that go in existing fittings just don't.

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There are lots of cheap crap LED lights around.

For example: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/9W-LED-Bulbs-4-6-10-X-High-Power-GU10-MR16-Light-Day-White-Warm-White-Spot-Lamp-/181591687872?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&var=&hash=item2a47b542c0

I bought some of these thinking that as they were from a UK seller, they would be OK.

Nope. Total crap. No attempt to meet UK safety standards and a significant fire risk when I inspected the internal construction. Very limited protection against electric shock too. Due to poor design and construction, I tested some in controlled conditions, and most malfunctioned (flickered or tripped circuit breakers) within 20 hours of testing.

If you want LEDs, you need to stick with well respected big brands, or buy from a retailer big enough to be able to commission an independent engineer's report on the products they sell prior to them going on sale. There are too many dangerous, nasty quality, knock offs.

Agree. Stick with Phillips, Osram, GE, Sylvania. Avoid Chinese own brand garbage on Ebay.

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Agree. Stick with Phillips, Osram, GE, Sylvania. Avoid Chinese own brand garbage on Ebay.

Probably! I have one LED lamp. Due to HPC thrift, :blink: the rest of the rooms are unlit! Aren't you the ex-vampire Kurt?

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Bought some LEDs from Poundland recently. e14 or b22 no spotlight though. Surprising bright for 3W and lights up immediately. Good for table lamps and fixtures.

http://www.poundland.co.uk/ultrabrite-led-candle-bulb

Got some of these as well. Give off quite a nice light, they seem actually brighter than some 4W leds I've got. You may wish to shade it though as they are incredibly bright.

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Probably! I have one LED lamp. Due to HPC thrift, :blink: the rest of the rooms are unlit! Aren't you the ex-vampire Kurt?

Yes - Salems Lot.

We have one Phillips LED 12.5W bulb which replaced a 20w CFL. I was very impressed.

We would buy more but we still have several centuries worth of CFL's to get through.

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Years ago, someone on the door of Waitrose was handing out CFL.

If I knew how poor they were and how nervous I would be about having a curled up strip light then I would have never bothered.

I'm currently trying out LEDs. Problem is they last so long I will not be able to remember the better brands.

I have a bag of CFL to take down to the council dump.

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how nervous I would be about having a curled up strip light
Why?

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Swapped the entire light system in the house for CFL ten years ago. I've had a couple blow in that time and I changed the living room CFL which were from IKEA to Bosch or Osram because the IKEA ones flickered. Have had LED in the downstairs bathroom, kitchen spots, outside floodlight and entrance hall for 5 years. All cheap chinese ebay units apart from Kitchen: cheap Lidl bulbs. No problems.

Maybe some HPCers tin foil hats are shorting their lightbulbs?

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Why?

I'm not sure witht that guy but I've broken loads of the things. Last one showered my bedroom with that white powder thats inside them.. I have the grace and dexterity of an elephant on Thorazine so maybe its just me.

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Swapped the entire light system in the house for CFL ten years ago. I've had a couple blow in that time and I changed the living room CFL which were from IKEA to Bosch or Osram because the IKEA ones flickered. Have had LED in the downstairs bathroom, kitchen spots, outside floodlight and entrance hall for 5 years. All cheap chinese ebay units apart from Kitchen: cheap Lidl bulbs. No problems.

Maybe some HPCers tin foil hats are shorting their lightbulbs?

I was hoping the answer to my initial posting was that I had done something curious and weird when wiring the house up. Which would enlighten me and expand my self knowledge. Seems the answer is its just cheap chinese crap I'm using ( which deep down I think I was aware).

What is curious to me is the amount of heat these things produce. How much of a the 4watts of a 4watt rated LED bulb is being converted to light and what is heat. Is the heat generated a product of the AC to DC conversion, that leads to the question that would it be more efficient to keep a portion of self generated electricity ( mostly DC 12 volts I'm presuming here) and using it to run a DC LED light system in the home, rather than invert it to AC and suffer the conversion losses both ways.

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Yes - Salems Lot.

We have one Phillips LED 12.5W bulb which replaced a 20w CFL. I was very impressed.

We would buy more but we still have several centuries worth of CFL's to get through.

We should not discuss "our kind" here! It's getting light here, and I am going back into my coffin! :unsure:

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