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'equal' Opportunities In Football

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Think I have mentioned this before - but there is another 'study' out highlighting the 'appaling' lack of BEM (Black and ethnic minorities) in football coaching.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/29976832

Only 4% compared to 25% playing the game.

But if that's the case - then they are massively over represented in the playing circles (~12% of UK population is BEM) - so why no outrage from these 'equal' rights groups about the poor white footballers who aren't getting a fair shout due to their colour ?

Or are they just picking the stats that suit their own agendas ...surely not !!

Cake and eat it springs to mind.

Perhaps generally black folk are just a little better at playing the game and white folk at managing it ? Or are we not allowed to utter such groundbreaking and ridiculous things anymore.....

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Think I have mentioned this before - but there is another 'study' out highlighting the 'appaling' lack of BEM (Black and ethnic minorities) in football coaching.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/29976832

Only 4% compared to 25% playing the game.

But if that's the case - then they are massively over represented in the playing circles (~12% of UK population is BEM) - so why no outrage from these 'equal' rights groups about the poor white footballers who aren't getting a fair shout due to their colour ?

Or are they just picking the stats that suit their own agendas ...surely not !!

Cake and eat it springs to mind.

Perhaps generally black folk are just a little better at playing the game and white folk at managing it ? Or are we not allowed to utter such groundbreaking and ridiculous things anymore.....

That; imo. People stirring up things over stats. (For the record, I'm equal opps, all about giving positions to best qualified individual / applicant - no matter what their background).

And my core principle is that individuals make their own decisions - including those outbidding me for houses by 10s an 100s of thousands of pounds - their entitlement is not somehow superior to my own.

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The article says the average wage in Hungary is little more than £7000. If they mean gross national average, its probably about right. But someone working in a sandwich factory in rural Hungary, somewhere equivalent to Northampton, would be unlikely to earn more than about £5000 per year gross. So if a UK factory is paying £13520 a year, they will have the absolute pick of the best Hungarian workers. Some doctors in Hungary don't earn that much. Why should they bother trying to recruit Wayne and Waynetta Slobb from Northampton when they will get hard working, reliable,friendly, efficient, fluent English speaking staff in Hungary who will jump at the chance of such work. All these articles are based on two main points of ignorance: 1. people don't realise how absurdly generous the British benefits system is and 2. People don't realise how ludicrously low average wages are in Eastern Europe even for the highest calibre people.

Blacks are over-represented. Asians under represented. Given the amount of Scousers playing, Catholics probably over represented, Jews underepresented.

Football generally attracts working class types, of which Irish and Blacks are over represented. Management attracts middle class types, of which White brits and continental (non-eastern) transplants are over represented in.

Its not a huge mystery, is it? ...Unless you're a diversity agitator who looks at colour first and everything else last (if at all)

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Would be interesting to know what percentage of people completing their coaching badges are black or ethnic minorities. My guess would be close to 4% as well.

Its worth mentioning there has been an explosion in the black population in the last 10 years as well. Most of them are young. Most managers are older, most players younger. If anything it matches the demographic age profile. Wait 10,20,30 years and the black players of today will be in their 40s and 50s and filter through to management.

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Think I have mentioned this before - but there is another 'study' out highlighting the 'appaling' lack of BEM (Black and ethnic minorities) in football coaching.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/29976832

Only 4% compared to 25% playing the game.

But if that's the case - then they are massively over represented in the playing circles (~12% of UK population is BEM) - so why no outrage from these 'equal' rights groups about the poor white footballers who aren't getting a fair shout due to their colour ?

Or are they just picking the stats that suit their own agendas ...surely not !!

Cake and eat it springs to mind.

Perhaps generally black folk are just a little better at playing the game and white folk at managing it ? Or are we not allowed to utter such groundbreaking and ridiculous things anymore.....

well wouldn't it be nice if we had a bit more asian representation in that field?

they are seriously under-represented.

cricket has a far better spread of racial diverstiy in the england team.

we've got moain ali,the turbanator, etc etc.

why can't we have some middle-eatern/pakistani rugby players?

should set an example and be a good role model....fwiw if they have a problem with wearing a wonga sponsored shirt, i happen to agree that sportsmen do also play a societal role as "examples" for aspiring kids.....so no prancing around in shirts for bet365, carlsberg or rothmans is not a problem for me.

