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SarahBell

Home Ownership 96% But Country Needs Charity

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http://www.samaritans-purse.org.uk/what-we-do/operation-christmas-child/

This year shoebox gifts go to Romania.

Which according to this has 96% home ownership

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_in_Europe


What a mad mixed up world we live in.

Britain has 71% home ownership. Maybe if we aim for 96% we can be as poor as Romania?

Poverty thresholds in Europe

Poverty is measured in relation to the median living standard of each country. Thus, the living standards of poor people in rich countries can not be compared to the poor in poor countries. The United Kingdom for example counts 17 % of poverty, but the poverty threshold at 60 % is 853 Euro per month and per person, against 176 Euro for Romania, which counts 21 % of poor people. The British poverty threshold is 2.8 times higher than the Romanian median income. These different thresholds are usually calculated with the purchasing power: thus they consider the differences of living standards between countries. The 10 % richest living in Romania would be among the 10 % poorest in the United Kingdom…

http://www.inequalitywatch.eu/spip.php?article99

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http://www.samaritans-purse.org.uk/what-we-do/operation-christmas-child/

This year shoebox gifts go to Romania.

Which according to this has 96% home ownership

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_in_Europe

What a mad mixed up world we live in.

Britain has 71% home ownership. Maybe if we aim for 96% we can be as poor as Romania?

Poverty thresholds in Europe

Poverty is measured in relation to the median living standard of each country. Thus, the living standards of poor people in rich countries can not be compared to the poor in poor countries. The United Kingdom for example counts 17 % of poverty, but the poverty threshold at 60 % is 853 Euro per month and per person, against 176 Euro for Romania, which counts 21 % of poor people. The British poverty threshold is 2.8 times higher than the Romanian median income. These different thresholds are usually calculated with the purchasing power: thus they consider the differences of living standards between countries. The 10 % richest living in Romania would be among the 10 % poorest in the United Kingdom…

http://www.inequalitywatch.eu/spip.php?article99

The figures would be interesting adjusted for housing and tax. I doubt there would be much difference in disposable income.

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Could it be that after the fall of communism people were just given the state owned home they lived in (and that might not actually be something to be thankful about)?

Also just because you own a house doesn't mean you're rich, Romania's GDP in 2013 was the lowest in the EU.

Have a read of this http://www.theguardian.com/housing-network/2013/may/02/housing-headache-european-nationsas many people say here - owning your home is a burden especially if you are poor and the house/block of flats is falling down.

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Also just because you own a house doesn't mean you're rich, Romania's GDP in 2013 was the lowest in the EU.

Yes it does. If you have paid-for shelter and can earn enough to feed yourself you're in a considerably better position than someone who is a couple of rent payments away from the gutter and the dubious mercy of the local council.

It's like all those studies showing that whatever percentage of the world lives on less than $1 a day. Living in a poor country may well be rubbish, but dollars are a poor way to calculate wealth. Yes, I'm sure I'd absolutely hate being a subsistence farmer without running water, but here in the UK I don't even have the option to set myself up in a slum without someone sending the bulldozers round, and I can only dream of the land required to grow my own crops.

When poor countries become 'rich' countries it just means the bankers have found another frontier to exploit and begin the financialisation process.

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Also if you factor in debt levels, most people in "rich" countries are deeply in debt (mortgages/credit cards etc) so if you did a balance sheet for any one individual the person in the "poor" country is actually better off although they probably have a terrible standard of living.

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You couldn't buiild it for that price in the UK! Building costs would be much lower in Bulgaria. Anecdotal but I have a friend in Hungary (not that far from Bulgaria), who build a 3 bed house for £30k! And he thinks he got ripped off because he is English! :P

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96% home ownership means 96% of houses are lived in by the person who owns the house, not that 96% of the population owns residential property. It tells you very little about how well housed the population is. If there were only 6 million 3 bed semis in the UK and all were occupied by the owner then we would have 100% home ownership but the population would be massively underhoused at 10 people per house.

