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Tory Mp: New Laws To Prevent People Benefiting From Lower Prices

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Same thoughts as Justin Webb on the Today programme this morning who was sceptical about claims from their guest that people want to pay more for their milk to support farmers.

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Same thoughts as Justin Webb on the Today programme this morning who was sceptical about claims from their guest that people want to pay more for their milk to support farmers.

Have some heart...the farmer just down the road from me hasnt had a new Range Rover in nearly three years! Its not even the latest shape!

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The market is only free until it is no longer free..... ;)

Its amazingly difficult trying to get into the thick skulls of tories that planning regulations are government intervention, not the free market, that pensions are re distributive benefits no different to any other.

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Have some heart...the farmer just down the road from me hasnt had a new Range Rover in nearly three years! Its not even the latest shape!

My current boss at work was a herdsman 30 years ago..Farmers were being paid roughly 22p a litre then...They're currently being paid....about 22p a litre..

My dad was a farmer back in the late 70s, but gave it up, and diversified as there was no money in it..

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Its all about averages: Amazing 1% returns v IMPUTED labour costs

The median Return on Capital Employed (ROCE) for farm businesses is 1%. This
indicates that, overall, the sector is seeing some economic return on the capital used.
Cereal, general cropping, dairy and pig & poultry farms have a positive median ROCE
(Figure 6.1). Forgrazing livestock and horticultural farms the median ROCE is negative.
Horticultural farms show the greatest median loss whilst cereal and general cropping farms
have the greatest medium return

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There's no way milk should be sold below the cost of production, it's just being used as a tool for supermarket wars while dairy farmers lose their livelihoods. That abuse of purchasing power has nothing to do with the free market, and I certainly avoid buying milk at cheap exploitative - and ultimately unsustainable - prices. If the dairy industry collapses, we know where prices will be in 5 years, and we'll all be saying "how did we let that happen"

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Its amazingly difficult trying to get into the thick skulls of tories that planning regulations are government intervention, not the free market, that pensions are re distributive benefits no different to any other.

You think they don't know this? Farmland owner subsidies - good. Farmland worker subsidies - bad. Transport price controls - good, Housing price controls - bad. Employer wage subsidies and tax breaks - good, Employee wage subsidies and tax breaks - bad. Pensioner, housing, tax credit benefit spending - good. Welfare - bad. etc

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Milking the cows while waiting for the change of use to residential?

..where its bought by a Londonite, as a hobby farm, so that they brag to all their Islington friends about how fun the countryside is..

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There's no way milk should be sold below the cost of production, it's just being used as a tool for supermarket wars while dairy farmers lose their livelihoods. That abuse of purchasing power has nothing to do with the free market, and I certainly avoid buying milk at cheap exploitative - and ultimately unsustainable - prices. If the dairy industry collapses, we know where prices will be in 5 years, and we'll all be saying "how did we let that happen"

Is there some kind of buying cartel, like the Milk Marketing Board?

If there is a loss leader competition in the supermarkets, then that is where the losses should remain.

Then again, overborrowed farmers should not be bailed out.

Edited by Bloo Loo

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It's funny how those who extole the virtues of a free market are invariably against it when it goes against their interests.

Back in the old days they used to use import tariffs. These days that's against EU rules, so MPs (usually Tories in rural constituencies) call for enquiries, and talk in vague platitudes about "supporting domestic producers", but do nothing.

Sounds like these dairy farmers need to start voting UKIP.

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How much milk do we import and where from?

Does it meet the same high standards of the UK milk producers?

This is a fundamental point. UK farmers do need to comply with pretty high standards and the public say they should. However nobody seems to care what the standards are in other countries and are happy to buy cheaper products from abroad.

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Have some heart...the farmer just down the road from me hasnt had a new Range Rover in nearly three years! Its not even the latest shape!

The numbers for farming just don't stack up. It is only viable in part if the land is all owned. These "rich" farmers may well be rich people who have bought a farm for a hobby, or have had land in the right places that was sold for development.

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The price of milk needs to rise, and I would pay more, willingly

Subsidies also need to be removed from agriculture and the real price needs to be paid for food at the tills rather than through our taxes.

