Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
Sign in to follow this  
otters

More Money Needs To Be Thrown At The Nhs

Recommended Posts

Next time I hear a politician say the NHS needs more money thrown at it, I hope someone puts these figures up against them.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11295416/The-rise-of-the-300000-NHS-fatcats.html

Regardless of fatcats, there's a more fundamental point. The NHS is designed so it can only ever demand ever more money or be mired in crisis and cutbacks, and horror stories[1] of Bad Things happening to patients. Or rather, both.

Left unchecked, the NHS will still be in crisis when it consumes 100% (and rising) of the nation's resources.

[1] The ones that hit the meeja are the tip of an iceberg.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ironically I'm told by medical folk I know that a lot of this is the result of poorly implemented governmental cuts and constraints.

Put simply a lot more agency relief/bank staff are being used. These folk are often brought in on short term/high salary contracts.

No idea of the ins and outs, but it sounds like classic robbing Peter to pay Paul management. No doubt managers are being asked to make savings in certain key areas, with agency/bank staff being treated as emergency or reserve cash and therefore not subject to such stipulation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suspect that large sums of money just walk out the door. A social services manager I know has fired a third of his staff for corruption/misuse of resources. His predecessor got away with £5M without prosecution and those fired feel aggrieved as they can't see what they have done wrong! e.g. husband buys BTL, wife puts refugees she is supposed to home in BTL at inflated rent.

Most front line staff in NHS are brilliant and dedicated. However, they are not the ones able to fiddle the books. Its those that arrive in flashy motors you have to watch. A nearby 'academy' school's headmaster was recently arrested along with an accomplice. Others must have been complicit as he has been in post for around 30 years and the theft has been amazingly blatant in recent years.

Needless to say it only came to light when the school went into special measures for something completely different. One has to wonder how OFSTED inspectors turned a blind eye to a village school paying its headmaster 'inner London' wages before passing the school as 'outstanding'. More complicity?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Left unchecked, the NHS will still be in crisis when it consumes 100% (and rising) of the nation's resources.

Yep. This is a baby boomer thing. The generation that have had the full force of the state behind them their entire lives are about to discover its limit. It cannot support them in their old age to a standard that matches their expectations.

By the time those under 18 today reach old age, there will have been a complete transformation of how healthcare services work. Digital medicine, monitoring and automation will play a big part in this, but so will people's changed expectations about what a health service should be.

It is not going to be an easy transition.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suspect that large sums of money just walk out the door. A social services manager I know has fired a third of his staff for corruption/misuse of resources. His predecessor got away with £5M without prosecution and those fired feel aggrieved as they can't see what they have done wrong! e.g. husband buys BTL, wife puts refugees she is supposed to home in BTL at inflated rent.

Most front line staff in NHS are brilliant and dedicated. However, they are not the ones able to fiddle the books. Its those that arrive in flashy motors you have to watch. A nearby 'academy' school's headmaster was recently arrested along with an accomplice. Others must have been complicit as he has been in post for around 30 years and the theft has been amazingly blatant in recent years.

Needless to say it only came to light when the school went into special measures for something completely different. One has to wonder how OFSTED inspectors turned a blind eye to a village school paying its headmaster 'inner London' wages before passing the school as 'outstanding'. More complicity?

I guess with relevance to the NHS to the cosy relationship GP's have with pharma and local pharmacies. My local surgery have a pharmacy tacked onto it, and its a constant flow of new prescriptions. Of course the GP surgery is the privatised 'bit' of the NHS and combined with drug pushing a very nice business it must be.

Combined with drugs for otherwise healthy people, such as statins.

Edited by aSecureTenant

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I would like to see a £100,000 cap on public service wages. If people don't like it there is always the private sector. I would be happier paying 3 people £60,000 to do a job than pay one £120,000. at least it spreads the money about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep, NHS in its current form is totally unsustainable. It also factors into house prices, as when people move abroad for cheaper housing and retirement, they often come running back when they realise how much medical care costs!

