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beenhearingthisforyears

Ways To Still Invest In Property "indirectly" Within Sipps

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What seems to be hardly ever mentioned on this forum is the way a good FA or accountant can get people out of a tight corner as this article shows with the SIPPS situation.

Not of any relevance to me as i dont hold those kind of funds, but IT is possible to still invest indirectly and i suppose investors who have already commited to purchase/ put down a large deposit will need a way around the situation.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4504200.stm

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What seems to be hardly ever mentioned on this forum is the way a good FA or accountant can get people out of a tight corner as this article shows with the SIPPS situation.

Not of any relevance to me as i dont hold those kind of funds, but IT is possible to still invest indirectly and i suppose investors who have already commited to purchase/ put down a large deposit will need a way around the situation.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4504200.stm

Yeah, right. Hmm.

I'm beginning to wonder about you. You claim to be neutral, yet look at your name. All of your points are bullish. Now you tell us we have never discussed REITs. I don't know whether to do the search for you, tell you to do the search yourself, or just say awooga....

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Yeah, right. Hmm.

I'm beginning to wonder about you. You claim to be neutral, yet look at your name. All of your points are bullish. Now you tell us we have never discussed REITs. I don't know whether to do the search for you, tell you to do the search yourself, or just say awooga....

I said "hardly" not NEVER. my name comes from living in London and hearing about the prospects of a crash for at least 5 yrs.

There are many gloating posts on this site regarding sipps , and i am saying do not worry about the big investors - whom seem to be pathologically hated on this forum - they will do ok........

i am not an investor so it does not effect me.

and my opinion has always been the same - i do not see a Uk wide 50% crash as many believe on these boards. i do see how certain areas could take fall. but SOME central london and cambrideshire areas where i live/have lived are IMO still areas that can hold firm.

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Guest Time 2 raise Interest Rates

Obviously all the SIPPS debate has more or less been dealt

with here, but I thought I'd post this interesting article in last

night's edition of the London Standard.

Homes investors lose out in pensions U-turn

by Mira Bar-Hillel

Thousands of London investors could lose millions after the Chancellor

decided to exclude residential property from personal pensions.

Experts have estimated that as many as 5,000 London flats have been

sold off-plan to private investors on the expectation that up to 40 per

cent of the sale price would be rebated.

Developers, mortgage providers and estate agents have all been

promoting the idea that from 6 April - or "A-Day" - residential property

could be included in self-invested personal pensions (Sipps), with up to

40 per cent tax relief. The buyers would have put down deposits between

£1,500 and £30,000. They expected to complete the purchase after April

to benefit from the anticipated tax relief.

However, the Chancellor was warned that the move would inflate the

market and put small flats out of reach for first-time buyers - negating his

initiatives to make homes more affordable. Instead, Mr Brown has referred

to the inclusion of homes in Sipps as "misuse". Along with items such as

classic cars and fine wines, investment homes have been listed as

"prohibited assets" under the scheme, attracting penalties that would wipe

out any tax benefits.

The "U-turn" will create a crisis for investors in the process of buying

properties to include in Sipps. If they decide not to proceed, they will lose

non-refundable reservation deposits, which average £1,500. If contracts

have been exchanged buyers could lose the 10 per cent deposits payable

at that stage.

Those who reserved investment flats through so-called "discount clubs",

some of which have recently been shut for mis-selling, could lose much

more.

Investors who consider selling the flats on are also in for a shock. Experts

are predicting that the debacle will undermine a market which is already at

crisis point because of over-supply.

Alastair Stewart, of investment bank Dresdner Kleinwort Wasserstein, said:

"The market for two bed flats has been distorted by the supposed advent of

Sipps and dubious property investment clubs."

Mark Garner, commercial director of the National Landlords Association,

who has spent £500 setting up a Sipp, said: "Many people like myself have

already spent a lot of time and money preparing for the A-Day changes."

Keith Boniface, the managing director of Sipps advisory fund SIPPS2006,

said many of his clients may now have to sell their properties out of Sipps.

