Guest eight Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 actually given the situation with ISIS and radical mad mullahs, I'm extremely surprised he's still alive in blackburn,let alone the peoples MP. he and his ilk have to bear some share of responsibility for the clusterf**k government that is UK...however they are still in denial. I had a very vivid dream once, years ago, that Straw converted to islam and held a press conference, surrounded by masked ISIS types, explaining his decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie_George Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I had a very vivid dream once, years ago, that Straw converted to islam and held a press conference, surrounded by masked ISIS types, explaining his decision. Was he wearing an orange jumpsuit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) Rifkind - Im self employed. Im not paid a salary. Blatant.So we have to make a payment to MPs to get them to work for us now?....When you get one or two bad apples rubbing up against good apples there is a high probability that it will turn the others bad....lots of rotten makes them all good....all do it so it must be right? Edit to say: Bad behaviour has to be nipped at the bud or else it leaves them open to bribery and corruption.... Something we do not to see in our world renowned respected parliament....not to be seen to be easily bought by others. Does make you wonder who some of them think they are working for, themselves? Edited February 24, 2015 by winkie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katchytitle Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Just to be brutal westminster is one of the few parts of gov to escape efficiency savings. Lets start by automating as much as we can. Make some cuts, performance based pay is also a goo idea. Ill bet a decent manager could slash the cost of westminster as a business by at least 80%. I still stand by the fact I could automate the whole process with a couple of apps and a website, direct democracy and it would cost ****** all. although tar and feathers also works for me Given that government spending is 50% of the economy - what do you think would happen when you did this? Who would buy the products, pay for big and small business? As an example, Henry Ford increased the wages of his production line workers so they could afford his cars - a virtuous circle ensued - more people got cars - more workers were hired to create cars. This is what the government counts on. Most people cannot start their own business, do not understand anything about the world and the governments of the past have bought their votes again and again for decades until we are left in a position where we need to borrow just to sustain our own economic system paying a huge portion of our taxes as interest to foreign governments who actually bothered creating things the world demanded (albeit without health and safety and negative externalities like climate change to price into their costs). Its a ponzi scheme, the government is the only one allowed to run it because they can change the rules on their own debt whenever they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Given that government spending is 50% of the economy - what do you think would happen when you did this? Who would buy the products, pay for big and small business? As an example, Henry Ford increased the wages of his production line workers so they could afford his cars - a virtuous circle ensued - more people got cars - more workers were hired to create cars. This is what the government counts on. Raise subsidies so people can afford more government? I don't call that a virtuous circle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy soy Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Surely they should undertake a test of honesty and ethics before they stand as an MP....a few spoiling it for the rest, letting the team down isn't on.....if they don't want to be judged by their behaviour, both public and private best not become a politician....who can you trust if you can no longer trust them? I would want some sort of psychological review of anyone wanting to represent the public so we know where they sit on the spectrum. They should then use their results to campaign with come election time. Who would want to vote for a sociopath? Back on topic though, isn't there an argument that we should pay MPs more do they don't have to pimp themselves out at every opportunity and we don't end up with the only the already wealthy and inherited wealth types stuffing parliament turning seats into inherited family positions, like the drax family? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy soy Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Surely they should undertake a test of honesty and ethics before they stand as an MP....a few spoiling it for the rest, letting the team down isn't on.....if they don't want to be judged by their behaviour, both public and private best not become a politician....who can you trust if you can no longer trust them? I would want some sort of psychological review of anyone wanting to represent the public so we know where they sit on the spectrum. They should then use their results to campaign with come election time. Who would want to vote for a sociopath? Back on topic though, isn't there an argument that we should pay MPs more so they don't have to pimp themselves out at every opportunity and we don't end up with the only the already wealthy and inherited wealth types stuffing parliament turning seats into inherited family positions, like the drax family? Or housing in London may be over priced if a knighted mp on 67k is struggling. (He probably isn't, he's probably just another lying, greedy oxygen thief) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax2 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 a certain type of person has no concept of "enough". Herewith, I present exhibits 1 and 2. Angry shouty taxi-man already noted that the one chap collects around £280k/yr on other jobs....so even if you double his MP wages, his total wage will go from £280k to £360k, which isnt such a big rise percentage wise. Nay, these psycopaths have no concept of "enough". They only know "more". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hail the Tripod Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Given that government spending is 50% of the economy - what do you think would happen when you did this? Who would buy the products, pay for big and small business? As an example, Henry Ford increased the wages of his production line workers so they could afford his cars - a virtuous circle ensued - more people got cars - more workers were hired to create cars. This is what the government counts on. How many cars do the government produce? Really they just take the extra money from "Henry Fords workers" so they cannot buy the cars, breaking the virtuous circle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveinHope Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) a certain type of person has no concept of "enough". Herewith, I present exhibits 1 and 2. Angry shouty taxi-man already noted that the one chap collects around £280k/yr on other jobs....so even if you double his MP wages, his total wage will go from £280k to £360k, which isnt such a big rise percentage wise. Nay, these psycopaths have no concept of "enough". They only know "more". Rifkind, when interviewed, said that he only works 75% of his time as an MP - a statement made to a journalist to try to explain to us how he had time for other paid work. It shows he isn't very bright when in a corner. He is paid 100% for being an MP. Presumably, he only takes 75% of his £67K. Patronising twit. Edited February 24, 2015 by LiveinHope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Nose Bear Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Rifkind, when interviewed, said that he only works 75% of his time as an MP - a statement made to a journalist to try to explain to us how he had time for other paid work. It shows he isn't very bright when in a corner. He is paid 100% for being