Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
Sign in to follow this  
wonderpup

Greece- Not A Morality Tale But A Tale Of Immorality.

Recommended Posts

(mostly) German spokesmen promote a view of the Greeks current problems as a simple morality tale in which profligate grasshoppers were rescued by hard working ants.

Appealing as this narrative is the truth is less so;

What has happened to Greece since then is a moral scandal. Leaked documents from the IMF Board confirm that country needed debt relief at the outset. This was blocked by the EU for fear that it would set off contagion at a time when the eurozone - negligently - did not have a lender-of-last resort. Greece was sacrificed to buy time for the euro.

The EU-IMF Troika forced a bankrupt country to take on further loan packages, allowing foreign banks to dump their bonds onto Greek taxpayers and trap Greek citizens in debt servitude. To add insult to injury, this was called a rescue.

The IMF minutes for May 2010 said Troika loans “may be seen not as a rescue of Greece, which will have to undergo a wrenching adjustment, but as a bailout of Greece’s private debt holders”.

Greece suffered IMF austerity without the usual IMF cure of devaluation and debt relief. It has every right to demand redress.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11376031/Investors-have-woken-up-to-Greeces-nuclear-risk.html

Whatever good intentions there were behind the creation of the EU it has now become as undemocratic and degenerate an institution as the worst banana republics- led by an unelected cabal of power hungry apparatchiks who clearly have nothing but contempt for those they seek to rule over.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The EU-IMF Troika forced a bankrupt country to take on further loan packages,

That bit doesn't sound that much different to the situation when Greece first applied to join the eu. It probably wasn't "bankrupt" then but not as strong as it appeared on the surface - then there was all the off balance sheet stuff helped by the squid(s).

It's difficult to believe the likes of the IMF/eu weren't aware then of the basic situation.

That's not to say,of course, that Greece is blameless.

Edited by billybong

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"This is the grandest THEFT of all time." So true.

Yet you try suggesting to the man in the street that the banks should not have been bailed out.

People really believe Gordon Brown "saved the world".

People are stupid. What can we do?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Note: this is NOT just Greece. This is a feature of ALL 'bailouts' organised at Brown's ill fated world conference.

ALL such bank bailouts were of this nature...they were NOT rescuing us. They were rescuing the private debt holders by ladelling the debts on our heads for evermore.

This is the grandest THEFT of all time.

Now, away from the heat of the moment we have gone back to 'bailins' as though it some sort of innovation. Certainly France and Germany made sure their banks were safe first before changing tack after Greece/Spain/Ireland.

Private debt holders such as people with pensions and modest savings? Not to mention the effects from loss of confidence in the system.

At least you didn't say it was the banks money.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

talk on the Politics show that the EU is stuck...if it bails out Greece, then why not Spain, Portugal and Italy?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't the point of a currency union that money flows are not always consistent and even. The article on the BBC website this morning "Eurozone needs to share risks warns bank governor" makes the point.

Apply the same circumstances to the UK, should we be concerned about the profligacy of Wales, or Northampton, Stoke, or any other large town or area?

Should Londoners be concerned that their taxes are being spent to support other regions of the country?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Private debt holders such as people with pensions and modest savings? Not to mention the effects from loss of confidence in the system.

At least you didn't say it was the banks money.....

How to explain why the people of Greece must be turned into debt slaves to bail out these banking institutions when all along the ECB could simply print a Trillion Euros?

For the same reason a chicken must be sacrificed for an incantation to work- blood sacrifice was required to maintain the illusion that something real was going on,when all along there was nothing real happening except an entire nation was being trashed to support an abstraction called 'The Euro'.

It's sickening and pathetic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(mostly) German spokesmen promote a view of the Greeks current problems as a simple morality tale in which profligate grasshoppers were rescued by hard working ants.

Appealing as this narrative is the truth is less so;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11376031/Investors-have-woken-up-to-Greeces-nuclear-risk.html

Whatever good intentions there were behind the creation of the EU it has now become as undemocratic and degenerate an institution as the worst banana republics- led by an unelected cabal of power hungry apparatchiks who clearly have nothing but contempt for those they seek to rule over.

