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Ken Clarke Thinks A8 Immigration Hasn't Contributed To Housing Issues

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Ken Clarke on Andrew Marr BBC1 now, still giving his dinosaur views on [mass] immigration. Actually said he didn't think immigration caused issues with the UK's infrastructure like housing and hospital places.

I agree with him...

If it was immigration... but he's not differentiating (yet again) between the controlled immigration we had in the past and the mass uncontrolled immigration we have today on a hitherto unseen scale. Mass immigration is a contributary factor and people should be allowed to say so and force people to understand the difference, without getting hysterical about it.

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He didn't say anything. He's just another corporate mouthpiece.

'We need a grown-up debate.' Well, F******ing have one and stop bleating on about it.

Apparently a grown-up debate means not questioning unlimited immigration. Thanks for nothing Ken.

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If that stat floating about that 1-10 social houses being occupied by immigrants is true then issues have been caused.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2876982/Migrants-given-one-ten-council-homes-Number-foreign-tenants-living-local-authority-properties-3-2010.html

If your rich then chances are immigrants will not be competing for resources with you as getting 500+ house is not an option for most of them.

But if your poor and unskilled jobs, rentals, social housing etc etc

To be dismissive of UKIP or this issue show out of touch certain people are.

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Its almost as if both labour and conservative want UKIP to get into power so they have to deal with the mess of the next 5 years - whilst the reds and the blues can sit on the sidelines telling the proles - " See - we told you so - its only us that can be trusted to run this place..."

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B3itNOlCUAAmII7.jpg

The idea that the British people most opposed to A8 immigration are the ones who are competing most intensely with A8 migrants for resources (jobs and housing in their local area) doesn't really seem to fit with these maps.

UKIP.jpg

Edited by Dorkins

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B3itNOlCUAAmII7.jpg

The idea that the British people most opposed to A8 immigration are the ones who are competing most intensely with A8 migrants for resources (jobs and housing in their local area) doesn't really seem to fit with these maps.

UKIP.jpg

Or that first map indicates that recent immigrants don't typically vote UKIP.

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Or that first map indicates that recent immigrants don't typically vote UKIP.

Most immigrants aren't allowed to vote in most elections as they aren't UK citizens.

I still think the point stands. Most immigrants are in the parts of southern England that are well connected to London, these are also the parts of the country that have the most competition for/most expensive housing, and these are also the parts of the country least likely to vote UKIP.

You can do the same kind of analysis by age groups. Younger working age people are the ones most struggling for jobs and housing, and they are also the age group least likely to vote UKIP.

A possible explanation is that opposition to immigration isn't simply a rational response to competition for resources and is actually being caused by something else. My feeling is that it comes from people being aware that life is getting worse for them, not having a coherent explanation for why that is happening, and looking for scapegoats.

Edited by Dorkins

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If immigration is a strong cause of high house prices, then quite simply this: I will emigrate from the UK at some point during 2015. The UK has become a toxic brew of self-entitled, utterly-selfish, I'm-happy-to-see-the-country-go-down-the-swanny-just-so-long-as-my-property-goes-up-10%-a-year home owners, and a huge immigrant constituency (growing all the time). This country is not for you if you are not a home owner or aren't an immigrant from a poor country. Both these groups of people can leverage their advantage. One can sell up at a massive profit, the other rakes in massive wages (relative to their home country) and can save very well for their project in Poland or wherever they come from. If you are not in one of those groups, emigrate - this country is not for you.

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If immigration is a strong cause of high house prices, then quite simply this: I will emigrate from the UK at some point during 2015. The UK has become a toxic brew of self-entitled, utterly-selfish, I'm-happy-to-see-the-country-go-down-the-swanny-just-so-long-as-my-property-goes-up-10%-a-year home owners, and a huge immigrant constituency (growing all the time). This country is not for you if you are not a home owner or aren't an immigrant from a poor country. Both these groups of people can leverage their advantage. One can sell up at a massive profit, the other rakes in massive wages (relative to their home country) and can save very well for their project in Poland or wherever they come from. If you are not in one of those groups, emigrate - this country is not for you.

Bye!

Where are you heading for?

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B3itNOlCUAAmII7.jpg

The idea that the British people most opposed to A8 immigration are the ones who are competing most intensely with A8 migrants for resources (jobs and housing in their local area) doesn't really seem to fit with these maps.

UKIP.jpg

Or that there are no british people left to vote UKIP?

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Presumably Mr Clarke isn't denying the official ONS figures that well over 500,000 immigrants entered the UK last year and net migration was about 240,000 a year with the current net migration trend being upwards since 2012. The actual figures might even be more with some not included in the official figures.

During the debate after the Autumn Statement he said that UK debt wasn't out of control and a few weeks before that on the radio he said that only the LibLabCon knew how to run the country.

He will say anything.

Of course he has always been an extremist about the eu and seemingly at any cost to the UK people.

It's starting to become amusing waiting to hear his next crazy outburst. For sure people can expect there to be more of the 2 + 2 doesn't make 4 variety from him as the general election approaches.

Edited by billybong

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Or that there are no british people left to vote UKIP?

Maybe the areas with high numbers of UKIP voters can see what's happening elsewhere. In and around London for example.

Edited by billybong

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Or that first map indicates that recent immigrants don't typically vote UKIP.

+ 1

Seen the same argument used by politicians about London got the highest % of immigrants but a low % UKIP voters Duh,,,.. the rich are not affected so don`t care and turkeys don`t vote for Christmas but no one has ever pulled them up on it why?

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Most immigrants aren't allowed to vote in most elections as they aren't UK citizens.

I still think the point stands. Most immigrants are in the parts of southern England that are well connected to London, these are also the parts of the country that have the most competition for/most expensive housing, and these are also the parts of the country least likely to vote UKIP.

