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Damik

Austerity Proved Working

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Austerity proved working; Espanol rules!!!

Left wingers proved wrong again ...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11378964/Spain-grows-by-post-crisis-record-as-falling-prices-boost-the-recovery.html

Spain - Eurozone's fourth largest economy defies deflationary threat to record its best performance since 2008

- cut in personal and corporate taxes

- GDP will rise by 2pc this year, as the effect of falling oil prices

- enacting a series of labour market reforms which seek to make the country more competitive in relation to its eurozone neighbours

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2011/aug/26/spain-constitutional-cap-deficit

2011: Spain changes constitution to cap budget deficit; agree deficit limitLimit to be set at 0.4% of GDP from 2020

Greek Parliament on Monday for restoring the 13th ‘Christmas bonus’ pension for pensioners receiving less than 700 euros per month.
Edited by Damik

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Austerity proved working; Espanol rules!!!

Left wingers proved wrong again ...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11378964/Spain-grows-by-post-crisis-record-as-falling-prices-boost-the-recovery.html

Spain - Eurozone's fourth largest economy defies deflationary threat to record its best performance since 2008

- cut in personal and corporate taxes

- GDP will rise by 2pc this year, as the effect of falling oil prices

- enacting a series of labour market reforms which seek to make the country more competitive in relation to its eurozone neighbours

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2011/aug/26/spain-constitutional-cap-deficit

2011: Spain changes constitution to cap budget deficit; agree deficit limitLimit to be set at 0.4% of GDP from 2020

Greek Parliament on Monday for restoring the 13th ‘Christmas bonus’ pension for pensioners receiving less than 700 euros per month.

So if we all stopped spending the country would recover. Brilliant.

Perhaps we could freeze everybody bank account and all sit tight and wait for the recovery to come around.

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So if we all stopped spending the country would recover. Brilliant.

Perhaps we could freeze everybody bank account and all sit tight and wait for the recovery to come around.

Are you silly in purpose? Perhaps you missed this:

2011: Spain changes constitution to cap budget deficit; agree deficit limitLimit to be set at 0.4% of GDP from 2020

The point of the Austerity is that you are very careful about your spending based on the debt and not just your earning

Edited by Damik

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Are you silly in purpose? Perhaps you missed this:

2011: Spain changes constitution to cap budget deficit; agree deficit limitLimit to be set at 0.4% of GDP from 2020

The point of the Austerity is that you are very careful about your spending based on the debt and not just your earning

Exactly.

This is the reality of economics. The EU socialist can't stomach the fact that you have to cut your cloth to suit your pocket.

Edited by Blod

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What I dont get is how if Greece has no primary deficit (presumably you could call that 'austerity working') why are its yields so high?

some thoughts

1)They've a lot of fixed rate debt issued at a bad time (easy to prove)

2) People dont believe the Greek governments accounts (not surprising)

3) People no longer expect to get their principle back!

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But haven't you simply said that Spain's upturn in fortune is just due to oil prices? Hardly an economic miracle!

Tell that to George.

And virtually the whole UK media, who appear happy to let him get away with it.

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Exactly.

This is the reality of economics. The EU socialist can't stomach the fact that you have to cut your cloth to suit your pocket.

Indeed. Last time I was accused that it is silly to have a low deficit and run the state like your household. Well Germany and Spain show the way forward ... :wub::wub::wub:

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But haven't you simply said that Spain's upturn in fortune is just due to oil prices? Hardly an economic miracle!

Almost whole EU (including Greece) is benefiting from lower oil prices. Not only Spain ...

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Eh?

Am I missing the spectacular growth in the eurozone - the one place that has actually tried austerity.

As far as I see it the UK and USA both flirted with austerity, saw it was nonsence and turned on the printing presses. They both now have growth albeit artificial and not actually benefiting the people who live there.

The eurozone went for cutbacks and shrinking of employment rights, actual paycuts etc etc. The result was no growth at all. So now they've turned on the printing presses.

How is that proof austerity works?

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As far as I see it the UK and USA both flirted with austerity, saw it was nonsence and turned on the printing presses. They both now have growth albeit artificial and not actually benefiting the people who live there.
UK deficit is about 5%
UK growth is about 2%
2% - 5% = -3%
German deficit is about 0%
German growth is about 0%
0% - 0% = 0%
Perhaps by working we both mean something else ... :lol::lol::lol: .. Perhaps you want to grow UK GDP be throwing more money at NHS or social benefits ??? Like Greeks with their Christmas pension special ...
Edited by Damik

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Eh?

Am I missing the spectacular growth in the eurozone - the one place that has actually tried austerity.

As far as I see it the UK and USA both flirted with austerity, saw it was nonsence and turned on the printing presses. They both now have growth albeit artificial and not actually benefiting the people who live there.

The eurozone went for cutbacks and shrinking of employment rights, actual paycuts etc etc. The result was no growth at all. So now they've turned on the printing presses.

