Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Ken Clarke Thinks A8 Immigration Hasn't Contributed To Housing Issues


pl1
 Share

Recommended Posts

You tell me - they are voting Labour.

Actually most younger people aren't voting at all, though it's true that the ones who do vote tend towards left wing parties like Labour, the LibDems and the Greens.

Again, the idea that UKIP voters don't like immigration because they are competing with immigrants themselves doesn't really fit with studies of who is actually voting UKIP. The core UKIP vote is homeowners over 55. Most EU immigrants are workers in their 20s and early 30s. The amount of competition between these two groups for jobs and housing is low to zero, and people in their 20s and 30s make very little use of the NHS. Most of the 20/30something EU migrants I know personally go back to their home countries when they need medical care.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are plenty of poor British people in London - why aren't they voting for UKIP?

They probably are but there are far more rich/immigrants /ethnic minorities there and that could well explain the small " %" of UKIP votes, the use use of percentages instead of hard numbers always starts alarm bells ringing especially when those percentages come in the form of high/low with no no numbers

I could actually truthfully state there`s been an 100% increase in immigrants livening in the same street as me which is a very high increase in immigration in such a small area fact is there are now two Polish people there now, but 250 houses

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do you realise that EU citizens can vote in EU elections?

Only if they go through a process of declaring that they want to vote in EU elections the UK and not in their home country. To get a poll card they have to actively obtain, fill in and submit one of these:

http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/162813/UC1-English.pdf

Very few EU migrants in the UK are aware of this.

And anyway, even if 15% of the local population in a high immigration area were EU immigrants not voting for UKIP, that wouldn't stop the other 85% who are UK citizens from voting UKIP, would it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They probably are but there are far more rich/immigrants /ethnic minorities there and that could well explain the small " %" of UKIP votes, the use use of percentages instead of hard numbers always starts alarm bells ringing especially when those percentages come in the form of high/low with no no numbers

I could actually truthfully state there`s been an 100% increase in immigrants livening in the same street as me which is a very high increase in immigration in such a small area fact is there are now two Polish people there now, but 250 houses

370k London residents voted UKIP in the 2014 European parliamentary election in a city of 8 million people. There are a lot more than 370k working/lower middle class British people in London, probably 10 times the number who voted for UKIP.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Only if they go through a process of declaring that they want to vote in EU elections the UK and not in their home country. To get a poll card they have to actively obtain, fill in and submit one of these:

http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/162813/UC1-English.pdf

Very few EU migrants in the UK are aware of this.

And anyway, even if 15% of the local population in a high immigration area were EU immigrants not voting for UKIP, that wouldn't stop the other 85% who are UK citizens from voting UKIP, would it?

Oh come off it. Your original statement that non-Brits can't vote in British elections was a complete lie, and that's the best excuse you can come up with?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh come off it. Your original statement that non-Brits can't vote in British elections was a complete lie, and that's the best excuse you can come up with?

I never said non-Brits can't vote in British elections, I am well aware there are qualifications. EU migrants who haven't filled in that form can't vote in EU parliamentary elections. Very few of them are aware that form exists, and the UK government doesn't exactly work hard to advertise it. All EU migrants can vote in UK local elections and EU migrants cannot vote in UK general elections unless they get UK citizenship, which few of them do.

Edited by Dorkins
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I never said non-Brits can't vote in British elections, I am well aware there are qualifications. EU migrants who haven't filled in that form can't vote in EU parliamentary elections. Very few of them are aware that form exists, and the UK government doesn't exactly work hard to advertise it. All EU migrants can vote in UK local elections and EU migrants cannot vote in UK general elections unless they get UK citizenship, which few of them do.

What was someone saying about 2 + 2 does not equal 4? You did, in fact, say that non-Brits cannot vote in most British elections, and that is simply not true. EU citizens can vote in most elections, just not parliamentary elections, and migrants from the Commonwealth who are resident in the UK can vote in all elections.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What was someone saying about 2 + 2 does not equal 4? You did, in fact, say that non-Brits cannot vote in most British elections, and that is simply not true. EU citizens can vote in most elections, just not parliamentary elections, and migrants from the Commonwealth who are resident in the UK can vote in all elections.

Fair enough - I did say that non-Brits cannot vote in most British elections, and I was wrong about that.

I still think the idea that UKIP voters in London/inner SE are being drowned out by the tide of immigrant votes is wrong though.

British people living in areas where there are relatively high numbers of immigrants are less likely to vote UKIP than British voters living in areas where there are relatively few immigrants. The people voting for UKIP are largely not the ones competing with immigrants for jobs and housing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

British people living in areas where there are relatively high numbers of immigrants are less likely to vote UKIP than British voters living in areas where there are relatively few immigrants. The people voting for UKIP are largely not the ones competing with immigrants for jobs and housing.