"I'm not happy, but how do you sue the Government?"

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I said "hardly" not NEVER. my name comes from living in London and hearing about the prospects of a crash for at least 5 yrs.

There are many gloating posts on this site regarding sipps , and i am saying do not worry about the big investors - whom seem to be pathologically hated on this forum - they will do ok........

i am not an investor so it does not effect me.

and my opinion has always been the same - i do not see a Uk wide 50% crash as many believe on these boards. i do see how certain areas could take fall. but SOME central london and cambrideshire areas where i live/have lived are IMO still areas that can hold firm.

Are you old enough to have lived through the last crash - you seem "clueless" to me? :huh:

cambs_1980_s2.gif

cambs_1980_s1.gif

Cambridgeshire prices NEVER go DOWN??

It's different this time! :unsure::blink::blink:

When I bought in 1993 - prices had reverted to the same level as 1984/5!!!

post-1240-1134046570_thumb.jpg

post-1240-1134046621_thumb.jpg

Edited by erranta

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Right. Name them. Put up or shut up.

Really bored today so i do have time to just find these guys who at some stage expressed an opinion of a large crash :

London-loser

Jun 6 2005, 03:48 PM

"Incidentally, I think a 50% correction in REAL terms is entirely possible. Time will tell how much of this will be accounted for by inflation/income growth."

"And yet those 'huge' falls of 50% bring us back to 1999. Which was 4 years AFTER the boom started here in London. By 1999, house prices had near doubled from 1995 valuations. So you still think 50% is unreasonable?"

posted by

Nomadd Jun 6 2005, 04:20 PM

and could i ask you to respect the fact that lots bearish misleading posts get put on this board and they are hardly ever challenged. e.g the one the other day re: "clothing spend more in Summer than in Winter" it was a jokey thread and the guy who posted was laughing about it as he knew/admitted he got it wrong. I do not demand people SHUT up just b/c i do not agree with them......but the bears on here are much easier on other bears even when they talk bearsh&t.

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beenhearingthisforyears

You talk rubbish or bull****. How old are you ?

My experience as a 54 year oldie I have watched a labour government

and then a conservative government mess up this country.

Boom is always followed by a bust. New labour has created a credit

boom to fuel taxes to expand the public sector at a dangerous rate.

However thing like inflation are taking hold. But the best thing is there

is a slow down in public spending. No more idiots jobs being created.

Are you a civil servant/public sector worker ?

Sounds like you read the sc** maybe an economics book might help.

Bigger the boom the bigger the bust or like Labour did in 1976 the

PM might have to get a blank cheque to bail the UK out of debt.

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Are you old enough to have lived through the last crash - you seem "clueless" to me? :huh:

cambs_1980_s2.gif

cambs_1980_s1.gif

Cambridgeshire prices NEVER go DOWN??

It's different this time! :unsure::blink::blink:

When I bought in 1993 - prices had reverted to the same level as 1984/5!!!

hold the insults mate b/c i i NEVER mentioned prices can never go down, and i am talking about certain areas that are doing ok for now in zone 1 london where i own/live and fens/cambs areas that i know about b/c i was there last week looking at property. They are the only AREAS I HAVE EVER COMMENTED ON. But i am not "clueless" enough to believe things can not change at drop of a hat. If there was another huge terror attack in London - as i have stated before - i feel some people in london will be looking to get out and that could bring everything crashing down. My "debate" is regarding prices halving in CERTAIN areas. i do not agree they will. that does not make me clueless.

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In today's ‘economic climate’ 50% looks impossible. (The last crash I lost 40%.)

In tomorrows ‘economic climate’ anything is possible.

I personally don’t want ‘economic Armageddon’ I have children and want a future for them.

I would settle for a correction not a crash. But the worrying thing is it’s out of control.

Politicians couldn’t stop it going up and they can’t stop it coming down.

You can put me on that list of possible 50% down bearsh!tters.

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Really bored today so i do have time to just find these guys who at some stage expressed an opinion of a large crash :

WOW!, 2 to start with, out of 3,226 registered members.

