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TheCountOfNowhere

More Tory Cuts

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I know a lot of people like to pretend that there have been no real government cuts.....

I am on the committee for my eldest child's play group. They are a traditional play group with 2 x 3 hour sessions rather than a 7am-7pm nursery.

You will have heard the government boasting of how they are "helping hardworking families" by subsidising early years education.

This is what actually happened:

Government funds 15 hours of childcare for 3 year olds.

Government sets ratio of childcare staff to children

Government sets standards of the type of building the playgroup must operate for

Government sets minimum wage for staff

Under the previous government these things all balanced out so that the playgroup broke even when run as a charity with all staff on minimum wage with no benefits.

The coalition then increased the number of "free hours" people were entitled to claim but cut the amount they paid to playgroups by 20% so now the playgroup is obliged to take people on when they lose money for every child they look after.

This is killing traditional play groups and only benefits the large chain nurseries who have lower accommodation costs and can charge a higher rate for the other 20 hours a week of their staff time.

The cuts are real they are just hurting the poor and powerless.

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I know a lot of people like to pretend that there have been no real government cuts.....

I am on the committee for my eldest child's play group. They are a traditional play group with 2 x 3 hour sessions rather than a 7am-7pm nursery.

You will have heard the government boasting of how they are "helping hardworking families" by subsidising early years education.

This is what actually happened:

Government funds 15 hours of childcare for 3 year olds.

Government sets ratio of childcare staff to children

Government sets standards of the type of building the playgroup must operate for

Government sets minimum wage for staff

Under the previous government these things all balanced out so that the playgroup broke even when run as a charity with all staff on minimum wage with no benefits.

The coalition then increased the number of "free hours" people were entitled to claim but cut the amount they paid to playgroups by 20% so now the playgroup is obliged to take people on when they lose money for every child they look after.

This is killing traditional play groups and only benefits the large chain nurseries who have lower accommodation costs and can charge a higher rate for the other 20 hours a week of their staff time.

The cuts are real they are just hurting the poor and powerless.

What I hear is....blah blah blah....you should pay 60-70% tax per year so I can have free child care....BLAH BLAH BLAH.

Pay for it yourself and cut my taxes.

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Yeah... it's the people who need help with child care so that both parents can continue to (have to) work in order to afford to live in even the smallest of slave boxes that are definitely the problem....

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The coalition then increased the number of "free hours" people were entitled to claim but cut the amount they paid to playgroups by 20% so now the playgroup is obliged to take people on when they lose money for every child they look after.

Thanks for that info. My Mrs works at a couple of nurseries and has been wondering why they have been stripping costs down to the absolute minimum. Latest practice is zero-hours contracts (so no holiday/sick pay), calling in people for 1 hour at a time, getting them to pay their own training costs and doing the paperwork parts of the job at home for 50p/hour.

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I know a lot of people like to pretend that there have been no real government cuts.....

I am on the committee for my eldest child's play group. They are a traditional play group with 2 x 3 hour sessions rather than a 7am-7pm nursery.

You will have heard the government boasting of how they are "helping hardworking families" by subsidising early years education.

This is what actually happened:

Government funds 15 hours of childcare for 3 year olds.

Government sets ratio of childcare staff to children

Government sets standards of the type of building the playgroup must operate for

Government sets minimum wage for staff

Under the previous government these things all balanced out so that the playgroup broke even when run as a charity with all staff on minimum wage with no benefits.

The coalition then increased the number of "free hours" people were entitled to claim but cut the amount they paid to playgroups by 20% so now the playgroup is obliged to take people on when they lose money for every child they look after.

This is killing traditional play groups and only benefits the large chain nurseries who have lower accommodation costs and can charge a higher rate for the other 20 hours a week of their staff time.

The cuts are real they are just hurting the poor and powerless.

They are giving 15 hours of free "childcare" a week to 2 year olds whose parents are claiming certain benefits such as income support. Why do people on income support need childcare if they are not working?

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They are giving 15 hours of free "childcare" a week to 2 year olds whose parents are claiming certain benefits such as income support. Why do people on income support need childcare if they are not working?

So they can go to Starbucks for coffee where they can use their iPads on the free WiFi?

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What I hear is....blah blah blah....you should pay 60-70% tax per year so I can have free child care....BLAH BLAH BLAH.

