Left Wing Anti-Semitism / Guardian

[Guest TheBlueCat]

There's an article running on the Grauniad right now about Marueen Lipman's comments on maybe leaving the UK (I bet she won't by the way): http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/28/maureen-lipman-rise-antisemitic-attacks-leave-uk

I posted a pretty mild comment saying that I thought it was sad how many on the left had slipped into either supporting people with anti-semitic views (e.g. Ken Livingstone inviting Yusuf al-Qaradawi to campaign for him) or, occasionally, expressing such views themselves. There were (and are) comments on the article making much more direct comments in the opposite direction. Interestingly my comment was removed by a moderator. Kind of proves my point I guess.

[SNACR]

Seems to be a media agenda to instil the idea British Jews are living in fear/under threat, which I'm not at all convinced about or why some terrorist attack in Paris inexorably leads to that conclusion.

Also think anti-semitism should be dropped as a term and it should just be called what it is and that's racism.

[Bossybabe]

Seems to be a media agenda to instil the idea British Jews are living in fear/under threat, which I'm not at all convinced about or why some terrorist attack in Paris inexorably leads to that conclusion.

Also think anti-semitism should be dropped as a term and it should just be called what it is and that's racism.

Are the Jews a race? Or followers of a particular religion?

[Guest TheBlueCat]

Humans are not good at dealing with low probability but high impact events.

Are the Jews a race? Or followers of a particular religion?

Some of both tending strongly to the race side:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_of_Jewish_origins

If there wasn't a strong racial element there would be no need for this organisation for example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dor_Yeshorim

[Eddie_George]

She doesn't like Ed Miliband either:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband/11196959/Maureen-Lipman-abandons-Ed-Miliband-over-Israel.html

Perhaps she has a mansion

[Guest_northshore_*]

BBC More or Less: Is Anti-Semitism Widespread in the UK

[MrPin]

She doesn't like Ed Miliband either:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband/11196959/Maureen-Lipman-abandons-Ed-Miliband-over-Israel.html

Perhaps she has a mansion

Who does?

[MrPin]

Seems to be a media agenda to instil the idea British Jews are living in fear/under threat, which I'm not at all convinced about or why some terrorist attack in Paris inexorably leads to that conclusion.

Also think anti-semitism should be dropped as a term and it should just be called what it is and that's racism.

There are as many left-wing racists, as there are right-wing ones! The pamphlet is different! That is all!

[erat_forte]

People also often deliberately conflate anti-Jewish racism with anti-Zionism.

But yes I don't understand the term 'anti-semitism' - aren't Muslim arabs also semites?

[whitevanman]

Marxism has had a strong element of antisemitism from the beginning. Marx himself was an antisemite despite his Jewish ancestry. Plenty of Marxist Jews have been consumed by the ongoing revolution in the USSR.

It's not just antisemitism though, the left seeks to destroy anything which threatens its dominance. That means demoralising traditional institutions of the family, nation and ethnicity. When the Ukraine resisted the communist revolution in favour of their own nation, the population was deliberately and systematically starved into submission. Seven million died in one year and ethnic Russians were shipped in to further demoralise the Ukrainian nation. There scars are still sore today.

Leftists are genocidal maniacs.

[libspero]

People also often deliberately conflate anti-Jewish racism with anti-Zionism.

But yes I don't understand the term 'anti-semitism' - aren't Muslim arabs also semites?

Yes.. Semitism is related to language not a religious group.

"The word "Semite" may be used to refer to any member of any of a number of peoples of ancient Middle East including the Akkadians, Assyrians, Arameans, Phoenicians, Hebrews (Jews), Arabs, and their descendants."

So in fact you could detest Jewish people and not necessarily be an anti-Semite.

[MrPin]

People also often deliberately conflate anti-Jewish racism with anti-Zionism.

But yes I don't understand the term 'anti-semitism' - aren't Muslim arabs also semites?

Yes! they are all the backward writing big nosers!

[StuG III]

Marxism has had a strong element of antisemitism from the beginning. Marx himself was an antisemite despite his Jewish ancestry. Plenty of Marxist Jews have been consumed by the ongoing revolution in the USSR.