Prices at the tills would rise, but the overall cost of farming and of food would reduce as the subsidy money wouldn't be there to inflate the supply-side costs. I haven't met a farmer that wouldn't prefer to work without subsidies. You might still need environmental subsidies if you want to maintain a familiar countryside and have cheaper food.

When the price of a pint of filtered rain water is accepted to be more expensive that a pint of milk with all its inputs, something has to be amiss in the consumers' connection with reality.

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I disagree, the price of milk needs to fall and the farmers go bankrupt. Farms need to become more efficient or go out of business.

Why is it perfectly acceptable for 'hardworking' manufactures and engineers to go bankrupt and put out of business, but not acceptable to farmers?

You can import both food and goods.

Do we blame the supermarkets for cheap clothes and iPads? It's simply the free market's in action. Typical of the 'free market' tories to try to intervene in the free market.

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I disagree, the price of milk needs to fall and the farmers go bankrupt. Farms need to become more efficient or go out of business.

Why is it perfectly acceptable for 'hardworking' manufactures and engineers to go bankrupt and put out of business, but not acceptable to farmers?

You can import both food and goods.

Do we blame the supermarkets for cheap clothes and iPads? It's simply the free market's in action. Typical of the 'free market' tories to try to intervene in the free market.

Say if farmers are making a penny or two on milk (if they're lucky), don't you think they'd the shaving all their costs down to the bone in the first place? Milk will be a loss leader for supermarkets, and if farmers made anything, they'd be fined by the likes of Tesco for "making too much money"...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04ynpct/panorama-trouble-at-tesco

Edited by Dave Beans

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I disagree, the price of milk needs to fall and the farmers go bankrupt. Farms need to become more efficient or go out of business.

Why is it perfectly acceptable for 'hardworking' manufactures and engineers to go bankrupt and put out of business, but not acceptable to farmers?

You can import both food and goods.

Do we blame the supermarkets for cheap clothes and iPads? It's simply the free market's in action. Typical of the 'free market' tories to try to intervene in the free market.

Do we ever blame high rents upon housing benefit ? Agri-manufacturers know there is an EU gravy train and charge accordingly.

I don't want everyone to go out of business, nor should they. Subsidies distort the market, however

I suggested food prices would be higher at the till, but likely also cheaper for the consumer at the end of the day - because the overall taxes you pay will be less.

I am happy to pay a fair price for food. It is among the best things about life.

Remember the Bernard Matthews bird flu ? IIRC one cause of the flu that was explored was the fact that the turkey chicks were hatched in the UK, sent to eastern Europe as day-olds for subsequent rearing (food and labour costs cheaper) where they caught bird flu, were killed, trucked back to the UK as carcasses, where the breasts were removed (allowing them to be labelled produced in the UK AFAIK), then the carcasses were sent back to eastern Europe to be turned into sausages. And at every stage there was profit for every participant, but it wasn't all contained in the unrealistically, small price paid by the consumer at the till.

Edited by LiveinHope

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How much in subsidies do these Farms recieve under the C.A.P? (common agriculture policy)

I thought thats what it was all about, not viable in the UK but is lucrative with the subsidies?

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How much in subsidies do these Farms recieve under the C.A.P? (common agriculture policy)

I thought thats what it was all about, not viable in the UK but is lucrative with the subsidies?

You fund the subsidies. Why not just pay a higher price at the till ? Remove the market distortion.

I'd also like to see people more willing to pay more for their food rather than seeing food as an inconvenient expense that gets in the way of other expenditure. We then start to also eat less and better, as quality might be more prevalent, and so in the long run, more affordable.

Personally, I'd think we would be competitive compared to imports (welfare standards applied equitably) and I think 'it' [farming] would be viable.

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You fund the subsidies. Why not just pay a higher price at the till ? Remove the market distortion.

I'd also like to see people more willing to pay more for their food rather than seeing food as an inconvenient expense that gets in the way of other expenditure. We then start to also eat less and better, as quality might be more prevalent, and so in the long run, more affordable.

Personally, I'd think we would be competitive compared to imports (welfare standards applied equitably) and I think 'it' [farming] would be viable.

It's redistributive. Food will form a big part of people's budgets on lower incomes and they will pay very little tax...in fact most people are net recipents from the Exchequer once you add in benefits received.

Doing away with subsidies might suit the top 10% of the income scale only, once you do the sums.

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