Pay for it yourself and cut my taxes.

I guess you're not going to be volunteering to play Santa this year, then?

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They are giving 15 hours of free "childcare" a week to 2 year olds whose parents are claiming certain benefits such as income support. Why do people on income support need childcare if they are not working?

Because it's good for the children?

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What I hear is....blah blah blah....you should pay 60-70% tax per year so I can have free child care....BLAH BLAH BLAH.

Pay for it yourself and cut my taxes.

When did I mention wanting anything for free?

My complaint is that the government is forcing childcare providers to offer childcare at less than cost price.

Either offer it at cost or not at all. The staff working in these facilities should not be the ones to suffer because the government wants something to boast about.

Edited by Timak

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When did I mention wanting anything for free?

My complaint is that the government is forcing childcare providers to offer childcare at less than cost price.

Either offer it at cost or not at all. The staff working in these facilities should not be the ones to suffer because the government wants something to boast about.

I think the issue here is that Politicians cant think through anything other than how to get a vote.

I have worked with Day Nurseries for years, and have posted about very high staff levels in the public sector ones.

The issue is standards were introduced some time ago following scandals ( seems they still go on in spite of regulations, surprise surprise), knee jerk responses for the childrens safety.

So, the nurseries go to the expense of meeting the standards designed to protect children, then the Government cuts the funding.

But that is the way with Government...pay people to think things out for them, then it all goes to shite and they swing the sword later.

This is the price we pay for not knowing what our politicians stand for, indeed, telling us that is the last thing they want to do. So who gets in but the ****-covering tosspots who hide behind enquiries and favoured "experts".

Meanwhile, day nurseries are closed, staff are made redundant and the criminals still assault and abuse their charges.

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To the OP - I know there have been some harsh backlash replies, but the question you should be asking is why does the childcare industry need/deserve the government taxpayers money/your grandchildrens debt mountain increase to fund 15 hours of childcare.

  • Partially because of Paedogeddon meaning that people can't look after nippers any more without a mountain of paperwork, licenses, and Padeochecks (that'll be 150 quid please)
  • Partially because the cost of housing is so high that both parents are forced to try to find work to cover the cost (and also staff need to be paid more in the nurseries),
  • Partially because the government wanted to find a way of making those mothers left to go out to work. This can also be called a bribe.
  • Partially because the free money on offer has increased bad management in existing/new providers

As usual, expansion of the state has NOT made things better. You should not be complaining about 'cuts', but the two items above.

Edited by wherebee

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To the OP - I know there have been some harsh backlash replies, but the question you should be asking is why does the childcare industry need/deserve the government taxpayers money/your grandchildrens debt mountain increase to fund 15 hours of childcare.

  • Partially because of Paedogeddon meaning that people can't look after nippers any more without a mountain of paperwork, licenses, and Padeochecks (that'll be 150 quid please)
  • Partially because the cost of housing is so high that both parents are forced to try to find work to cover the cost (and also staff need to be paid more in the nurseries),
  • Partially because the government wanted to find a way of making those mothers left to go out to work. This can also be called a bribe.
  • Partially because the free money on offer has increased bad management in existing/new providers

As usual, expansion of the state has NOT made things better. You should not be complaining about 'cuts', but the two items above.

Yes, I know all that. People have been programmed to think it's normal for both parents go out to work and for them to PAY someone to look after THEIR child.

This is not a good state of affairs.

It is bad for society, children, parents, everyone.

The british government is not working for our good and we need a real change. UKIP is not the answer.

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Yes, I know all that. People have been programmed to think it's normal for both parents go out to work and for them to PAY someone to look after THEIR child.

This is not a good state of affairs.

It is bad for society, children, parents, everyone.

The british government is not working for our good and we need a real change. UKIP is not the answer.

Does not compute! :D

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Yes, I know all that. People have been programmed to think it's normal for both parents go out to work and for them to PAY someone to look after THEIR child.

This is not a good state of affairs.

It is bad for society, children, parents, everyone.

The british government is not working for our good and we need a real change. UKIP is not the answer.

This is the issue with equal pay.

Without duality of income and a low livings cost environment both parents need to work.

We want our daughters to earn as much as our sons whilst also yearning for their offspring to have a domiciled parent.

