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Lbc Radio Now - Anti Btl Phone In

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James O'Brien now on LBC, based on CML press release of BTL lending up this quarter, is doing a phone-in on BTL. His stance is anti, especially as he sold his own one as politically against it and his wife apparenly has never forgiven him

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He's been pretty spot-on to be honest.

I'm not against the ethics of BTL, but if you've got a spare £50k, why wouldn't you stick it into BTL? Rentable return and capital appreciation. Your only money would be lucky to beat inflation in the bank.

No chance of BTL being taxed, too many MPs playing the game.

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He's been pretty spot-on to be honest.

I'm not against the ethics of BTL, but if you've got a spare £50k, why wouldn't you stick it into BTL? Rentable return and capital appreciation. Your only money would be lucky to beat inflation in the bank.

No chance of BTL being taxed, too many MPs playing the game.

Same old

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O'Brien used to have BTL and he often mentions having regretted getting rid of it.

He seems to be saying that nothing should be done to alter the PRS and BTL.

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He's been pretty spot-on to be honest.

I'm not against the ethics of BTL, but if you've got a spare £50k, why wouldn't you stick it into BTL? Rentable return and capital appreciation. Your only money would be lucky to beat inflation in the bank.

No chance of BTL being taxed, too many MPs playing the game.

The risks:

1. Concentration risk - your primary residence and your investment assets are in the same asset class. They are probably in the same or similar areas geographically as well.

2. Liquidity risk - yields should always be higher on illiquid assets to compensate (are they?)

3. Opportunity cost

I personally have no investment assets in property (except via companies in diversified portfolio of stocks) because I view a primary residence as being enough exposure to this particular asset class.

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If the trend continues as it is private ownership will be like council housing is now. Almost impossible to buy with the only real alternative being private rental.

The system needs urgent reform and this can be achieved by taxing landlords who will then return the property to owner occupiers.

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He's been pretty spot-on to be honest.

I'm not against the ethics of BTL, but if you've got a spare £50k, why wouldn't you stick it into BTL? Rentable return and capital appreciation. Your only money would be lucky to beat inflation in the bank.

No chance of BTL being taxed, too many MPs playing the game.

Can you buy a BTL for £50K? If so it may be sensible, but if the £50K is just a 20% deposit and you're taking out a £200K mortgage on a depreciating asset, I think not!

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All these "ordinary" people ringing crying, it's my pension, what else can I do because they destroyed private pensions etc? What makes them so sure that "they" won't equally tax their BTLs once "they" have worked out a way of protecting their own interests. I am sure it will happen at some point.

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All these "ordinary" people ringing crying, it's my pension, what else can I do because they destroyed private pensions etc? What makes them so sure that "they" won't equally tax their BTLs once "they" have worked out a way of protecting their own interests. I am sure it will happen at some point.

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The risks:

1. Concentration risk - your primary residence and your investment assets are in the same asset class. They are probably in the same or similar areas geographically as well.

2. Liquidity risk - yields should always be higher on illiquid assets to compensate (are they?)

3. Opportunity cost

I personally have no investment assets in property (except via companies in diversified portfolio of stocks) because I view a primary residence as being enough exposure to this particular asset class.

This^.....eggs and baskets and all that, one is more than enough for anyone.....anyway btl is yesterday's good news. ;)

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Guest Jemmy Button

Yup, I remember hearing O'Brien stating on his radio show that all renters were social failures...the guy is one huge monumental pr1ck.

Edited by Jemmy Button

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He does that whilst trying to make it sound like he's being sarcastic however if he bothered to listen back to himself he'd realize it comes across wrongly.

Like many he argues against climate change yet jets off on holidays when his daughters are off school.

When a caller supports his views he'll accept anecdotal arguments/evidence but if someone opposes his position he flatly refuses and even dismisses and evidence as politically sponsored.

Immigration is a great one to hear him supporting. He really wears liberal blinkers.

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He's been pretty spot-on to be honest.

I'm not against the ethics of BTL, but if you've got a spare £50k, why wouldn't you stick it into BTL? Rentable return and capital appreciation. Your only money would be lucky to beat inflation in the bank.

No chance of BTL being taxed, too many MPs playing the game.

Still amazes me people come up with this sort of statement.

Why wouldn't I stick money in BTL?

Because it does not make money FFS! The yield is too fkcing low to make financial sense. Why do you think the likes of B+B went bust?

Banks are very reluctant to lend to BTL. The idiots have only recently woken up to the risk BTL involve.

There are not an infinite supply of renters willing to pay mortgage cost + 20%

The rental property will always need maintenance, much more than OO.

A lot of tenants will struggle to pay rent - there is no point suing someone with no money.

The letting agent will scam you at every point.

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Still amazes me people come up with this sort of statement.

Why wouldn't I stick money in BTL?

Because it does not make money FFS! The yield is too fkcing low to make financial sense. Why do you think the likes of B+B went bust?