You can do the same kind of analysis by age groups. Younger working age people are the ones most struggling for jobs and housing, and they are also the age group least likely to vote UKIP.

A possible explanation is that opposition to immigration isn't simply a rational response to competition for resources and is actually being caused by something else. My feeling is that it comes from people being aware that life is getting worse for them, not having a coherent explanation for why that is happening, and looking for scapegoats.

Don't really buy your observations - a lot of UKIPs strongest support in England is in Kent and Essex. Much of it in areas very close to London like Rochester, Basildon and Thurrock containing a lot of commuters.

In a lot of cases these are former working and lower middle class Londoners who have moved out of the capital because - like Bengalis in Tower Hamlets and Indians in Southall they rather like living among people like them. Clacton is full of retired east Londoners.

Now you may not like these people much but to say they don't know about the benefits of immigration to and impact on their areas is laughable. 600,000 Londoners left the capital between 2001 and 2011 - nearly 10% of the population - mostly from the eastern an south eastern suburbs. Maybe they just voted - with their feet.

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B3itNOlCUAAmII7.jpg

The idea that the British people most opposed to A8 immigration are the ones who are competing most intensely with A8 migrants for resources (jobs and housing in their local area) doesn't really seem to fit with these maps.

'Immigrants by %' doesnt seem to specify whether they are 'new' immigrants or not.

If you take an area affected hugely by A8 immigration, like Boston, it seems a pretty clear link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_in_United_Kingdom_constituencies,_2010-5#Boston_and_Skegness

In 2001, Boston was barely 1% white but not British. By 2011 that group had risen to (officially - I have no doubt its far more in reality than that) over 12% (mostly Poles and lithuanians, now some romanians too)

http://www.neighbourhood.statistics.gov.uk/dissemination/LeadTableView.do?a=7&b=6275026&c=boston&d=13&e=15&g=6445706&i=1001x1003x1032x1004&o=362&m=0&r=1&s=1419165291295&enc=1&dsFamilyId=47

http://www.neighbourhood.statistics.gov.uk/dissemination/LeadTableView.do?a=7&b=6275026&c=boston&d=13&e=62&g=6445706&i=1001x1003x1032x1004&o=362&m=0&r=1&s=1419165278170&enc=1&dsFamilyId=2477

The white, British population stayed flat at around 54,000. As it has in most areas that are 'inexplicably' far more plagued by congestion and similar problems that were far less critical 15 years ago.

If you know Boston and the fens in general, the roads around there are terrible. adding another 12% of people is going to have a massive negative effect on congestion and quality of life. I don't care what Clarke says.

It isnt just that though. Strong support in the south west (who often actually go libdem) seems a lot to do with resentment over EU control of fishing and farming - maybe the same in Wales?

Edited by Executive Sadman

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+ 1

Seen the same argument used by politicians about London got the highest % of immigrants but a low % UKIP voters Duh,,,.. the rich are not affected so don`t care and turkeys don`t vote for Christmas but no one has ever pulled them up on it why?

There are plenty of poor British people in London - why aren't they voting for UKIP?

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Shock, horror, in a survey carried out in Calais none of the migrants trying to get in Britain said they'd vote for UKIP.

Do you realise non-British people can't vote in most elections?

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Don't really buy your observations - a lot of UKIPs strongest support in England is in Kent and Essex. Much of it in areas very close to London like Rochester, Basildon and Thurrock containing a lot of commuters.

In a lot of cases these are former working and lower middle class Londoners who have moved out of the capital because - like Bengalis in Tower Hamlets and Indians in Southall they rather like living among people like them. Clacton is full of retired east Londoners.

Now you may not like these people much but to say they don't know about the benefits of immigration to and impact on their areas is laughable. 600,000 Londoners left the capital between 2001 and 2011 - nearly 10% of the population - mostly from the eastern an south eastern suburbs. Maybe they just voted - with their feet.

Yes, it's true that the bits around the coast of the southeast of England are full of retired working/lower middle class Londoners, and these people are the core UKIP vote. But if the argument is that UKIP voters are opposed to immigration because they are the ones competing with immigrants for resources like jobs and housing, what are retired working class Londoners competing with immigrants for? They don't need jobs as they are retired and they already have a house (either owner-occupied or they get their council tenancy transferred to a coastal town).

If the UKIP vote is supposedly driven by wanting to be shielded from competition, why are the people who could plausibly be said to be competing with immigrants for jobs and housing - younger working age British people - not voting for UKIP?

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If the UKIP vote is supposedly driven by wanting to be shielded from competition, why are the people who could plausibly be said to be competing with immigrants for jobs and housing - younger working age British people - not voting for UKIP?

You tell me - they are voting Labour. I never overestimate the naivity of the young flocking to a party that:

created the housing crisis - yet apparently now are going to solve it

presided over the financial crash

created a massive deficit and debt these people will be paying off for decade

voted for top up tuition fees while in government with a 150+ majority despite promising not to in their manifesto

started an illegal war which led to over 100,000 innocent civilians dying

presided over BME young unemployment rates of 50% plus - while importing white Europeans to do jobs they should have had first crack at

I could go on - Labour should be lucky its vote is young and has very short memories. Many of those Kipper voters now used to believe in and vote Labour too!

Maybe those older voters actually care about their kids and grandkids futures - more probably than they do themselves perhaps?

Edited by MARTINX9

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Do you realise non-British people can't vote in most elections?

Do you realise that EU citizens can vote in EU elections? And the map you're showing is based on eu elections. Commonwealth citizens resident in the uk can also vote in any election.

(More typically uninformed nonsense dressed up in an air of intellectual superiority.)

Edited by richc

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