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John The Pessimist

Dt Anti Boomer Piece

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I managed to get a letter into the Telegraph yesterday. They abridged it horrifically, so it lost much of its point. Original version:

Horrifically abridged. Full version:

Your editorial suggesting that the 'Pensioner Bonds' are about fairness, rather than buying the Tory core vote, makes little sense. You rightly state that savers have been hit hard by deliberate low interest rates, but then casually add that 'many' savers are older. Indeed they are, but plenty are young, and desperately trying to save for a deposit for their first flat or house. With low interest rates and the deeply irresponsible and unhelpful 'Help to Buy' scheme having driven prices and rents into an unprecedented bubble, such young savers are hit on two fronts. If George Osborne is interested in 'fairness', and not cynical bribery why are these bonds not open to

all?

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Divide and rule is the answer to the article writer's opening questions.

Its nothing at all to do with divide and rule and all to do with Gidiot and Dave buying votes.

But looking at the comments you can most certainly see the mindset of the stuck up middle class of England.

Fkcen to55ers the lot of them i hope they get abused in nursing homes by angry young people who are priced out, they'll deserve it.

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Just reading the headline as embedded in the URL gives some interesting little hints:

- The thread title is wrong at least twice over. The story isn't about boomers, it is (like so many anti-'boomer' posts on HPC) about pensioners. And it's not so much anti-pensioner as anti-pork-barrel. To call it anti-pensioner is kind-of like calling Tam Dalyell anti-Scottish for posing the Westlothian question. Or calling a person of either sex who opposes Harfwit and the pink bus anti-women.

- It's in the Torygraph's "women" section. Is she looking to make this a womens issue? Before dismissing that as daft, consider it's no more stupid than the generational warfare that uses the word 'boomer' as a term of abuse.

- Why has she picked on the bus pass in particular? Of all the pensioner bribes, the one that encourages them out of cars and onto the buses is surely far-and-away the most sensible.

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- Why has she picked on the bus pass in particular? Of all the pensioner bribes, the one that encourages them out of cars and onto the buses is surely far-and-away the most sensible.

It's a good policy poorly implemented now basically.

Councils get a set rate to subsidise over 65s bus passes.

The problem in my (very heavily grey) area at least is that the government subsidy is 500K and the actual cost is 3.5M+.

It's bankrupting the council basically. They have wriggle room in a year or two (when I'm pretty sure a flat fee for elderly bus travel will have to be introduced) but at the moment their only options appear to be signing up to dodgy PFI schemes for quick equity/savings, out sourcing departments to Capita (first few years cheaper, then horrifically more expensive), or just plain closing stuff and selling it to property developers at suspiciously knocked down prices.

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Guest eight

- Why has she picked on the bus pass in particular? Of all the pensioner bribes, the one that encourages them out of cars and onto the buses is surely far-and-away the most sensible.

My wife's 72 year old aunt has just bought a brand new BMW 220i. Pointless anecdotal but it had to go somewhere, if only to enrage Si1.

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Just reading the headline as embedded in the URL gives some interesting little hints:

- The thread title is wrong at least twice over. The story isn't about boomers, it is (like so many anti-'boomer' posts on HPC) about pensioners. And it's not so much anti-pensioner as anti-pork-barrel. To call it anti-pensioner is kind-of like calling Tam Dalyell anti-Scottish for posing the Westlothian question. Or calling a person of either sex who opposes Harfwit and the pink bus anti-women.

- It's in the Torygraph's "women" section. Is she looking to make this a womens issue? Before dismissing that as daft, consider it's no more stupid than the generational warfare that uses the word 'boomer' as a term of abuse.

- Why has she picked on the bus pass in particular? Of all the pensioner bribes, the one that encourages them out of cars and onto the buses is surely far-and-away the most sensible.

Not many pensioners that drive actually use it, might not have that much impact on traffic. I know quite a few pensioners and can't actually think of one that is prepared to leave the car at home and lower themselves to bus transport.

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If there is a free bus pass when I get to 65 I would probably use the bus. If there is not I probably wont. Don't see anybody gains by having buses travelling around off peek half empty. Any scheme that fills the buses I would approve of. Perhaps they could come up with a £10 per year off peek bus pass for everybody.

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Not many pensioners that drive actually use it, might not have that much impact on traffic. I know quite a few pensioners and can't actually think of one that is prepared to leave the car at home and lower themselves to bus transport.

I meet quite a few.

Not least when I use the bus myself and get chatting, there are very often a pensioner who has left their car at home or given up having a car altogether, precisely because the bus makes more sense for them.

My dad uses his bus pass whenever he goes more than a short (and ever-shortening) walk from his house.

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If there is a free bus pass when I get to 65 I would probably use the bus. If there is not I probably wont. Don't see anybody gains by having buses travelling around off peek half empty. Any scheme that fills the buses I would approve of. Perhaps they could come up with a £10 per year off peek bus pass for everybody.