It's not just antisemitism though, the left seeks to destroy anything which threatens its dominance. That means demoralising traditional institutions of the family, nation and ethnicity. When the Ukraine resisted the communist revolution in favour of their own nation, the population was deliberately and systematically starved into submission. Seven million died in one year and ethnic Russians were shipped in to further demoralise the Ukrainian nation. There scars are still sore today.

Leftists are genocidal maniacs.

Strange, I can think of at least one genocidal maniac who thought Marxism was a Jewish conspiracy.....

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

<SNIP> I thought it was sad how many on the left had slipped into either supporting people with anti-semitic views (e.g. Ken Livingstone inviting Yusuf al-Qaradawi to campaign for him) or, occasionally, expressing such views themselves. </SNIP>

Anti-semitism was always a left wing phenomenon - at the risk of proving Godwin's law, didn't NAZI mean national socialist

The main confusion seems to occur because some on the fringe of the right go so far that they loop round and their views end up converging with the left.

To me the right means liberal values both socially and economically.

The left on the other hand is statist and statism is only a yard from fascism.

[The Masked Tulip]

Are the Jews a race? Or followers of a particular religion?

Technically they are both. They are a race as you can only pass Judasim down through the female line. Hence why Jewish women are often so keen to marry other Jews.

Re The Guardian - you have no idea what the background is of the person who removed the comment. I feel that there is a very anti Jewish mentality in many parts of the Media - in fact, arguably anti Jewish, anti Christian - by those who seem to think it is trendy to be pro Islam and anti the other two.

Some might argue that sizeable parts of the UK Media, and indeed some government departments, have been hijacked by peope with such an agenda. The UK is rotting from the inside out IMPO. I feel this is very much like the 1930s again.

I will give you an example of Wales - in the early 1980s some friends of mine in TV News crews reported on Welsh Nats throwing paint at the Welsh Office in Cardiff demanding more rights for the Welsh language. One of those people in the crew made the remark that one day we would all be working for the Welsh Nats.

30 or so years later and the Welsh language lot, although a tiny minority of Welsh people, now run Wales because they got themselves into all the important jobs - the BBC, their own Channel in S4C, in various govt depts, the Welsh NHS and, of course, the Assembly.

They make policy heavily in favour of the Welsh language. Most middle and senior public sector jobs require that you speak Welsh. No one challenges them. The Welsh Media does not - it took the Daily Mail recently to highlight how terrible the Welsh NHS is - because the Welsh Media is dominated by them. Welsh children are being edcuated in a language they do not understand for feck's sake.

So you end up with more and more people in Wales living in poverty but a very small clique of Welsh speakers are doing very, very well financially out of Wales. They are in control and nothing can now be done to stop them. I remember, some years ago, two English-speaking Welsh broadcasters warning that this would happen and it has.

Now change Wales for the UK. Change Welsh speakers for anti Jewish/anti-Christian and pro-Islam.

I want people to be able to live in freedom and peace tolerant of others... but I fear that the intolerant are using our tolerance to destroy our way of life.

You post a sensible comment on a newspaper website and someone 'hidden' - unknown - removes it because it makes an observation that does not fit the agenda. No one cares other than you because it is only one comment. But how many other such comments are removed. Individually the authors might just think that it theirs. Collectively how many? Bit by bit the voices of reason are removed.

I have seen it happen in Wales. I am seeing it happen now in the UK regarding Islam. I am reminded of how the Nazis used the Media to alienate the Jews, the disabled, the homosexuals, etc, etc.

[ProleStore]

Let me just correct that for you...

Anti-semitism was always a left wing phenomenon - at the risk of proving Godwin's law, didn't NAZI mean national socialist

The main confusion seems to occur because some on the fringe of the right go so far that they loop round and their views end up converging with the left.

To me the right means liberal values both socially and economically.

The left on the other hand is statist and statism is only a yard from fascism.

[libspero]

Re The Guardian - you have no idea what the background is of the person who removed the comment. I feel that there is a very anti Jewish mentality in many parts of the Media - in fact, arguably anti Jewish, anti Christian - by those who seem to think it is trendy to be pro Islam and anti the other two.

Some might argue that sizeable parts of the UK Media, and indeed some government departments, have been hijacked by peope with such an agenda. The UK is rotting from the inside out IMPO. I feel this is very much like the 1930s again.