How is that proof austerity works?

how many more tractors were produced?

focus on the money numbers and all you end up with is a printing based Ponzi road to anihilation.

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Exactly.

This is the reality of economics. The EU socialist can't stomach the fact that you have to cut your cloth to suit your pocket.

This is very true..... So why then are money lenders desperately trying to flog highly priced debt onto people that are not in a position to pay it back without going bankrupt..... Why are they using all the tricks in the book to enable the purchase of debt to buy overpriced rubbish and encourage consumption at any cost to them and others?

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Maybe if Spain isn't showing "growth" (the way GDP is calculated these days as demonstrated by the UK - imputed rent plus all the other stuff) they'll have to change the way it's calculated to a more responsible/accurate way.

Then it might even turn out that it is actually growing again - rather than just pretending to grow.

Edited by billybong

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This is very true..... So why then are money lenders desperately trying to flog highly priced debt onto people that are not in a position to pay it back without going bankrupt..... Why are they using all the tricks in the book to enable the purchase of debt to buy overpriced rubbish and encourage consumption at any cost to them and others?

Because the sales people bonus is based per year, but long term stability is more about 5 years outlook. This is the reason why so many businesses fail in recession. Perhaps BoE IR policy should be more aggressive to avoid economical cycles as required by the law. But then politicians would loose elections. Perhaps it is just easier for sheep (like in Greece) to vote for politicians, who are promising mirages ...

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When the same old same old is clearly not working people are more acceptable to risk radical changes....if it works why fix it....if it clearly is not working go for anything that might fix it, what is there to lose, when all is already lost?

.

Edited by winkie

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The issue in the EU isn't austerity, it's the consequences of being in the Euro. Can you imagine how packed Greece would be with tourists if their currency was where it should be? We'd have people saying how great it is that you get get a good meal for £7.50.

Austerity is fine, the State is crap at directing capital anyway so the less it does the better. The problem isn't the State doing less, it's that it holds back people from doing things for themselves.

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The issue in the EU isn't austerity, it's the consequences of being in the Euro. Can you imagine how packed Greece would be with tourists if their currency was where it should be? We'd have people saying how great it is that you get get a good meal for £7.50.

Austerity is fine, the State is crap at directing capital anyway so the less it does the better. The problem isn't the State doing less, it's that it holds back people from doing things for themselves.

Nothing to stop them dropping their prices now.

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The issue in the EU isn't austerity, it's the consequences of being in the Euro. Can you imagine how packed Greece would be with tourists if their currency was where it should be? We'd have people saying how great it is that you get get a good meal for £7.50.

Austerity is fine, the State is crap at directing capital anyway so the less it does the better. The problem isn't the State doing less, it's that it holds back people from doing things for themselves.

Hmm. So you are suggesting that instead of having solid stable currency and transparently cutting (prices) of assets, goods, services, wages, pensions and national budget spending.

We should rather go for an irresponsible crazy spending and have a toilet paper currency (Lira, Drachna) which devaluates every year 20%. But citizens are happy as they are all earning over 1,000,000 Liras pa ...

And this is a summary what si wrong with your idea ...

Edited by Damik

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Inflation is -1.5%

GDP stat can show "growth" but at less than 1.5% it is still declining in nominal terms. i.e. If inflation were 0% for example, GDP would show continuing decline. This is the problem with concluding all is well based on two rather manipulated 'statistics'.

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Not if you can sell your tomatoes and cucumbers for euros instead of drachma.

This is a bit silly. You are aware that all Chinese and none EU goods, oil/petrol/gas and gold are sold for $. And not for Drachma/Euro ...

And it is not crushing Greek economy. The Greek economy is crushed by crazy government spending such as better pensions and larger civic sector than in the Central and Eastern Europe.

Edited by Damik

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Inflation is -1.5%

GDP stat can show "growth" but at less than 1.5% it is still declining in nominal terms. i.e. If inflation were 0% for example, GDP would show continuing decline. This is the problem with concluding all is well based on two rather manipulated 'statistics'.

A few problems with the current CPI/RPI inflation measurement:

- it includes luxury and not essential goods

- it is effected by external factors such as oil

- it ignores wage inflation

- it excludes housing

- it excludes stock market prices

If the CPI/RPi is measured as required BoE would be required to increase IRs about 2003 and kill the 2007 and 2014 HPC crashes ... :(

Edited by Damik

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This is a bit silly. You are aware that all Chinese and none EU goods, oil/petrol/gas and gold are sold for $. And not for Drachma/Euro ...

And it is not crushing Greek economy. The Greek economy is crushed by crazy government spending such as better pensions and larger civic sector than in the Central and Eastern Europe.

You must be autistic to take it all so literally.

Greece is plugged into the EU trading zone and more, 1st world logistical infrastructure to deliver their produce for instance. Euros, dollars, drachma, shekels, doesn't matter. Locals and tourists pay European prices not Greek prices.

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