Whatever you're on, I'll have a peek at it.

Half-empty off-peak buses are necessary to make the whole system work. If you can't get a half-empty bus home at 11pm then you can't get the well-used one into town at 7pm either, and that becomes the empty one. So you have a vicious circle.

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While I agree with the overall sentiment...I cant say I disagree with the boomers saying it doesnt matter till we solve immigration.

I don't see the point in building millions more homes if they're just going to fill them with immigrants and cause a new housing shortage either.

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If there is a free bus pass when I get to 65 I would probably use the bus. If there is not I probably wont.

The pass in Greater Manchester covers off-peak bus, train and tram travel in GM. (In Greater London I'm told they get free tube too?) When did this scheme even come in? During. Yet older relatives tell me that paid their taxes for it. (Think qualifying age is 66 in England, 60 in Scotland and Wales.. but other article just read suggests over 60s in England too... ).

Greater Manchester bus passengers suffering 'worst cuts in living memory'

9 February 2015

Bus passengers in Greater Manchester are falling victim to the ‘worst cuts in living memory’, according to the council’s transport chief. More than £18m is being slashed.... “For those of us like myself who were around during the years of Thatcher cuts and thought that was horrendous - this is turning out to be a lot worse. “Unfortunately, we have reached a position where we simply can’t afford to run all the supported services we have in the past. And reviews continue. It means many half-hourly services are likely to become hourly. "Passengers are already facing changes with some services having to be terminated.” More than 100 staff have already been cut in a bid to save cash.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/greater-manchester-bus-passengers-suffering-8611015

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Bus passes are one of the biggest wastes of money that I know.

Many of the people around here that use them are wealthy and could just as easily use their cars but like to get 'something for nothing.'

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Bus passes are one of the biggest wastes of money that I know.

Many of the people around here that use them are wealthy and could just as easily use their cars but like to get 'something for nothing.'

assume you are in a big city or London where the freedom pass is worth lots

believe me it would be a struggle to get any use of a 'bus pass' where there are only one or two buses a day to the nearest small market town - and most of us are not wealthy either :(

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Bus passes are one of the biggest wastes of money that I know.

Many of the people around here that use them are wealthy and could just as easily use their cars but like to get 'something for nothing.'

But if the seat is empty anyway then it's costing nothing to give them a lift. If you want to get rid of the bus service that's all fine by me. If you are going to the expense of running a bus service the more people that use the bus the greater value it offers.

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While I agree with the overall sentiment...I cant say I disagree with the boomers saying it doesnt matter till we solve immigration.

I don't see the point in building millions more homes if they're just going to fill them with immigrants and cause a new housing shortage either.

From an HPC perspective the fatal danger of supporting the boomers on immigration is that once they've gotten rid of the damned ________ (whilst also keeping the polish plumber/hairdresser/dentist they use) they'll say there is no need to build any houses now and unless young people start voting politicians will concur.

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From an HPC perspective the fatal danger of supporting the boomers on immigration is that once they've gotten rid of the damned ________ (whilst also keeping the polish plumber/hairdresser/dentist they use) they'll say there is no need to build any houses now and unless young people start voting politicians will concur.

What keeps the house prices (for families) high is the support for the pension funds via QE, once this is stopped and we get the inevitable bond crisis then Boomers will lose their fat pensions and be forced to "sell-to-eat". Nevertheless we are sinking in a mire of economically inactive or feeble immigrants who also want cheap housing for their approximately 50-100% larger broods, so lots of things need fixing before we are permitted a life anywhere close to as easy as the Boomers had when they were starting a family.

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Not many pensioners that drive actually use it, might not have that much impact on traffic. I know quite a few pensioners and can't actually think of one that is prepared to leave the car at home and lower themselves to bus transport.

Around here (SW London) I can assure you that plenty of people with Freedom passes who still drive, will very often use public transport for preference. They do not consider that it 'lowers' them in the slightest. But then we have very good transport. Bus passes keep an awful lot of cars off the roads. However I know it is different in other areas, where there are two buses a day if you're lucky.

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Around here (SW London) I can assure you that plenty of people with Freedom passes who still drive, will very often use public transport for preference. They do not consider that it 'lowers' them in the slightest. But then we have very good transport. Bus passes keep an awful lot of cars off the roads. However I know it is different in other areas, where there are two buses a day if you're lucky.

I personally don't really see the point of having a car in London, unless you're really out in the burbs..

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assume you are in a big city or London where the freedom pass is worth lots

believe me it would be a struggle to get any use of a 'bus pass' where there are only one or two buses a day to the nearest small market town - and most of us are not wealthy either :(

Depends on attitude. Those infrequent buses do get used. For people who no longer have the demands on their time of a day's work, they can often organise a day out around whatever transport is available. If they choose not to it suggests they still have more money than time.

[edit to add] That was particularly evident when we used to have just two buses a week (Tuesday and Friday). They were well-used, and faces rapidly became familiar.

Edited by porca misèria

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