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The main problem with getting more 'Asians' into professional sport is many of their families hate the idea.

Its doctor or accountant* or get out the house is it not ....

*I know - massive generalistion !

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Would be interesting to know what percentage of people completing their coaching badges are black or ethnic minorities. My guess would be close to 4% as well.

Yes that sort of figure is pretty key to this entire thing. However strangely omitted from the story.

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Guest eight

Think I have mentioned this before - but there is another 'study' out highlighting the 'appaling' lack of BEM (Black and ethnic minorities) in football coaching.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/29976832

Only 4% compared to 25% playing the game.

But if that's the case - then they are massively over represented in the playing circles (~12% of UK population is BEM) - so why no outrage from these 'equal' rights groups about the poor white footballers who aren't getting a fair shout due to their colour ?

Or are they just picking the stats that suit their own agendas ...surely not !!

Cake and eat it springs to mind.

Perhaps generally black folk are just a little better at playing the game and white folk at managing it ? Or are we not allowed to utter such groundbreaking and ridiculous things anymore.....

The nationality mix of managers is pretty diverse though. Or is that an unsatisfactory sort of diversity?

Anyway, what's wrong with white dudes?

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The nationality mix of managers is pretty diverse though. Or is that an unsatisfactory sort of diversity?

Anyway, what's wrong with white dudes?

Clearly skin colour is the be all and end all for these campaigners !!

Although actually that's rather racist isn't it.....hmmmm

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People always say this but I am entirely not PC, however in this instance I think the whingers have a case.

Football clubs, especially in the lower leagues, are not like normal businesses. They are the personal possessions of very rich individuals who pay for the continued privilege of owning the clubs.

They make losses, they are inefficient. I am aware of a recent case in my club where the project manager of the stadium rebuild was appointed, despite no previous experience, because he is a drinking mate of the chief exec.

The selection processes are random and opaque (I actually applied for a finance job at one club, no reply so it had presumable gone to a mate) and you can see this is in managerial appointments (look at Leeds in the last few months ! - ha ha).

They are effectively run like local builidng firms (without the profits) where friends and family get the jobs. They are excluding outsiders, not based upon race but that is a by-product.

The required reform is not quotas but some robust (I don't like that word, overused) action from the FA to regulate job application and appointment processes at football clubs; because whilst I don't think it is deliberately racist that is the effect as it is excluding strangers. If that was in place I might have got my job!

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But if its not deliberately racist - then surely you agree it being raised as such is a nonsense ?

It is all about who you know in this business - up to a point anyway. Same as in a lot of industries. (Oil and gas being just about the worst)

99.9% of football fans and owners would be delighted with a coach/manager that brings success whether they be black, brown purple or ginger !!

Certain countries perhaps not of course - but not the UK - that's just bull IMO.

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But if its not deliberately racist - then surely you agree it being raised as such is a nonsense ?

It is all about who you know in this business - up to a point anyway. Same as in a lot of industries. (Oil and gas being just about the worst)

99.9% of football fans and owners would be delighted with a coach/manager that brings success whether they be black, brown purple or ginger !!

Certain countries perhaps not of course - but not the UK - that's just bull IMO.

It's no more racist than a fish and chip shop owner employing family and friends.

From an individual's point of view they have nowhere to go in the sport after a playing career and this disproportionately affects ethnic minorities so (by the widest definition) discriminatory.

It comes back to should all jobs be open to all people or are some allowed to be personal appointments.

In my hometown if I wanted to work in the post office I would have had to needed to have played for the local football club, and this was a national employer. If you want to work on the Tamar Ferry (owned by the Council) the guy there only employs ex-Royal Navy people. At my college the previous admissions tutor pretty much let in anybody who'd been to Eton.

