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Bossybabe

The Birmingham Pub Bombings- A Conspiracy Perpetrated By The Establishment?

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I have it from someone I've known a long time that the Birmingham Pub Bombings that killed 21 in 1974 were not in fact the work of the IRA, but by the UK Security Services.

Discuss.

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I have it from someone I've known a long time that the Birmingham Pub Bombings that killed 21 in 1974 were not in fact the work of the IRA, but by the UK Security Services.

Discuss.

Any more info? I've got no idea to be honest, but if it were hypothetically to be true the old cynic that I am wouldn't be in the slightest bit surprised.

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Loads. There'll be a book fairly soon so I don't really want to say too much more...except that many strange things appear to have happened around the bombings that are only explicable by the conspiracy theory.

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I have it from someone I've known a long time that the Birmingham Pub Bombings that killed 21 in 1974 were not in fact the work of the IRA, but by the UK Security Services.

Discuss.

I wouldn't pretend to have any insight into that particular atrocity but allegations have been made that the security services did allow IRA atrocities to take place rather than blow informers' cover, that and the alleged tacit cooperation with 'loyalists' thing...

e.g. Stakeknife / Pat Finucane/ Billy Wright

Edit: all of which falls short of actually carrying out an attack

Round about the same time period, you did have reasonably well documented state connections with the Piazza Fontana bombing and the Bologna Massacre in Italy and the suspected, but not proven, state connection with the Brabant massacres in Belgium. So, these strategy of tension style stunts probably do happen. Maybe only to foreigners though, never here, we're British.

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The only conspiracy theory I have is that the banal looking building I used to walk past on lunch break from college is actually the Guildford bombing pub, and was the sort of place that would have sold twigs in vases.

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20 years ago, a friend was apprentice to a skilled jeweller (making jewellery - now owns his own place).

Gave my apprentice friend a lift to work one morning and he invited me into workshop for a coffee. Don't know how we got on to the subject, but the old boss guy jeweller was there, and he told us how he'd been caught up in the pub bombings, and told us how his body (don't ask me how) was still rejecting pieces of debris and particles of glass, 20+ years later.

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Loads. There'll be a book fairly soon so I don't really want to say too much more...except that many strange things appear to have happened around the bombings that are only explicable by the conspiracy theory.

Is the suggestion that elements of the security forces carried out the attack, or is it that the attack was allowed to happen, with maybe the security forces having someone on the 'inside'?

Because my understanding is that various IRA commanders have admitted IRA culpability over the years, most recently...

Birmingham Mail (12/2014): Birmingham pub bombings: Ex-IRA chief admits 'we did it - and I am ashamed'

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I wouldn't pretend to have any insight into that particular atrocity but allegations have been made that the security services did allow IRA atrocities to take place rather than blow informers' cover,

Sounds a lot more plausible than the OP.

Though it's more likely the security forces didn't have sufficiently specific information to thwart this particular attack. Remember the IRA's chilling words: we only have to be lucky once.

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Sounds a lot more plausible than the OP.

Though it's more likely the security forces didn't have sufficiently specific information to thwart this particular attack. Remember the IRA's chilling words: we only have to be lucky once.

I wouldn't preclude the possibility of state involvement in terrorist acts entirely. Incidents like the Lavon Afffair and Bologna are so safely tucked away in the past that the state complicity element is more or less acknowledged.

A possibility that receives less attention, by conspiranauts and official narrative apologists alike, is that security forces get to a point where they've recruited so many double agents, concluded that the enemy of my enemy is my friend so often, and enabled and equipped so many dodgy geezers as part of too-clever-by-half entrapment operations that they no longer know what the f**k is going on ...and something somewhere explodes.

I suspect this happens, a lot, and I could probably come up with a few likely candidates - the first WTC attack, the Mumbai attack, OBL, 7/7, ISIS . All involved people who had been (or were allegedly) facilitated by Western Intelligence agencies at one point or another.

Northern Ireland strikes me as potentially having been particularly bonkers; with different elements of the security forces having a covert presence in both communities. All the makings of an exceptionally unfunny farce.

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The only conspiracy theory I have is that the banal looking building I used to walk past on lunch break from college is actually the Guildford bombing pub, and was the sort of place that would have sold twigs in vases.