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96% home ownership means 96% of houses are lived in by the person who owns the house, not that 96% of the population owns residential property. It tells you very little about how well housed the population is. If there were only 6 million 3 bed semis in the UK and all were occupied by the owner then we would have 100% home ownership but the population would be massively underhoused at 10 people per house.

Don't worry Dorkins, HMO LLs are trying to make it happen!

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You couldn't buiild it for that price in the UK! Building costs would be much lower in Bulgaria. Anecdotal but I have a friend in Hungary (not that far from Bulgaria), who build a 3 bed house for £30k! And he thinks he got ripped off because he is English! :P

Until recently I lived in Hungary. Sounds about right. You can get a 3-bed house in a nice village for about £18k or so.

The difficulty is though that salaries are VERY low, eg teachers get about £300-£400 a month net, but costs of food, petrol, clothes etc are the same as the UK. Utilities are a bit cheaper but still a lot - heating costs take up the majority of the pay packet.

It's also rather difficult to set up in business on your own, though not impossible.

Edited by Austin Allegro

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The incomes are relatively low in Romania but if two in the household are working and you own your own home then it's not too bad. According to eurostat the average size of a Romanian household is about 2.9 (and seemingly falling as the population is falling and they're still building extra housing units). Poland 2.8. Hungary 2.6. UK 2.3.


Apparently in Romania there are about 8.5 million housing units for a population of about 20 million or so - the population has been falling since about 1991 and increasingly so in recent years as people leave for "more prosperous" areas. That would put the average household size currently at about 2.4 (and seemingly falling) which contradicts the eurostat figure above of 2.9.

Romania has been building about 40,000 housing units per year which proportional to the populations is a similar rate to the UK's current rate even though Romania's population is falling quite rapidly but the UK's population is increasing quite rapidly.

The fertility rate in Romania is about 1.25 per female but that more than doubles when they're in the UK to about 2.9. Poland is similar at about 1.3 increasing to about 2.1 when in the UK. The UK's fertility rate is about 1.9 and that'll include immigrant births as well. Based on eurostat and ONS figures.

Apparently Romanian unemployment is about 7%. That's possibly a fairly accurate figure? as they won't include all the statistical manipulations to spin the figures like the UK's unemployment figures.



http://

epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php/File:Average_household_size,_2011.png

http://

www.globalpropertyguide.com/Europe/Romania

http://

family.jrank.org/pages/1421/Romania-Family-Structure.html

http://

epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php/File:Total_fertility_rate,_1960%E2%80%932012_%28live_births_per_woman%29_YB14.png

http://

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2551531/Romanian-women-highest-fertility-rate-EU-experts-say-Britains-support-children-acts-draw.html

http://

www.tradingeconomics.com/romania/population

So in general the Romanian statistics aren't that much different to the UK's - although Romanian home ownership is far higher than in the UK and maybe real unemployment is significantly lower than in the UK (emphasis on the word real). Costs of essentials are similar to the UK but wages are significantly lower (cost of essentials excluding housing as so many Romanians own their own home and that significantly mitigates the cost of essentials) and possibly the quality of their housing is lower as well (hard though that might seem considering the quality of UK housing).

House prices are a small fraction of UK house prices and the UK is about 3 times as densely populated as Romania even though their land areas are very similar.

Even so there is a big difference in the published UK/Romanian wages (and presumably the benefits and tax credits system as well? and likely they have much less of the debt used to support UK wages?) but that is at least partially mitigated by such a high home ownership. So for sure it will make sense (for some of them) in those circumstances to work in the UK for a while and compete with UK workers and of course then some will decide to stay on longer - and according to the Romanian President on Radio 4 that's also good for Romania as it reduces Romanian unemployment, their benefit queue and their balance of payments.


http://

rt.com/uk/185428-romania-britain-immigration-economy/

Edited by billybong

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