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aussieboy

House Prices Driven By Capex (property Ladder)

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Apologies if this has been discussed before, but having last night watched those loony twins drop GBP 130k (not including 5 months of their "free" labour) on renovating that barn on Property Ladder, I was wondering whether some of the price gains we have seen in the last few years may have been driven by "true" increases in the value (i.e. quality) of property.

On a smaller scale, the value of each trip to B&Q made over the years by me and Mrs aussieboy and what seems to be the rest of the home owning population must add up.

Are there any metrics available which strip out the capex effect?

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Sorry to be brutal........ but most of the country ( maybe you?) have been spending your money on shit.

How long is that shiny plastic power shower made in China going to actually last? How long before the veneer starts to peel off those chipboard kitchen units? Just how much will that badly fitted ( illegal ) wood flooring warp by?

Mostly people have been doing a cosmetic job, no long lasting improvements. A cheap power shower, chipboard kitchen units, cheapest wood flooring per sq metre and a slap pf magnolia does nothing at all to improve the quality of the housing stock.

In fact in terms of quality IMO it is declining.

I have had this conversation with my dappy cousin who thinks that because she's spent £1500 on a Homebase set of kitchen units that this will add at least the same amount to the value of the house. :rolleyes:

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Funnily enough, I posted something similar saying that high house prices has encourage people to invest in houses and therefore improve the overall quality of housing in the country. The first reply was somebody agressively disagreeing and stating how stupid I was.

But yes, all your improvements will either improve the quality and therefore value of the house, or stop the value of the house from deteriorating. People think houses only go up in value. Try spending nothing on your house for 15 years and see if it still has gone up in value.

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Yes, I agree that quality is going down due to mainly cosmetic changes. This is actually going to be a big problem when coming to buy a house in the coming years. What may look lovely might actually be pretty rubbish in terms of quality.

I can see myself having to swot up what are the quality brands re bathrooms, kitchens, etc, and also learning a bit more about the structural side of things as I feel these make-over programmes, MDF and plasterboard will be have a lot to answer for.

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Sorry to be brutal........ but most of the country ( maybe you?) have been spending your money on shit.

How long is that shiny plastic power shower made in China going to actually last? How long before the veneer starts to peel off those chipboard kitchen units? Just how much will that badly fitted ( illegal ) wood flooring warp by?

Mostly people have been doing a cosmetic job, no long lasting improvements. A cheap power shower, chipboard kitchen units, cheapest wood flooring per sq metre and a slap pf magnolia does nothing at all to improve the quality of the housing stock.

In fact in terms of quality IMO it is declining.

I have had this conversation with my dappy cousin who thinks that because she's spent £1500 on a Homebase set of kitchen units that this will add at least the same amount to the value of the house. :rolleyes:

Isn't just that superficial stuff, mate, look at the fundamental build quality.

[rant]

Last weekend here in Oz I went to look at some new townhouses (terraces). I noticed one group where I had actually been interested enough by the ads to get the brochures when they were being sold off the plan. Now they're being built.

Aerated concrete cladding over a wood frame, which is perhaps not as bad as it sounds; 'brick veneer' is quite normal in Australia so when this is rendered and painted it won't appear unusual and will probably have a bit better sound/heat insulation.

But

No masonry at all in the party walls, just 2 sets of framing sandwiching fireproof panels about an inch thick. In effect 2 interior walls butted against each other. You're going to hear your neighbour breathing :angry: :angry: !!

All to save (by my estimate) a lousy 500 bucks in a 309K dwelling!!

Oh, and single-glazed windows facing a moderately busy road!!

These are going to be the slums of the 2030's, without a doubt.

[/rant]

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For those who like to go looking there are, perodically, reports on the state of repair of the UK housing stock.

The last one I heard mentioned was, iirc, earlier this year.

Again, iirc, the report said there was a lot of stuff in poor condition.

The other stastistic somewhere that is interesting, is the projection for how long properties will have to be utilised at current rates of replacement.

I can remember that in the 80s it was something like 400 years.

The thing about most buildings is that they can carry on in a pretty poor state.

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modern houses are rubbish..

New builds are utter cack..

We know this..

and the morron fraternity prepared to get themselves in massive Interest only debt that they can't afford are quite happy to pay it..

look at four year old new builds..

damp, fixtures dropping of..