The Horse and Groom in Guildford was a pub known to have been frequented by off duty soldiers from nearby barracks towns such as Aldershot. It therefore fitted the general profile of IRA targets at the time such as the Woolwich attack. The thing that was notable about the Birmingham pub bombing was that they were exceptionally powerful, deadly and aimed at targets which had no obvious military or political connection. This meant it did not exactly fit the standard Provisional IRA M.O. This fact was noted by the media at the time because such a random targeting of civilians was seen as an escalation in the normal tactics used by Irish Republicans. In retrospect it looks suspicious though it is possible the IRA were 'experimenting' with their tactics. It had a massive negative impact on the Irish community in the UK and lost the Provisional IRA a lot of support from that group which may explain why it was never repeated. Those who suspect sinister involvement on the part of the UK security services may find it interesting to note that the Birmingham pub bombings were the pretext for introducing the Prevention of Terrorism Act in 1974.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevention_of_Terrorism_Acts

In that respect it fits the profile of terrorism being used as an excuse for extending the executive powers of the state and for restricting civil liberties which has become all too familiar down the years.

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And to add to possible suspicion of incompetence, malpractice or worse by the British authorities there are a number of smelly things about this atrocity.

No official inquest into the deaths of the victims was ever carried out.

Crucial evidence presented at the original trial, including one unexploded bomb, has gone 'missing'.

The official files accompanying a report by Devon and Cornwall constabulary into the conduct of the original investigation into the bombings by West Midland police have been closed until 2069.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-30118137

The Birminghham Pub bombing is the largest unsolved act of murder ever perpetrated in the UK but no one seems interested in identifying or prosecuting the true culprits

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The Birmingham six being fitted up for the crime. Could hardly try the guilt if it was the security service.

Wasn't the Baker Street bank robbery around the same time, Jason Statham talks about the film The Bank Job on You Tube and mentions he's seen enough to believe it to be true.

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And to add to possible suspicion of incompetence, malpractice or worse by the British authorities there are a number of smelly things about this atrocity.

No official inquest into the deaths of the victims was ever carried out.

Crucial evidence presented at the original trial, including one unexploded bomb, has gone 'missing'.

The official files accompanying a report by Devon and Cornwall constabulary into the conduct of the original investigation into the bombings by West Midland police have been closed until 2069.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-30118137

The Birminghham Pub bombing is the largest unsolved act of murder ever perpetrated in the UK but no one seems interested in identifying or prosecuting the true culprits

No post mortems were carried out on the victims of 7/7 and, according to the inquest, no explosive residue was found at any of the crime scenes. So, officially, no-one has a clue what was used, home-made or commercial, to carry out the atrocity. No inquests were held into the deaths of the alleged bombers. Lady Justice Hallett concluded that the inquest had 'left no stone unturned' and consequently there was no need for a public inquiry into such issues as, say, how much the security forces knew about the alleged bombers before the attack...

Edit: basically, you don't need to be much of a conspiraloon to conclude that the judicial treatment of 7/7 was a pile of something unpleasant. At the very least someone screwed up prior to the atrocity, large.

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I wouldn't preclude the possibility of state involvement in terrorist acts entirely. Incidents like the Lavon Afffair and Bologna are so safely tucked away in the past that the state complicity element is more or less acknowledged.

A possibility that receives less attention, by conspiranauts and official narrative apologists alike, is that security forces get to a point where they've recruited so many double agents, concluded that the enemy of my enemy is my friend so often, and enabled and equipped so many dodgy geezers as part of too-clever-by-half entrapment operations that they no longer know what the f**k is going on ...and something somewhere explodes.

A slight twist on that is that they've infiltrated the organisation to such a point that to stop the attack would reveal the informers and they'd have to start over again. For the greater good the attack had to take place to save lives in the future. Perhaps it was the "informers" that suggested the attack to prove how serious they were and it all got out of control?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/british-spies-recruited-paedo-ira-4466798

Kids were quite happiliy sacrificed for information so a bombing a pub really doesn't appear too big a leap.