an MP. Presumably, he only takes 75% of his £67K. Patronising twit. To be fair Rifkind probably forgot he is paid as an MP as it's such a piitance compared with his income from his other 'outside' interests http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmregmem/150209/150209.pdf and these are only the ones he declares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveinHope Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) To be fair Rifkind probably forgot he is paid as an MP as it's such a piitance compared with his income from his other 'outside' interests http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmregmem/150209/150209.pdf and these are only the ones he declares That's quite a return upon taxpayer investment I guess he didn't bury his talents (BTW I wish the journalist had replied "but you're paid for being an MP 100% of your time") Edited February 24, 2015 by LiveinHope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (BTW I wish the journalist had replied "but you're paid for being an MP 100% of your time") Sorry but this is rubbish. Firstly being an MP isn't a normal job with contractual hours and holidays. And even if it were, your employer does not own you 24 hours a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Sorry but this is rubbish. Firstly being an MP isn't a normal job with contractual hours and holidays. And even if it were, your employer does not own you 24 hours a day. People are going to assume he is referring to his 'working life' How many people when discussing how much they work refer to it in % of how many hours they are alive per week !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 How many people when discussing how much they work refer to it in % of how many hours they are alive per week !! People who don't get paid by the hour. If you're on the board of several companies as well as having an executive position then you would quite likely talk in terms of percentages. The problem with Rifkind is the 'up for sale' nature of what he's willing to do, not the fact that he's doing outside work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveinHope Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) Sorry but this is rubbish. Firstly being an MP isn't a normal job with contractual hours and holidays. And even if it were, your employer does not own you 24 hours a day. I understand what you are saying, as it would apply to me, and therefore I disagree. (with the caveat that I'd need to see his contract) He first said: "When I was Foreign Secretary that occupied 95% of my time, so I only had 5% to be an MP" "Now, I am not Foreign Secretary, so you see I can work 75% of my time as an MP" He was referring to his working day that he is paid for, as everyone does. He was trying to make it look as if the taxpayer gets a good deal - he was trying to explain himself (or save his skin) If he was referring to 75% of his life, he only has 6 hours each day for everything else. Tosh. Edited February 24, 2015 by LiveinHope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) I understand what you are saying, as it would apply to me, and therefore I disagree. (with the caveat that I'd need to see his contract) He first said: "When I was Foreign Secretary that occupied 95% of my time, so I only had 5% to be an MP" "Now, I am not Foreign Secretary, so you see I can work 75% of my time as an MP" He was referring to his working day that he is paid for, as everyone does. He was trying to make it look as if the taxpayer gets a good deal - he was trying to explain himself (or save his skin) If he was referring to 75% of his life, he only has 6 hours each day for everything else. Tosh. Being an MP is not a 'job' with a 'working day'. His only responsibility is to maintain the confidence of his consituents and to represent them in parliament. Your position just takes us in the wrong direction of treating politics as a career and is completely the wrong way to react to the kind of behaviour shown by Rifkind and Straw. Edited February 24, 2015 by thecrashingisles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juvenal Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) Rifkind's been forced to stand down from his Chairman role. And out as an MP as well? Edited February 24, 2015 by juvenal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveinHope Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) Being an MP is not a 'job' with a 'working day'. His only responsibility is to maintain the confidence of his consituents and to represent them in parliament. Your position just takes us in the wrong direction of treating politics as a career and is completely the wrong way to react to the kind of behaviour shown by Rifkind and Straw. Mine isn't a job either, in fact historically, it was never salaried and only carried out by the independently wealthy or those gaining patronage. But now Rifkind is paid a salary for being an MP, just like I am paid for my vocational 'job' I would have had no problem if he said I work full time as an MP, and in my spare time etc.. even if that meant £67k for just getting out of bed. Semantics maybe, but it means something in the mind of the person saying it. It perhaps reveals to us how Rifkind views his salary and position, which, appears, by all accounts to be to do pretty much what he pleases and to work for himself and his own gains whenever possible. Edited February 24, 2015 by LiveinHope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) The 75% of his time spent as an MP will likely exclude the 5 months holiday a year they get. Edited February 24, 2015 by billybong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) It perhaps reveals to us how Rifkind views his salary and position, which, appears, by all accounts to be to do pretty much what he pleases and to work for himself and his own gains whenever possible. I think you underestimate his ego. He sees himself as a very important, significant and influential person who is courted because of his high-standing and unique insight. The reason he's finished is because his pomposity has been fatally exposed, not because he thinks being an MP is a 75% occupation. Edited February 24, 2015 by thecrashingisles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveinHope Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Faisal Islam .... Sir Malcolm will also be stepping down as MP for Kensington at the General Election... Plum seat opens up for ambitious Conservative The ramifications of the Telegraph / Channel 4 sting are large Personally, I don't know yet who to believe. I mistrust politicians and media equally. Both have VI positions. However, in handling the fallout, Rifkind has appeared out of touch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveinHope Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) I think you underestimate his ego. He sees himself as a very important, significant and influential person who is courted because of his high-standing and unique insight. The reason he's finished is because his pomposity has been fatally exposed, not because he thinks being an MP is a 75% occupation. Quite so, 100% Which is what the 75% revealed. Rifkind "I do what I like" Edited February 24, 2015 by LiveinHope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Faisal Islam .... Sir Malcolm will also be stepping down as MP for Kensington at the General Election... Plum seat opens up for ambitious Conservative Perhaps Portillo could be persuaded to come back to his old seat? He could even become the surprise front runner to become leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveinHope Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) Perhaps Portillo could be persuaded to come back to his old seat? He could even become the surprise front runner to become leader. I am sure they have someone lined up Rifkind's error was seized upon by central office. Summary dismissal. Out of adversity etc etc Rifkind wasn't the indisposable grandee he thought Edited February 24, 2015 by LiveinHope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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