Perhaps they are the ones that can see how things have changed for the worse due to their older age, the young who don`t tend to vote on mass know no difference ,and accept it as the norm dose that make it right ,,the fact that the ones coppeting for the jobs have not joined the dots as of yet ,perhaps the older UKIP voters are looking out for their siblings as they can see the change that has taken place

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perhaps they are the ones that can see how things have changed for the worse due to their older age, the young who don`t tend to vote on mass know no difference ,and accept it as the norm dose that make it right ,,the fact that the ones coppeting for the jobs have not joined the dots as of yet ,perhaps the older UKIP voters are looking out for their siblings as they can see the change that has taken place

Being able to see that things have changed for the worse does not equal an ability to correctly understand how that change happened and what to do to make things better in the future.

Most of the British 20- and 30somethings I know are fully aware they have less than their parents did at their age but they also don't think immigration is the cause of this. They are much more likely to blame house prices and NIMBYs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest TheBlueCat

Most immigrants aren't allowed to vote in most elections as they aren't UK citizens.

Possibly not quite true:

http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/faq/voting-and-registration/who-is-eligible-to-vote-at-a-uk-general-election

To vote in a UK general election a person must be registered to vote and also: be 18 years of age or over on polling day. be a British citizen, a qualifying Commonwealth citizen or a citizen of the Republic of Ireland. not be subject to any legal incapacity to vote.

Looking at the latest migration statistics:

http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/latest-immigration-statistics

More than half are non-EU. It's a reasonable bet that a very large chunk of them are from Commonwealth countries (e.g. India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Australia, Canada etc) so, adding them to the large number of Irish citizens living in the UK, it's just about possible that most - meaning more than half - immigrants are in fact able to vote in UK elections (although not EU ones).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Being able to see that things have changed for the worse does not equal an ability to correctly understand how that change happened and what to do to make things better in the future.

Most of the British 20- and 30somethings I know are fully aware they have less than their parents did at their age but they also don't think immigration is the cause of this. They are much more likely to blame house prices and NIMBYs.

They must be happy with what they are getting paid then ...houses would be that much more affordable if wages were not depressed (as a result of uncontrolled immigration) ...ask them ho many of there parents needed in work benefits to help them exist, fact is many can`t see the wood from the trees because they acept it as the norm they have known no different, there is no silver bullet that will cure all our problems including stopping uncontrolled immigration but it would be a start

I`m no against immigration what i am against is uncontrolled immigration without providing the infrastructure/housing to go with it,,, this has not happened and will not happen so the 20 and 30 somethings that you know need to get use to have less for evrry year that gose by

A points system is a fair way to control the problem just like AUS/CAN/USA/NZ have

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I remember the results coming in during the euro elections. There was a marked difference between inner London and the few remaining borough's (like Bromley) that still have a white-british majority.

Also worth noting that nearly 20% of voters in the UKIP got under 4.4 million votes. Include all the other ones (an independence from Europe, BNP, English Democrats, NO2EU, we demand a referendum, Britain first) and that bumps it up to near 5 million.

I dont think the hostility to UKIP in London is simply due to the immigration issue. London is pretty much dependent on Banking (an industry that likes the predictability of two party politics) and the public sector (whose unions will stop at nothing to destroy UKIP as such a right wing group surely poses a threat to their gravy train)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also worth noting that nearly 20% of voters in the UKIP got under 4.4 million votes. Include all the other ones (an independence from Europe, BNP, English Democrats, NO2EU, we demand a referendum, Britain first) and that bumps it up to near 5 million.

I dont think the hostility to UKIP in London is simply due to the immigration issue. London is pretty much dependent on Banking (an industry that likes the predictability of two party politics) and the public sector (whose unions will stop at nothing to destroy UKIP as such a right wing group surely poses a threat to their gravy train)

So the anti-EU parties picked up 5m votes from an electorate of over 45 million.

London is not dependent on the City of London, the 300k people who work there are parasites on everybody in the UK including Londoners and their wages push up living costs for other people who live in London and have to compete with them for housing. London is no more dependent on public sector employment than anywhere else in the UK.

120516-private-employment.jpg

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/neilobrien1/100158424/is-the-north-really-dependent-on-public-sector-jobs-actually-its-not-so-simple/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Australia has a higher immigration rate than the UK and immigration is a much more contentious political issue there than it is in the UK.

The point is it takes people who are an asset to the country and they change the criteria/skills required as an when needed it dose not have an open door policy

it also has a contribution based welfare system dosent it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So the anti-EU parties picked up 5m votes from an electorate of over 45 million.

London is not dependent on the City of London, the 300k people who work there are parasites on everybody in the UK including Londoners and their wages push up living costs for other people who live in London and have to compete with them for housing. London is no more dependent on public sector employment than anywhere else in the UK.

120516-private-employment.jpg

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/neilobrien1/100158424/is-the-north-really-dependent-on-public-sector-jobs-actually-its-not-so-simple/

Sure. Well, 5 million out of a total 16.5 million votes cast, granted.

But go back 15 years and it was barely 1/10th of that. Even labour, in the early 20th century didnt go from nothing to government within one election cycle.

Next EU crisis it will probably triple or more again. Maybe the middle classes havent seen foreigners take their jobs or undercut them to the extent that the working class have. Wait a few more years and the affluent shires will be voting UKIP just as heavily as the poorer margins once they see themselves out of work, those oh so wonderful new europeans replacing them at half the wage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.




×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.