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No post mortems were carried out on the victims of 7/7 and, according to the inquest, no explosive residue was found at any of the crime scenes. So, officially, no-one has a clue what was used, home-made or commercial, to carry out the atrocity. No inquests were held into the deaths of the alleged bombers. Lady Justice Hallett concluded that the inquest had 'left no stone unturned' and consequently there was no need for a public inquiry into such issues as, say, how much the security forces knew about the alleged bombers before the attack...

Edit: basically, you don't need to be much of a conspiraloon to conclude that the judicial treatment of 7/7 was a pile of something unpleasant. At the very least someone screwed up prior to the atrocity, large.

Suicide bombers are the ultimate accessory if you do want to run a Black Op as they provide ready made culprits while conveniently immolating themselves and much of the forensic evidence when they detonate their devices. It should be noted that all terrorist spectaculars in the UK have been followed almost immediately by some ratcheting up of the general anti terror laws.

The Birmingham Six bombings were unusual in that the IRA generally gave at least a 30 minute warning when attacking what might be deemed civilian targets. If someone wanted to turn that tactic against them for political or other purposes the easiest way would be to either to fail to pass on the warning or to obfuscate it so that the bombs inflicted more casualties than they needed. Alternatively, it may have been simple incompetence on both the Republicans and the British Authorities side. The Guildford pub bombings would have inflicted many more deaths if the Landlord of the Seven Stars had not had the wit to recognise his premises might be another target and to clear it in time before the second bomb exploded. It was his action not that of the police that saved many lives on that night

http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/guildford-pub-bombings---terrorism-7878429

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Suicide bombers are the ultimate accessory if you do want to run a Black Op as they provide ready made culprits while conveniently immolating themselves and much of the forensic evidence when they detonate their devices. It should be noted that all terrorist spectaculars in the UK have been followed almost immediately by some ratcheting up of the general anti terror laws.

In the case of the alleged 7/7 train bombers, they thoughtfully helped the authorities by walking along the length of the rush hour carriages, tossing ID around as they went, before putting their rucksacks on the floor and standing away from them before they went off...

DT: July 7 bombers 'left clues to martyrdom'

The July 7 terrorists left a trail of clues for police before setting off their bombs so that they would be instantly recognised as "martyrs", a court heard on Monday.
The bombers scattered identity and bank cards around the Tube carriages they targeted before placing their rucksacks on the floor and setting off the explosives inside them, jurors heard

None of the survivors in any of the carriages actually saw any of that going on but that's what happened, definitely (edit: for a ... :unsure: )

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Well, if you've know them a long time it's a nailed on certainty that they're correct.

No need to be like that. I only meant I know the person and the circumstances very well and have no reason for disbelief.

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No need to be like that. I only meant I know the person and the circumstances very well and have no reason for disbelief.

As terrorists organisations go the Provisional IRA was normally pretty professional in that it selected targets to make a political, military or economic point.

It is noticeable as time went on they largely moved away from mainland attacks on low grade targets to choose things that would have maximum impact such as the Brighton Grand Hotel bombing which could have wiped out a good part of the British cabinet or the Baltic Exchange and Bishopsgate bombing which went after the City of London

They were most definitely not like jihadists who just want easy blood, brownie points and 30 virgins from Allah.

While not unique amongst Republican terror attacks in targeting civilians the Birmingham bombings were certainly not the norm for Provisional mainland campaign attacks. On this ground alone they were unusual. Given it is now clear a lot of dodgy things were going on in the 1970s suspicion about the events surrounding this atrocity are certainly up for re-examination.

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The Birmingham Six bombings were unusual in that the IRA generally gave at least a 30 minute warning when attacking what might be deemed civilian targets. If someone wanted to turn that tactic against them for political or other purposes the easiest way would be to either to fail to pass on the warning or to obfuscate it so that the bombs inflicted more casualties than they needed.

An interesting ethical (hypothetical) dilemma for anyone in a position of power gifted with a certain moral flexibility. Do you interrupt an opponent making a mistake which will blow back against the opponent but which will harm innocents. And if you're OK with that, how about actively helping him making a mistake?

Maybe baby steps to start with. First ease yourself in by rationalising and normalising torture. Start with folk who you genuinely suspect of having a bomb ticking away somewhere, then folk you think are just a little bit iffy and you happen to have some spare buckets and hummus lying around doing nothing. After a bit of that your moral compass should be so f**ked up you're ready to handle the Big Boy stuff.

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