But basically , by the time I get old and get cancer or whatever, I won't have a house to sell to pay for care and the health service will just have to let me die. On a brighter note they might find a cure for cancer! Hmmm but I'll be too poor and house-less to afford it! Back to just dying then! Every cloud has a silver lining! Happy dayz! :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I would like to see a £100,000 cap on public service wages. If people don't like it there is always the private sector. I would be happier paying 3 people £60,000 to do a job than pay one £120,000. at least it spreads the money about.

Wot, like three brains surgeons removing your tumour? You could put people from the job centre on a two week course. Brain surgery for dummies.

I'm being flippant obvs., but you see what I'm getting at?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its a complete attitude problem...its not their money, so what do they care.

I recall being flabbergasted when the NHS wheeled out one of their many 'leaders' (typical scarf wearing - even though it was high summer - middle aged female with obligatory short haircut) to pass the fantastic insight... it is worth it at any cost because Peterborough needed a new hospital.

This thing.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/caroline-molloy/peterborough-hospital-nhs-and-britains-privatisation-racket

Billions wasted, but the money isnt important apparently. It was needed 'at any cost'

May as well just write blank cheques.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like the old budgeting systems when you could not (due to budget restrictions) buy the £10,000 item (Capital) so rented it on a three-year £1,000 per month contract. Job done, accountants happy and bonuses all round.

I suspect you've nailed it.

Which is often why cuts over cost efficency is madness.

Plenty of snouts in the rentier trough though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ironically I'm told by medical folk I know that a lot of this is the result of poorly implemented governmental cuts and constraints.

A discussion I had with a senior officer at a local hospital raised a similar point. Government receipts were conditional on being used for specific areas of treatment. Usually knee jerk reactions to the latest scandal being highlighted.

No doubt well intentioned but it would have the effect of disempowering management and staff, we all know how efficient central government is at getting money spent wisely and resources being used effectively and efficiently.h

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its a complete attitude problem...its not their money, so what do they care.

I recall being flabbergasted when the NHS wheeled out one of their many 'leaders' (typical scarf wearing - even though it was high summer - middle aged female with obligatory short haircut) to pass the fantastic insight... it is worth it at any cost because Peterborough needed a new hospital.

This thing.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/caroline-molloy/peterborough-hospital-nhs-and-britains-privatisation-racket

Billions wasted, but the money isnt important apparently. It was needed 'at any cost'

May as well just write blank cheques.

PFI repayments were costing the Trust £41.6m a year - over 20% of its budget. There are 31 years of the contract left to run. The Trust is now running annual deficits of £46million and rising

That is truly stocking!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so the members of the NHS cannot yet diagnose the physical condition of the organisation as a whole?

it's easy.

it's cancer.

the symptoms, and the remedies, are the same.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A complete reform and reorganisation (that's a proper reorganisation not the token efforts of previous government) of the NHS is required. Political leaders with the backbone to ignore special pleading also required.

Top of the list to look into are the types of medical services the NHS should provide.

Alternative means and times of delivering GP services are also crucial.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wot, like three brains surgeons removing your tumour? You could put people from the job centre on a two week course. Brain surgery for dummies.

I'm being flippant obvs., but you see what I'm getting at?

not flippant at all.

a few years from now it'll all be computerised and the chavs will be operating the tumour-removing nanobots remotely via their playstations.

..like playing minecraft or something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A complete reform and reorganisation (that's a proper reorganisation not the token efforts of previous government) of the NHS is required. Political leaders with the backbone to ignore special pleading also required.

Top of the list to look into are the types of medical services the NHS should provide.

Alternative means and times of delivering GP services are also crucial.

..well, like council services.

if they did beyond monday-friday 9-5 it might be a start.

most people don't have the luxury of being able to book 1/2 day off work for a 10 minute doctors appointment, so it needs structuring better..with longer hours in the day and a saturday service as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A few simple things to improve the NHS overnight:

- £20 per GP visit.