I don't think I've ever detected any anti-Jewish sentiment in the media.. If anything probably the opposite.

Just look at the illegal settlement program by the Israelis. If Russia nicks their neighbours land we launch economic warfare, when Israel do it there seems to be that reluctance to confront them.

But I would argue that the media in general are far too sympathetic to all religions.. It's hard to believe in the 21st century that anyone really still believes in sky fairies. If people do that's fine, but defining anything in society by what type of sky fairies you believe in should be confined to the realms of children's novels.

[The Masked Tulip]

So is Anti Semitism absolutely unique in that respect?

Can anyone think of another group/minority that has it's own special word for what you're being when they don't like what you say?

P

Homophobic? Misogynist? Islamophobic? So gay people, feminists and muslims just off the top of my head. There are bound to be more.

[John51]

Yes.. Semitism is related to language not a religious group.

"The word "Semite" may be used to refer to any member of any of a number of peoples of ancient Middle East including the Akkadians, Assyrians, Arameans, Phoenicians, Hebrews (Jews), Arabs, and their descendants."

So in fact you could detest Jewish people and not necessarily be an anti-Semite.

Pulled from google:

*The name Semite comes from Shem, the eldest of the three sons of Noah. In the Greek and Latin versions of the Bible, Shem becomes Sem, since neither Greek nor Latin has any way of representing the initial sound of the Hebrew name.*

Get it into peoples head that 'Semite' only refers to Jews and many millions of the descendants of Sem are no longer considered to have the same ancestry as Jews. Clever.

[debtlessmanc]

I don't think I've ever detected any anti-Jewish sentiment in the media.. If anything probably the opposite.

Just look at the illegal settlement program by the Israelis. If Russia nicks their neighbours land we launch economic warfare, when Israel do it there seems to be that reluctance to confront them.

But I would argue that the media in general are far too sympathetic to all religions.. It's hard to believe in the 21st century that anyone really still believes in sky fairies. If people do that's fine, but defining anything in society by what type of sky fairies you believe in should be confined to the realms of children's novels.

Indeed, we could start from banning religious organisations from charity status, what kind of charity is one that only helps the poor if they believe one set of nonsense over another

wrt israel i have pointed out before that there are plenty of similar territorial situations around the world. e.g. konigsberg, for 1000 years german and stolen by russia at the end of the war. Where are the refugee camps and huge marches supporting those who lost their ancestral lands there? the arab obsession with israel is a useful diversion for arab leaders such as the saudis, who also find their bombs useful when a neighbour threatens to make an atom bomb.

is their anti jewish bias in the media - I think there is increasingly, but the jewish lobby historically has been very good at the opposite..

[Guest TheBlueCat]

anti-Semitism (n.) also antisemitism, 1881, from German Antisemitismus, first used by Wilhelm Marr (1819-1904) German radical, nationalist and race-agitator, who founded the Antisemiten-Liga in 1879; see anti- + Semite.

Not etymologically restricted to anti-Jewish theories, actions, or policies, but almost always used in this sense. Those who object to the inaccuracy of the term might try Hermann Adler's Judaeophobia (1882). Anti-Semitic (also antisemitic) and anti-Semite (also antisemite) also are from 1881, like anti-Semitism they appear first in English in an article in the "Athenaeum" of Sept. 31, in reference to German literature.

[spyguy]

Race or really interbred?

[MrPin]

Semites includes Arabs too! Except when nobody is supposed to know that.

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

Let me just correct that for you...

Anti-semitism was always a left wing phenomenon - at the risk of proving Godwin's law, didn't NAZI mean national socialist

The main confusion seems to occur because some on the fringe of the right go so far that they loop round and their views end up converging with the left.

To me the right means liberal values both socially and economically.

The left on the other hand is statist and statism is only a yard from fascism.

I think some will see your response as proof of the fact!

Also interesting not to see many free marketeers and social liberals in this list . To a fig most are communist, or national socialist with perhaps the odd deluded king or emperor god surrounded by manipulative henchmen. Ok - so some smart **** has included Richard Nixon and LBJ, but that approach implies we should also be adding some more recent labour politicians near the bottom of league table.