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When Renting Is Also Very Expensive.....

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I have some (probably stupid) questions!

In Brighton, renting is also very expensive in relation to income (though a bit cheaper than buying a place) and I assume this is a lot to do with BTL/ landlords/ letting agents either being very greedy or having to charge a lot due to servicing large mortgages.

One beds usually go for 650, 2 beds for 750+, houses anything up to 1500+ a month- all a great deal of money for a town where average salaries are about 15k.

Is this the case for most towns? (in terms of renting being so expensive)

And during the last recession, did rents automatically drop when the whole market collapsed?

Or were BTL landlords suffering as much as everyone else did and start losing their properties?

Seems to me that everyone is always going need a place to live and if someone had lost their home and had to rent again, the landlords could make a packet ripping off destitute people.

Brighton is teetering on the edge a bit at the moment it seems with restaurants & shops closing, high levels of benefit claims, lack of work etc so it seems a bit mad that rents are still so high- there must be a lot of empty property.

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When the crash comes this could be quite a big problem. In a falling market demand for places to rent should go up but the new BTL landlords will panic and sell, resulting in a tight supply and increases in rents.

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Young Goat,

True to a point, but rents also reflect the state of the economy too. The biggest increase in rents in London occureed during the latter part of the 90's, particulalry the run up to the tail of the dot.com boom.

If people haven't got the money (or can;t borrow it like they could) they can't spend it. If enough goes on rents then consumer expenditure gets clobbered. As things get tight people become a lot more cicumspect about all their outgoings and that includes the level of rent that they have to pay and more imaginitive ways are sought to get round the problem.

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Seems to me that everyone is always going need a place to live and if someone had lost their home and had to rent again, the landlords could make a packet ripping off destitute people.

I really take offence at that childish comment. Which part of accomodating someone else & maintaining the property, accepting their phone calls & emails 24 hours a day, risking vary large amounts of capital on their conduct, amounts to ripping them off?

Do you drive off when you fill up your petrol tank, or do you go in & pay? I guess they're ripping you off as well?

Maybe it's you who is ripping off your employer, sat there at work wasting your time on the internet.

:angry:

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Young Goat,

True to a point, but rents also reflect the state of the economy too. The biggest increase in rents in London occureed during the latter part of the 90's, particulalry the run up to the tail of the dot.com boom.

If people haven't got the money (or can;t borrow it like they could) they can't spend it. If enough goes on rents then consumer expenditure gets clobbered. As things get tight people become a lot more cicumspect about all their outgoings and that includes the level of rent that they have to pay and more imaginitive ways are sought to get round the problem.

Also, when the economy goes pear-shaped foreign workers (from USA, Europe etc.) leave in droves.

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I really take offence at that childish comment. Which part of accomodating someone else & maintaining the property, accepting their phone calls & emails 24 hours a day, risking vary large amounts of capital on their conduct, amounts to ripping them off?

Do you drive off when you fill up your petrol tank, or do you go in & pay? I guess they're ripping you off as well?

Maybe it's you who is ripping off your employer, sat there at work wasting your time on the internet.

:angry:

Get a job.

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I really take offence at that childish comment. Which part of accomodating someone else & maintaining the property, accepting their phone calls & emails 24 hours a day, risking vary large amounts of capital on their conduct, amounts to ripping them off?

Do you drive off when you fill up your petrol tank, or do you go in & pay? I guess they're ripping you off as well?

Maybe it's you who is ripping off your employer, sat there at work wasting your time on the internet.

:angry:

As it goes I have a very nice landlord who has looked after the property that I live in and doesnt charge over the odds for rent.

However, I know PLENTY of shark landlords in brighton who do nothing to look after the properties and charge maximum rent for total sh*t holes- and take away the element of choice for people who cannot afford anything better. My boss lives in a flat in brighton that she pays a lot for - the window recently fell out (and that is no lie)- the landlord took 2 weeks to fix it while refusing to give her a break in the rent. So PLEASE dont play the poor landlord card- most are sharks in it for the money and who dont care about the state of their properties!

And also, for your information, I am off work today so not ripping off my employer!

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I really take offence at that childish comment. Which part of accomodating someone else & maintaining the property, accepting their phone calls & emails 24 hours a day, risking vary large amounts of capital on their conduct, amounts to ripping them off?

Do you drive off when you fill up your petrol tank, or do you go in & pay? I guess they're ripping you off as well?

Maybe it's you who is ripping off your employer, sat there at work wasting your time on the internet.

:angry:

I have to agree with Rents. Landlords do provide a much needed service and (with exceptions) are just regular business people not out to rip anyone off.

It's hard work when things go awry and if I call my landlord I expect him to jump - and he does. That's part of the deal.

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Young Goat,

True to a point, but rents also reflect the state of the economy too. The biggest increase in rents in London occureed during the latter part of the 90's, particulalry the run up to the tail of the dot.com boom.