I suppose you could also add these two pundits on the Home Page.

David Pannell

Jim Mellon

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Amazing isn't it. House prices can go up 300% in 10 years, but not come down 50% at all!!!!!

this FORUMi s a joke. why has no-one commented on the subject i raised but just tried to cut and paste my quotes to make themselves look "big" infront of the other bears. it is PATHETIC!!!

I was challenged to name SOME posters who feel there will be a 50% crash. i did that. (I havent time to find loads) as i supposed to be working.......

I also defended myself from a charge. I DO NOT dispute parts of Uk could fall i DO despute that it will be at the same pace and at same rate. Just as with the hike: london lead, North Uk followed. A crash could easily happen in Liverpool as keeps being mentioned on here. I DO NOT KNOW, HAVE never said i do know about those areas. I commented on areas i do know. Have i entered a cult where you have to agree exactly word for word with the majority; or are we in a democracy where you are allowed to have OPINION?? and that is all it is. If economist are confused about the future do we really have all the answers??? Who predicted Browns U turn on SIPPS???? Anything can and probably will happen.

Edited by beenhearingthisforyears

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Guest Fiddlesticks

Dear god in heaven! This thread has become a vaguely ludicrous attempt to discredit and attack someone for posting something entirely innocuous by a tax accountant on the BBC website which happens not to fit the orthodoxy!

First it's his name that gets laid into, then it's his recollection of predictions made here (which he substantiated, and which then gets conveniently forgotten) then the indignant posting of graphs to rubbish something which he never said!

Can't we just play nicely? Perhaps what Penny Bates says is rubbish, I'd be interested to know about that, and it might further our understanding of the market (especially mine).

Love to all,

Fiddlesticks

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i do not see a Uk wide 50% crash as many believe on these boards.

Really bored today so i do have time to just find these guys who at some stage expressed an opinion of a large crash :

London-loser

....

Nomadd

That's 2.

I therefore conclude, in the 'beenhearingthisforyears' school of maths:

2 or more = many

I'll make a mental note of that for future reference. Meanwhile, must leave to have lunch with a girlie friend of mine - she has many breasts you know!

Edited by Sledgehead

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This guy has had a hard time from the moment he forst posted - as have I.

I am sick of the way the bears are allowed to get away with massive U turms (eg SIPPS) and yet attack any Bull.

I am constantly challenged & called a liar - until I post a direct link to a property for sale or rent. Then no-one replies and a few days later you get the same challenge.

I am irritaed at being classed a Troll - but at least objective lurkers can see how biased the site is by reading the responses.

I am really annoyed that I can't enter any polls - makes them a bit meaningless without any bulls.

I can't give any more real examples of my own experiences because all I get is accusations of bragging.

But - I'm grown up - and I can live with it.

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I am really annoyed that I can't enter any polls - makes them a bit meaningless without any bulls.

...

But - I'm grown up - and I can live with it.

... and you can also go cry on your friends shoulders. You remember surely? That friend Paranoid and whatever other multiple IDs you had - and you wonder why you aren't allowed on polls! :lol:

When they invent the poll that says what percentage of your multiple IDs think xyz, I dare say you'll get your voting rights back! :lol:

Edited by Sledgehead

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"i do not see a Uk wide 50% crash"

"SOME central london and cambrideshire areas where i live/have lived are IMO still areas that can hold firm"

I have replied politely with graphs(to illustrate Cambs area) as a major housing correction is increasingly likely imminent - all over the UK!

If you see my reply as a 'threat' to your ramblings - tough!

P.M. Charlie and ask to be put in the Members-Troll

And stop yer bleedin WHINING!!

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This guy has had a hard time from the moment he forst posted - as have I.

I am sick of the way the bears are allowed to get away with massive U turms (eg SIPPS) and yet attack any Bull.

I am constantly challenged & called a liar - until I post a direct link to a property for sale or rent. Then no-one replies and a few days later you get the same challenge.

I am irritaed at being classed a Troll - but at least objective lurkers can see how biased the site is by reading the responses.