- £50 [er AE visit

- £500 if drunk in AE

- Sack 10% of the staff. Hopefully just the low performers

- All employees work for the NHS or private sector. Not both.

Edited by spyguy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so the members of the NHS cannot yet diagnose the physical condition of the organisation as a whole?

it's easy.

it's cancer.

the symptoms, and the remedies, are the same.

The NHS approach to cancer (from personal experience of a close family member):

  1. Bunch of tests leading in due course to diagnosis of cancer (June).
  2. Discuss with patient and family. Agree patient is otherwise in good shape, and cancer should be operated for best chance of full recovery.
  3. Promise operation, on a timescale of round-about week-after-next.
  4. Procrastinate.
  5. Repeat 3 and 4 for weeks leading into months. Perhaps years if necessary.
  6. Declare cancer is so far advanced as to be inoperable (December).
  7. Bring all the no-expense-spared forces of end-of-life treatment to bear.
  8. Feed patient cocktail of powerful drugs that completely zombify her and leave her needing 24-hour care.
  9. Deny patient an overdue death for as long as possible.

Any thoughts on how that recipe applies to the organisation itself?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The NHS approach to cancer (from personal experience of a close family member):

  1. Bunch of tests leading in due course to diagnosis of cancer (June).
  2. Discuss with patient and family. Agree patient is otherwise in good shape, and cancer should be operated for best chance of full recovery.
  3. Promise operation, on a timescale of round-about week-after-next.
  4. Procrastinate.
  5. Repeat 3 and 4 for weeks leading into months. Perhaps years if necessary.
  6. Declare cancer is so far advanced as to be inoperable (December).
  7. Bring all the no-expense-spared forces of end-of-life treatment to bear.
  8. Feed patient cocktail of powerful drugs that completely zombify her and leave her needing 24-hour care.
  9. Deny patient an overdue death for as long as possible.

Any thoughts on how that recipe applies to the organisation itself?

Similar to my experience. Luckily nothing as terminal as cancer.

Here's another suggestion:

- Interview , say, 1 in 200 patients using the NHS. Review their diagnostics and treatment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its a complete attitude problem...its not their money, so what do they care.

I recall being flabbergasted when the NHS wheeled out one of their many 'leaders' (typical scarf wearing - even though it was high summer - middle aged female with obligatory short haircut) to pass the fantastic insight... it is worth it at any cost because Peterborough needed a new hospital.

This thing.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/caroline-molloy/peterborough-hospital-nhs-and-britains-privatisation-racket

Billions wasted, but the money isnt important apparently. It was needed 'at any cost'

May as well just write blank cheques.

Believe me everyone working in the NHS knows that PFI is a total waste of money but their hands have been tied by politicians, there is now no other funding model unless you can raise £10 million or so on a kickstarter or something.

The criminal part of it is that hospitals are always undergoing both small and large changes as medicine advances, but if you want to make any change to a PFI building you better open your checkbook, want to add an extra lightbulb in a consulting room, that'll be £450, want to knock down a partition wall to add an extra doorway, that'll be £36,000 and so on.

One of the legacies of PFI is that an entire generation of NHS managers have been taught that "the price tag doesn't matter" I cant help thinking that this is a deliberate long term policy which will end up in the NHS being broken up and sold off, probably to the same people who currently own the PFI contracts.

What we need is a political party prepared to renationalise every PFI contract.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Similar to my experience. Luckily nothing as terminal as cancer.

Here's another suggestion:

- Interview , say, 1 in 200 patients using the NHS. Review their diagnostics and treatment.

That's the approach that makes it look good.

The sample of patients you can interview about cancer is biased towards the patients who survived it. Which in turn is highly correlated with the minority who didn't just get strung along until dead. :wacko:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • The Prime Minister stated that there were three Brexit options available to the UK:   203 members have voted

    1. 1. Which of the Prime Minister's options would you choose?


      • Leave with the negotiated deal
      • Remain
      • Leave with no deal

    Please sign in or register to vote in this poll. View topic


×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.