However I don't expect a fall in real income large enough to have a significant effect on rents.

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As it goes I have a very nice landlord who has looked after the property that I live in and doesnt charge over the odds for rent.

However, I know PLENTY of shark landlords in brighton who do nothing to look after the properties and charge maximum rent for total sh*t holes- and take away the element of choice for people who cannot afford anything better. My boss lives in a flat in brighton that she pays a lot for - the window recently fell out (and that is no lie)- the landlord took 2 weeks to fix it while refusing to give her a break in the rent. So PLEASE dont play the poor landlord card- most are sharks in it for the money and who dont care about the state of their properties!

And also, for your information, I am off work today so not ripping off my employer!

Do you seriously think the landlord should have given a break on the rent for that? Typical tenant thinking. Was the property uninhabitable during this disaster?

Me, I would have had an emergency board up done, then done my best to get it sorted ASAP. Do you know how long it takes to get a window ordered to fit?

Didn't think so. 2 weeks is probably about right.

I bet an OO would have put up with the problem for a lot longer and wouldn't have asked the bank for a break on their interest bill.

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In a faltering economy, which accompanies an HPC, people get divorced less (fact...they tend to just have affairs instead) and others share properties that would otherwise be single occupied, or they go home to their parents. For all the people being repossessed, or not buying because of falling prices, there would be just as many falling out of the rental market, so rent rates would remain steady, or even fall if the oversupply of new build flats is as drastic as is being suggested.

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I thought property only went up???? <_<

Yeah property always goes up, but tenants don't always behave themselves.

As it goes I have a very nice landlord who has looked after the property that I live in and doesnt charge over the odds for rent.

However, I know PLENTY of shark landlords in brighton who do nothing to look after the properties and charge maximum rent for total sh*t holes- and take away the element of choice for people who cannot afford anything better. My boss lives in a flat in brighton that she pays a lot for - the window recently fell out (and that is no lie)- the landlord took 2 weeks to fix it while refusing to give her a break in the rent. So PLEASE dont play the poor landlord card- most are sharks in it for the money and who dont care about the state of their properties!

And also, for your information, I am off work today so not ripping off my employer!

Now I'm wondering if I got the wrong end of the stick there. Did the glass fall out, or the whole window?

Either way, it would be excessive to ask for a break on the rent. But 2 weeks would have been excessive if it was just the glass.

Do you know what I do with tenants who ask for rent breaks? I refuse to renew their tenancy because I find them unreasonable and don't want to have to deal with them if something REAL goes wrong.

Edited by Time to raise the rents.

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My view is that the SIPPS debacle will force up rents (round here) - If there are fewer properties available - and demand is the same or higher - rents will go up - especially for good properties in nice areas. That is why I am off trying to buy another one right now - Yes the value may drop in the short term - perhaps not. But as I have said all along, consistently, I would prefer to buy either at the bottom or in a falling market - loads more choice, loads of negotiation scope. Once things are OBVIOUSLY seen to be picking up - then the rush will start & I do not want to be part of the stampede. Just personally. Not advice - Just my own personal strategy.

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My view is that the SIPPS debacle will force up rents (round here) - If there are fewer properties available - and demand is the same or higher - rents will go up - especially for good properties in nice areas. That is why I am off trying to buy another one right now - Yes the value may drop in the short term - perhaps not. But as I have said all along, consistently, I would prefer to buy either at the bottom or in a falling market - loads more choice, loads of negotiation scope. Once things are OBVIOUSLY seen to be picking up - then the rush will start & I do not want to be part of the stampede. Just personally. Not advice - Just my own personal strategy.

A great strategy. I was buying a week after 9/11 and when the tanks rolled into Iraq. The agents had plenty of time to assist me and were very happy to see a buyer of any type.

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My view is that the SIPPS debacle will force up rents (round here) - If there are fewer properties available - and demand is the same or higher - rents will go up - especially for good properties in nice areas. That is why I am off trying to buy another one right now - Yes the value may drop in the short term - perhaps not. But as I have said all along, consistently, I would prefer to buy either at the bottom or in a falling market - loads more choice, loads of negotiation scope. Once things are OBVIOUSLY seen to be picking up - then the rush will start & I do not want to be part of the stampede. Just personally. Not advice - Just my own personal strategy.

Why will there be fewer properties available? Those that were thinking of SIPPS weren't current rentals. Presumably most of the current rentals will still exist, but households might be tightening their belts and trading down. I think the most likely thing is that rents might edge up a little in the 1-2bed market, but will fall for larger properties.

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Yeah property always goes up, but tenants don't always behave themselves.

Now I'm wondering if I got the wrong end of the stick there. Did the glass fall out, or the whole window?

Either way, it would be excessive to ask for a break on the rent. But 2 weeks would have been excessive if it was just the glass.