If Euro membership was treated like a PPP policy the Greeks would have a sound case for suing Germany, Belgium and France for compensation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When most of this debt was created...it was already known Greece lied to get into the EZ. (Courtesy of Goldman sachs accountants, wasnt it?)

If you loan money to someone you know has no problem engaging in fraud, why would you expect it back.

Thats my view from a moral/theoretical point of view.

From a practical POV the Germans and ECB are plain idiots for investing in debt in a country with a worse/ageing demographic than much of Northern europe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Greece’s government will not cooperate with the EU and IMF mission bankrolling the country and will not seek an extension to the bailout programme, its finance minister said on Friday. Varoufakis said he had assured Dijsselbloem that Athens planned to implement reforms to make the economy more competitive and have balanced budgets but that it would not accept a “self-fed crisis” of deflation and non-viable debt.

In turn, Dijsselbloem said he had told the new government to respect the terms of the existing agreement between Greece and the eurozone and warned against taking unilateral steps, saying it was important not to reverse progress made so far.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/blog/live/2015/jan/30/greece-awaits-meeting-with-eurozone-finance-chief-live-updates

Edited by rollover

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Greece’s government will not cooperate with the EU and IMF mission bankrolling the country and will not seek an extension to the bailout programme, its finance minister said on Friday. Varoufakis said he had assured Dijsselbloem that Athens planned to implement reforms to make the economy more competitive and have balanced budgets but that it would not accept a “self-fed crisis” of deflation and non-viable debt.

In turn, Dijsselbloem said he had told the new government to respect the terms of the existing agreement between Greece and the eurozone and warned against taking unilateral steps, saying it was important not to reverse progress made so far.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/blog/live/2015/jan/30/greece-awaits-meeting-with-eurozone-finance-chief-live-updates

The EU*****ers just conjured best part of a trillion out of their ****, why should anybody go through any pain whatsoever if money is created like that and why should it incur further debt interest payments at all?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also have no sympathy for Germany and lots of sympathy for Greece.

Plentiful credit inflates prices of everything making borrowing a certainty. To then bail them out by loading on more debt is just criminal. To me a bailout is some of the debt being written off.

A currency union with such imbalances cannot last, either the Euro zone becomes one massive country with one budget or eventually it is doomed to fail.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A currency union with such imbalances cannot last, either the Euro zone becomes one massive country with one budget or eventually it is doomed to fail.

no, that was the whole point of the greek exit.

the plans WERE for the EU to be one massive country with one budget,one universal canon law, one supreme pontiff directing matters political,economical and ecclesiastical., with schismatics ecenomically beaten into submission.

.

greece has just said feck off, we're siding with the russians and if you touch us again they will nuke you into the stone age(hardly surprising as the orthodox are deeply suspicious of the catholic "universal mother church and anybody who disagrees is a heretic" line.

next is the irish and the brits, we're going across the pond boys and girls.

the only way europe survives now is to split from north to south, with the northern and scandinavians leaving the southerners behind, and being very,very much less intrusive and expansionist in it's policies.

a kind of counter-counter reformation if you will.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also have no sympathy for Germany and lots of sympathy for Greece.

Plentiful credit inflates prices of everything making borrowing a certainty. To then bail them out by loading on more debt is just criminal. To me a bailout is some of the debt being written off.

its not just bailing out by debt though is it,

it is industrial espionage also, ransacking the industries in those that COULD generate the means to pay back the debt too.

ie greeks too heavily reliant on tourism now, ourselves with industry decimated and reliant mostly on financial services.

a message to our elites with regard to our financial services:

when this gets nasty, just how do you intend to defend it?

you scrapped our navy,army,airforce

you sold off our manufacturers

you told everybody that carrying a pair of scissors was punishable by jail.

YOU LOSE...BIGTIME.

don't for one minute think you'll be safe in those bunkers.you were stooges, useful idiots.

once the rest of the country has fallen, they are coming for you too....if the people you screwed over don't get you first,

Edited by oracle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • The Prime Minister stated that there were three Brexit options available to the UK:   206 members have voted

    1. 1. Which of the Prime Minister's options would you choose?


      • Leave with the negotiated deal
      • Remain
      • Leave with no deal

    Please sign in or register to vote in this poll. View topic


×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.