There is a raft of these things at all levels. It's not racial discrimination, but it is discrimnation.

If you're on the right side of the fence, by which I don't mean white but in my examples played for the local football clubs, served in the RN or went to Eton, then you are really benefitting as you are getting this job / place over better candidates. But for everybody else it's hard luck.

Shoudl things be open to all? In theory yes, and for public-funded posts absolutely, but it not for small family firms.

And that's the problem with football clubs, high profile multi-million pound companies run like small family firms. Look at Karren Brady, made chief exec at Birmingham City at 23 because David Sullivan liked her. As it turns out she's done very well but no-one could convince me that a 23 year old with no experience of working in football was the outstanding candidate emerging from a rigorous selection procedure.

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So what's the solution ? Surely this is and has always happened ? And let's be honest - if you are on the right side of it you are not going to complain !!

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So what's the solution ? Surely this is and has always happened ? And let's be honest - if you are on the right side of it you are not going to complain !!

Any organisation above a certain turnover / employee number plus any publicly-funded organisation must demonstrate that it has an open and fair recruitment policy by following set procedures for recruitment that do not, without a reasonable basis for doing so, favour one group (however defined) above another.

Okay it's another raft of red tape but it should have an upside in preventing legal claims.

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The less red tape the better IMO.

Even if its put in place - people will work around it if they want.

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And that's the problem with football clubs, high profile multi-million pound companies run like small family firms. Look at Karren Brady, made chief exec at Birmingham City at 23 because David Sullivan liked her. As it turns out she's done very well but no-one could convince me that a 23 year old with no experience of working in football was the outstanding candidate emerging from a rigorous selection procedure.

"While in Sullivan's employ, Brady spotted an advert for the sale of Birmingham City F.C. in the Financial Times, when the club was in receivership,[22] and persuaded Sullivan to buy it and let her run it. Sullivan later commented that he agreed to the deal because such a young, female director would attract publicity to the club, and also because Brady was a "sacker"."

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It's no more racist than a fish and chip shop owner employing family and friends.

From an individual's point of view they have nowhere to go in the sport after a playing career and this disproportionately affects ethnic minorities so (by the widest definition) discriminatory.

It comes back to should all jobs be open to all people or are some allowed to be personal appointments.

In my hometown if I wanted to work in the post office I would have had to needed to have played for the local football club, and this was a national employer. If you want to work on the Tamar Ferry (owned by the Council) the guy there only employs ex-Royal Navy people. At my college the previous admissions tutor pretty much let in anybody who'd been to Eton.

There is a raft of these things at all levels. It's not racial discrimination, but it is discrimnation.

If you're on the right side of the fence, by which I don't mean white but in my examples played for the local football clubs, served in the RN or went to Eton, then you are really benefitting as you are getting this job / place over better candidates. But for everybody else it's hard luck.

Shoudl things be open to all? In theory yes, and for public-funded posts absolutely, but it not for small family firms.

And that's the problem with football clubs, high profile multi-million pound companies run like small family firms. Look at Karren Brady, made chief exec at Birmingham City at 23 because David Sullivan liked her. As it turns out she's done very well but no-one could convince me that a 23 year old with no experience of working in football was the outstanding candidate emerging from a rigorous selection procedure.

A lot of this sort of discrimination is just a case of people like to do business with and employ people who are like themselves. Just like your working class person is going to be overlooked in certain middle class circles it probably works the other way around if the graduate from Eton was applying for a job as bar staff in the local pub or chip shop they would probably be overlooked instead of a working class person who would be perceived to relate to the customers better. One example of this was in that Traders: Millions by the minute tv program where a footballer, might have been Leon Best gave those young traders from Birmingham trading from their parents attic a 6 figure sum to invest. The footballer obviously related to these guys better than he would some middle class financial adviser who turned up wearing a suit where as most people wouldn't touch an investment with those guys with a barge pole due to the way they were dressed and came across in unprofessional manner. I think football is one of the few jobs where a working class or ethnic minority can have a good well paid career in this country with pretty much no discrimination whatsoever.

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