Do you know what I do with tenants who ask for rent breaks? I refuse to renew their tenancy because I find them unreasonable and don't want to have to deal with them if something REAL goes wrong.

The whole frame of the window had rotted due to the lack of general repair on the place and fell out- she had to put up with polythene over the window for that time! The flat was freezing and the landlord tried his best to use the old rotting frame as he didnt want to do it properly. And it took 2 weeks- to me that could be sorted out a lot faster.

What constitutes a break in rent then? No window in the middle of winter seems pretty serious to me- what of that was an old person & they got hyperthermia as a result? (not wishing to get too OTT about this of course)

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The whole frame of the window had rotted due to the lack of general repair on the place and fell out- she had to put up with polythene over the window for that time! The flat was freezing and the landlord tried his best to use the old rotting frame as he didnt want to do it properly. And it took 2 weeks- to me that could be sorted out a lot faster.

What constitutes a break in rent then? No window in the middle of winter seems pretty serious to me- what of that was an old person & they got hyperthermia as a result? (not wishing to get too OTT about this of course)

A break in rent would be applicable if the place was completely uninhabitable. One broken window does not make a place uninhabitable. What floor was it on?

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One beds usually go for 650, 2 beds for 750+, houses anything up to 1500+ a month- all a great deal of money for a town where average salaries are about 15k.

Try again. 2005 ASHE figures have been temporarily withdrawn for minor corrections, but in 2004, average full-time salaries for people living in East Sussex were over £25,000. It was a bit less for people working in East Sussex, but still over £22,500, but housing costs in an area are based on the earnings of people who live there, not people who work there.

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The whole frame of the window had rotted due to the lack of general repair on the place and fell out- she had to put up with polythene over the window for that time! The flat was freezing and the landlord tried his best to use the old rotting frame as he didnt want to do it properly. And it took 2 weeks- to me that could be sorted out a lot faster.

Reminds me of my student days. I shared a rented house in Leeds. The windows were wooden framed and rotten. They were so bad that you could stick a screwdriver through them with no effort. The landlord did nothing about this until they got so bad the fasteners fell off the windows so you couldn't close them!

To my amazement the landlord turned up one day to repair the windows.

He used concrete, yes, concrete (concrete is cheap) to fill the rotten sections of the window frames and he reset the fasteners in the concrete.

He did a really thorough job and even repainted the windows. they looked superb (on the surface!)

He sold the house a few weeks after we left. That was probably about as long as the windows would hold together...

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I have some (probably stupid) questions!

In Brighton, renting is also very expensive in relation to income (though a bit cheaper than buying a place) and I assume this is a lot to do with BTL/ landlords/ letting agents either being very greedy or having to charge a lot due to servicing large mortgages.

One beds usually go for 650, 2 beds for 750+, houses anything up to 1500+ a month- all a great deal of money for a town where average salaries are about 15k.

Is this the case for most towns? (in terms of renting being so expensive)

And during the last recession, did rents automatically drop when the whole market collapsed?

Or were BTL landlords suffering as much as everyone else did and start losing their properties?

Seems to me that everyone is always going need a place to live and if someone had lost their home and had to rent again, the landlords could make a packet ripping off destitute people.

Brighton is teetering on the edge a bit at the moment it seems with restaurants & shops closing, high levels of benefit claims, lack of work etc so it seems a bit mad that rents are still so high- there must be a lot of empty property.

You are right, contrary to what some people say on here renting is BRUTALLY expensive, still often twice as much as the mortgage payment would have been a few short years ago. If we'd been in a position to buy the house we rent in 2000 the mortgage would have been sub £400, less if we'd had opportunity to save a nice deposit. The rent currently is £800, would be £950 on a repayment mortgage but that's putting down every cent of savings - without doing that the mortgage would be much higher.

DrBubb often makes it sound like you can avoid a BRUTAL assualt on your cost of living by renting. You can't - many average people have had to shell out hundreds of extra pounds to put a roof over their head during the bubble and have often had to live in smaller rougher places. That's the reality - there's virtually no affordable housing to rent or buy.

The rental market tends to fall with the rest of the economy in a downturn. With rents so high, few are going to bother breaking their balls to pay their landlord - they'll return to parents, live with friends or relatives.

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Which part of accomodating someone else & maintaining the property, accepting their phone calls & emails 24 hours a day, risking vary large amounts of capital on their conduct, amounts to ripping them off?

And all this for a percentage return less than you can get from a building society.

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One beds usually go for 650, 2 beds for 750+, houses anything up to 1500+ a month- all a great deal of money for a town where average salaries are about 15k.

I would thought in a HPC in a city where average salary is 15K, it does not matter if rents go up or not cause most people will leave a couple of months unpaid before leaving. Not easy to ask 300-400pcm from people on benefits and if you do, not guaranteed that you will actually get it, isn't it?

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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