Banisters in a £380,000 town house in exeter were glued together.. and failed in a year.. the stairs are moving away from the walls and dropping the plaster they were never realy attached to..

Too many fools too easily parted with money they can never repay.

Interest only means you cannot repay what you ahve borrowed..

It means nothing else

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May have a point in a way. You bears are always on about how there is no shortage of housing in the UK. I would argue there IS a shortage of property that people actually want to live in. Peoples expectations have changed over the year especially when it comes to layout and design thanks to Beeny and co. A lot of the UK housing stock is rubbish and has not been replaced much over the years. Also there are only so many areas worth living in either because they are safe or near work.

Edited by mercsl

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Hmm... the debate seems to be splitting into two discussions.

The first is on the quality of new builds vs old. No arguments there: the problems with paper thin walls poor quality materials are a matter of fact rather than debate.

However, with regard to home improvements, I think that it is easy to forget how close we are to the age of lino, chip board and formica. Not to mention lovely advocado bathroom suites with nylon carpetting. Lower labour costs have lead to much higher specs in the main rooms that suck up renovation costs: the kitchen and the bathroom. This applies to both to fixtures and fittings and to white goods, which are now ludicrously affordable.

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I think that it is easy to forget how close we are to the age of lino, chip board and formica. Not to mention lovely advocado bathroom suites with nylon carpetting.

Aussie, to us, today, lino, formica etc seem horrible. When people were putting down lino etc they weren't thinking "yeah lets put some really horrible shit flooring in, oh and a reconstituted breeze block gas fireplace, that'll really devalue the place" They, like you, thought they were adding value to their property, because that was the "in thing", and the problem is fasions change. And they will continue to do so.

20 years hence future generations will most likely hate our tastes as much as we have tastes of the 70's today.

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Hmm... the debate seems to be splitting into two discussions.

"The first is on the quality of new builds vs old. No arguments there: the problems with paper thin walls poor quality materials are a matter of fact rather than debate."

I disagree - and I've been an occasional developer for over 25 years and have a son who has his own building business so I do have a modicum of practical experience. IMO, build quality, at least of the main structure, is far better now than at any time since the war if, for no other reason, that we/they have to comply with ever improving building regulations.

Just a quick example - I recently completeed a large 2 story extension on to a 1980's build (which planning officers visited at every stage to make sure we were in full compliance with BRs) - no scrimping on the main structure is allowed believe me! After completion you could bring the whole house up to 20 deg C and then switch off the central heating. The old part of the house would loose it's heat perhaps three times as fast as the new build - both had DG by the way. But it's not just heat and sound insulation it's electrical safety, quality of foundations and much more.

IMO. if you do want to critisise building quality just look at the estate rubbish thrown up in the 60s, 70s and 80s.

Edit - try here http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/g...1888239701.html

Edited by ILikeBigBoobs

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ILikeBigBoobs,

The operative phrase in your post is 'since the war'.

The last house I stayed in in the UK was built in 1830, as a farm labourer's cottage so I doubt it won any awards for magnificence of construction. Added to a couple of times over the last 40-50 years.

I can vouch from personal experience a fairly loud stereo on one side of the party wall could only just be heard on the other side.

I haven't lived in any house in Australia that I would expect to still be standing after 175 years, let alone be livable.

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Apologies if this has been discussed before, but having last night watched those loony twins drop GBP 130k (not including 5 months of their "free" labour) on renovating that barn on Property Ladder, I was wondering whether some of the price gains we have seen in the last few years may have been driven by "true" increases in the value (i.e. quality) of property.

On a smaller scale, the value of each trip to B&Q made over the years by me and Mrs aussieboy and what seems to be the rest of the home owning population must add up.

Are there any metrics available which strip out the capex effect?

I think at the upper end of the market that might be the case but one woman's £100k makeover is another woman's skip contents a couple of years later.

The quality issue is likely to arise most in new builds a lot of which have been completed to a price rather than a standard. This is also true of many speculatively-bought Spanish apartments and the bottom has fallen out of that market. A lot of new-builds will either look very shabby or will have huge service charges to compensate for the low quality of the original materials.

In a bubble however any old trash will sell - the price is generally paid on the downswing when to incur costs "doing up" your house is likely to lead to you having spent more than your house is worth. At that point a house in good condition will more likely sell.

The Fox

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  • 302 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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