I am really annoyed that I can't enter any polls - makes them a bit meaningless without any bulls.

I can't give any more real examples of my own experiences because all I get is accusations of bragging.

But - I'm grown up - and I can live with it.

Yep I have to say I agree - there is no concrete evidence of a crash yet. However anyone that suggests otherwise is just given a load of vitriol. There is certainly loads of circumstancial evidence that debt and a very wobbly economic climate coupled with rising interest rates around the globe could lead to a significant fall in property prices. But it aint happening yet.

In the meantime let people have their say.

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Dear god in heaven! This thread has become a vaguely ludicrous attempt to discredit and attack someone for posting something entirely innocuous by a tax accountant on the BBC website which happens not to fit the orthodoxy!

Perhaps what Penny Bates says is rubbish, I'd be interested to know about that, and it might further our understanding of the market (especially mine).

Love to all,

Fiddlesticks

The suggestion was that REITs had been glossed over on the site. In actuality this site is way ahead when it comes to discussing housing market related issues.

REITs have been discussed and you are free to search for the discussion and make your contribution. If you really want to add to the accumulated knowledge of the site, why don't you and beenrampingitforyears do just that ?

Edited by Sledgehead

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Can't we just play nicely?

Well here`s your little attack on the Mods which you got in very quick, with a stress on the AND. Yes we know you soon backtracked. It`s strange how many with your views soon begin to attack the Moderators on this Forum.

Yes lets all play nicely.

Ahhh, moved AND renamed! That should stop anyone stumbling across it. I certainly can't find it!

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... and you can also go cry on your friends shoulders. You remember surely? That friend Paranoid and whatever other multiple IDs you had - and you wonder why you aren't allowed on polls! :lol:

When they invent the poll that says what percentage of your multiple IDs think xyz, I dare say you'll get your voting rights back! :lol:

You know - you were one of the ones who got me trolled in the first place - and you apologised and I accepted.

I have NOT posted as anyone else sice that time when I created 2 aliases (Paranoid & Happy Homeowner) to flag up the fact that once Trolled - you could NO LONGER POST. I have freely admitted that I had 2 aliases - end of story.

WHY oh WHY do you persist with this spiteful accusation?

No I won't get my voting rights back - not unless I get De-trolled.

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I have replied politely with graphs(to illustrate Cambs area) as a major housing correction is increasingly likely imminent - all over the UK!

If you see my reply as a 'threat' to your ramblings - tough!

P.M. Charlie and ask to be put in the Members-Troll

And stop yer bleedin WHINING!!

Deal do you really think i care what a few school girl bully types think of me???? Others have posted and can see how my quotes have been twisted to fit your agenda.

You are making yourself look foolish..but hey carry on..........b/c i take no notice of people i have NO repsect for b/c they show no repsect for others. And dont threaten me!!!

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Guest Fiddlesticks

The suggestion was that REITs had been glossed over on the site. In actuality this site is way ahead when it comes to discussing housing market related issues.

REITs have been discussed and you are free to search for the discussion and make your contribution. If you really want to add to the accumulated knowledge of the site, why don't you and beenrampingitforyears do just that ?

Ahhhh, thank you for a grown-up response! Unfortunately what I know about REITs could fit on a stamp. Guess I'll just have to rely on the search engine then ...

F

xx

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Yep I have to say I agree - there is no concrete evidence of a crash yet. .

I think I can speak for most here when I say that we really aren't interested in knowing that a crash HAS happened. That sort of information is only useful to sheeple. If that sort of information is all you require I suggest you keep reading the Sun. They'll be able to tell you as well as anyone.

Hope that helps.

By the way, I spoke about REITs more than a year ago, here : http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...indpost&p=32934

(let the link load in full or you'll get embroiled in faith based investment - scary!)

Here's another interesting piece from Sept of this year:

REIT tax loss forces rethink by Government

It all rather makes me remember the expression (that so many professionals seem to have forgotten) : don't let the tax tail wag the investment dog!

Edited by Sledgehead

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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