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There are still a huge number of skivers who could work but choose not to. I know at least 6 who live near me. They are able to smoke and drink every day and in some cases run cars. One in particular who has conned his doctor into signing him off as disabled has just bought a boat and goes fishing most days when the weather is good! He has a brand new car on the motabilty scheme! Yet can pull his boat up the slipway by hand on its trailer!

I pay far far too much tax and I see most of it being wasted.

As for the nurseries go - if you cant afford children don't have them, and certainly don't expect me to pay for them!

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I know a lot of people like to pretend that there have been no real government cuts.....

I do not consider there to be any cuts to government expenditure. Any cutbacks in some areas are being offset by increased expenditure in others. I don't doubt for a second what you say about cutbacks in childcare is correct but only today the government has agreed to increase its expenditure in flood defenses. If i decide to stop spending £25 every fortnight on watching a football match but then I decide to spend the same amount watching a rugby match instead I am not making any cutbacks to me expenditure I am just redistributing the money elsewhere and spending it in other areas. This is what I believe is happening at the moment and the rate the national debt is increasing and the fact the deficit doesn't seem to be reducing much seems to back this up.

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Hmm, I don't object to subbed pre-school child care for kids 2 up (andthats an importnant point - older than 2 years) a number reasons.

One, its good for the kids, even better if it gets them away from dysfuncal parents and get them ready for school.

Two, it only lasts for 2 years.

There have been cuts but they have been limited a focussed. I don;t regard them as cuts, more like a slight rolling back of Gordon Browns massive 2002-2007 splurge. The local councils have been noticable by the numbers of reductions. Its pretty damming of councils when you realise how much watse and driss are in the councils. At the moment, there's a local paper campaign to carry on paying for a clique of youth workers. The campaign is probably run by the workers or the 10 kids who use the service.

There have been noticable cuts to legal aid. Not a problem as its really solicitors aid.

What I want cut is tax credits and housing benefit.

I'm OK with a small - say 50-100 month top of for people on low incomes working 40-80 hours.

a 500+ top for people working 16h - fck-off!

Housing benefit must be aligned to local wages - max payout of 50% of post median wages.

Max of 3 bed rooms.

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What I hear is....blah blah blah....you should pay 60-70% tax per year so I can have free child care....BLAH BLAH BLAH.

Pay for it yourself and cut my taxes.

The 15 hours per week for children over three is nothing different to the nursery sessions I attended at my local school in the 70's which was three hours every morning x5 days. This has always been provided as it is an introduction to education and social interaction. My child does 15 hours a a week but because she does three five hour sessions the government covers nine and we cover six as they only cover three hours per session. 15 hours free so called childcare was available to the boomers when there kids were young so don't worry, the boomers didn't miss out on something we currently get.

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There are still a huge number of skivers who could work but choose not to. I know at least 6 who live near me. They are able to smoke and drink every day and in some cases run cars. One in particular who has conned his doctor into signing him off as disabled has just bought a boat and goes fishing most days when the weather is good! He has a brand new car on the motabilty scheme! Yet can pull his boat up the slipway by hand on its trailer!

I pay far far too much tax and I see most of it being wasted.

As for the nurseries go - if you cant afford children don't have them, and certainly don't expect me to pay for them!

I'm always amazed at how much folk know about other people to be honest.

I don't even know what my family do and don't earn or what they do, let alone anyone else around me.

Are these just assumptions, local rumours, or do you just hang about with skivers enough to genuinely know their financial ins and outs/health concerns etc?

I have a couple of friends who do similar (it's called "early retirement" apparently) , but they made a bundle on HPI and so simply choose not to work now. Most have BTLs and so collect on the younger generations benefits. And often mutter about that generation in a negative fashion. I honestly don't think any of them know how lucky they (we) were.

Edited by byron78

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There are still a huge number of skivers who could work but choose not to. I know at least 6 who live near me. They are able to smoke and drink every day and in some cases run cars. One in particular who has conned his doctor into signing him off as disabled has just bought a boat and goes fishing most days when the weather is good! He has a brand new car on the motabilty scheme! Yet can pull his boat up the slipway by hand on its trailer!

I pay far far too much tax and I see most of it being wasted.

As for the nurseries go - if you cant afford children don't have them, and certainly don't expect me to pay for them!

why work when you dont have to?

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