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Russia's Warplanes Are Risking Passenger Jets, Warns Nato Chief

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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/nato-secretary-general-russias-warplanes-are-risking-passenger-jets-9863937.html

Russian warplanes are risking the security of civilian passengers as they play a dangerous game designed to test Western air defences, according to Nato’s secretary general.

The Russian bombers, which fly over international and European airspace, do not follow agreed safety procedures, designed to minimise the risk of collisions, Jens Stoltenberg has said.

Nato jets have intercepted more than 100 Russian aircraft this year alone, compared to 13 similar such incidents in 2013.

Mr Stoltenberg told The Telegraph: "The problem is that many of the Russian pilots don’t turn on their transponders, they don’t file their flight plans and they don’t communicate with civilian air traffic control.

“This poses a risk to civilian air traffic and therefore this is a problem, especially when the Russian activity increases – because they have more Russian military planes in the air."

Well it would make defending out airspace much simpler if the Russians would send us their bomber routes in advance. You can't believe they don't want to cooperate in this way.

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Russian military jets will have radar and passive sensors such as IR. They can see the civilian planes from distance, but the civilian planes don't have such equipment, and have to rely on air traffic control's radar (if in range).

If a jumbo relies on visual sighting, that's probably at best 10 miles. But a military jet will have radar, and that can be effective for a 200 mile range. A collision is probably unlikely as the jumbos have a huge signature on radar.

It's time to dig out the old EF2000 pc combat flight simulator - it predicted the future, 20 years ago!

ef2000-image610579.jpg

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Russian military jets will have radar and passive sensors such as IR. They can see the civilian planes from distance, but the civilian planes don't have such equipment, and have to rely on air traffic control's radar (if in range).

If a jumbo relies on visual sighting, that's probably at best 10 miles. But a military jet will have radar, and that can be effective for a 200 mile range. A collision is probably unlikely as the jumbos have a huge signature on radar.

MH 17 was easily spotted by a military.

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MH17 was thought to be shot down by a ground based SAM, which has much shorter range radar. The higher you are, the further you can detect.

m02013061300005.jpg

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The Independent and the London Evening Standard are owned by a Russian oligarch who is very critical of Putin, so you would expect to find these kind of articles in there...

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MH17 was thought to be shot down by a ground based SAM, which has much shorter range radar. The higher you are, the further you can detect.

m02013061300005.jpg

I said "a military" deliberately.

As we dont actually know which military shot it down.

But, proof, if proof were needed, Military vehicles likely to bump into other aircraft are more than capable of seeing them...they have to, a to avoid detection and b to track and attack.

EDIT: I see what you are saying.

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Someone does not grasp the point of 'testing' another nation's defences.

No doubt the West plays fair and file flight plans and keep our transponders on when we overfly Russia on intelligence missions.

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Russian military jets will have radar and passive sensors such as IR. They can see the civilian planes from distance, but the civilian planes don't have such equipment, and have to rely on air traffic control's radar (if in range).

If a jumbo relies on visual sighting, that's probably at best 10 miles. But a military jet will have radar, and that can be effective for a 200 mile range. A collision is probably unlikely as the jumbos have a huge signature on radar.

A commercial pilot recently told me their fleet has some form of warning system, perhaps TCAS - Traffic Collision Avoidance System - which detects other aircraft, sends out alarm to pilots, and might also offer them avoidance options.

He said he thinks it's about 6 years since it became standard in Europe, some aeroplanes retrofitted with it, after a push by whatever the US air authority is called.. FAA? Not sure how sensitive it is to smaller craft like 1-pilot smaller military jets. I wasn't taking it all in, but he also said something about 'transponders' signalling position to other aircraft or ground control.

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'The problem is that many of the Russian pilots don’t turn on their transponders, they don’t file their flight plans'

LOL! Is this a joke?

They really expect the Russian to file 'flight plans'? LOL?

They must be laughing so hard in Moscow ...

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A commercial pilot recently told me their fleet has some form of warning system, perhaps TCAS - Traffic Collision Avoidance System - which detects other aircraft, sends out alarm to pilots, and might also offer them avoidance options.

He said he thinks it's about 6 years since it became standard in Europe, some aeroplanes retrofitted with it, after a push by whatever the US air authority is called.. FAA? Not sure how sensitive it is to smaller craft like 1-pilot smaller military jets. I wasn't taking it all in, but he also said something about 'transponders' signalling position to other aircraft or ground control.

It relies on the other aircraft having a transponder fitted - otherwise its of no use at all. To be of any real use, the transponder needs to be an altitude reporting one (Mode C) or Mode S.

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It relies on the other aircraft having a transponder fitted - otherwise its of no use at all. To be of any real use, the transponder needs to be an altitude reporting one (Mode C) or Mode S.

Ahh really; I will take your word for it... it also makes sense too. Probably unlikely TCAS (or eqiv) also comes with any radar functionality for commercial aircraft.

My first-officer pal is on duty at the moment, somewhere in Europe, positioning for his next flight... earning money for his rent and to scratch a few hundred pounds into savings vs forever HPI.... I will drop him an email with this info to see if he has a response. It had been this Russian warplane threat to other aircraft we had been discussing last time I saw him, although I did not tell him they were routinely turning their transponders off. Have to rely on the military aircraft with their radar systems staying clear, although those drones another matter/risk.

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Ahh really; I will take your word for it... it also makes sense too. Probably unlikely TCAS (or eqiv) also comes with any radar functionality for commercial aircraft

TCAS is solely based on Secondary Surveillance Radar transmission/reception - this is entirely transponder based and isn't what is commonly referred to as radar - that's Primary Radar. SSR is digital information transmitted/received by the aircraft transponder.

It simply produces what are known as Traffic Advisories (i.e. a warning that traffic is around) or Resolution Advisories (i.e climb or descend to avoid collision - if 2 aircraft fitted with the correct equipment it will issue one with a climb and the other with a descend). These RAs also take precedence over any ATC instructions the aircraft has been given.

The quality of the info is based on the transponders fitted. Mode A simply transmits a four digit squawk code, Mode C gives altitude information, and Mode S is the best - giving all sorts of extra info. Mode S is becoming the standard and is now mandated in almost all EU countries controlled airspace.

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