Banks are very reluctant to lend to BTL. The idiots have only recently woken up to the risk BTL involve.

There are not an infinite supply of renters willing to pay mortgage cost + 20%

The rental property will always need maintenance, much more than OO.

A lot of tenants will struggle to pay rent - there is no point suing someone with no money.

The letting agent will scam you at every point.

Yeah, but, all those expenses are tax deductables they will say.

I met a few businessmen who claimed they had a "tax problem".

The problem was they had spent it.

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Still amazes me people come up with this sort of statement.

Why wouldn't I stick money in BTL?

Because it does not make money FFS! The yield is too fkcing low to make financial sense. Why do you think the likes of B+B went bust?

Banks are very reluctant to lend to BTL. The idiots have only recently woken up to the risk BTL involve.

There are not an infinite supply of renters willing to pay mortgage cost + 20%

The rental property will always need maintenance, much more than OO.

A lot of tenants will struggle to pay rent - there is no point suing someone with no money.

The letting agent will scam you at every point.

I dislike BTL for various reasons, but it has a lot going for it.

It allows an investment in an asset that over time has risen in excess of inflation and produces an income that also tends to rise with inflation over time.

It has provided people with a lot of equity in their property a way of converting it into wealth as a deposit on a BTL. There is almost no other way for ordinary people to make a large amount of money from doing very little.

Banks have been piling into BTL over the past couple of years, not becoming more cautious, as you suggest.

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Yeah, but, all those expenses are tax deductables they will say.

I met a few businessmen who claimed they had a "tax problem".

The problem was they had spent it.

You can claim a bit back for repairs and stuff.

There's no tax back for voids, which are the biggest problems for most rentals.

The repairs allowance will not cover the cost o picking up a scoial tenant who the council did not want.

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I dislike BTL for various reasons, but it has a lot going for it.

It allows an investment in an asset that over time has risen in excess of inflation and produces an income that also tends to rise with inflation over time.

It has provided people with a lot of equity in their property a way of converting it into wealth as a deposit on a BTL. There is almost no other way for ordinary people to make a large amount of money from doing very little.

Banks have been piling into BTL over the past couple of years, not becoming more cautious, as you suggest.

Disagree.

As a rough rule, property rises with wages. In the UK, prices are ahead but I expect the price to fall back. A lot.

The price of BTL maintenance in the medium to long is more than people think, especially when you might have to pay for the labour rather than doing it yourself over a longer period of time.

Most BTL of the post 2000 type is IO only. There is very little equity.

Banks have not been piling in; they've been running away. Banks are deperately trying to shutdown their post-2008 business.

High LTV, IO BTL is dead. Banks have been keen to let people 'invest' in BTL providing the person stumps up a large cash deposit and has an OO as security. This is low risk for the bank, high risk for the LL. Without the leverage, the returns will be poor.

BTL looks high as percentage of new borrowing because the banks are loaing little for OO mortgages.

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I don't dislike BTL as an investment in the main. I just do not think the risks to rewards makes sense.

Equally, I have nothing against investing in equities but I would not invest in Quindell.

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I see no moral difference between people making money for nothing out of BTL over people making money for nothing from equity's or interest from savings accounts. It is all money for nothing off the backs of other people. But money for nothing is taxed less than earned income. This is where I have a problem.

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He's been pretty spot-on to be honest.

I'm not against the ethics of BTL, but if you've got a spare £50k, why wouldn't you stick it into BTL? Rentable return and capital appreciation. Your only money would be lucky to beat inflation in the bank.

All you need to do is the sums to see its not worth it. The kind of statement above has become a meme, people say it because they've heard other people say it. People have made good money from buy to let, thats undeniable, but only by holding property cheaply during an unprecedented bubble and selling to get the increase in value. Those days are gone. The yield is all thats left, and many are losing money, or making 50 quid a month or so by tying up 50k odd as their deposit. They hang in there expecting the price to increase. It doesn't, but while they wait it needs maintaining, agents need managing, bills come in, tenants move out.. its a pretty dumb thing to do.

Just do the sums, and include everything.

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He's been pretty spot-on to be honest.

I'm not against the ethics of BTL, but if you've got a spare £50k, why wouldn't you stick it into BTL? Rentable return and capital appreciation. Your only money would be lucky to beat inflation in the bank.

No chance of BTL being taxed, too many MPs playing the game.

What inflation? I would rather stick it in premium bonds than BTL, less hassle and your "Big Surprise" could be a million quid rather than a tenant blowing your flat up or something.

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I think the problem is that blaming BTL landlords is laying the blame at the wrong door and detracting from the real culprits.

If there were an abundance of properties then BTL wouldn't matter as without high demand and rampant HPI it would not hold the attraction that it currently does.

The real issue is that there are too many people and not enough homes and that is the fault of successive governments (mostly Labour).

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