Guest UK Debt Slave Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 English is the second language for most people across Europe whereas most people in the UK don't speak a second language How many British people speak Polish, Lithuanian Latvian, Romanian or Bulgarian It seems to me that the burden on the UK to accept people from across Europe when English is their second language is outrageously unfair Is that a fair conclusion? Dicuss...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubuntu Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Also having spoken to quite a few East Europeans they say the UK is a preferred destination because you can get jobs here despite having a very limited grasp of the English language whereas in Germany for example, employers expect you to speak the language to a decent standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corruption Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Arguably Russian is as much the 2nd language in those nations. Its unfair purely on the basis theyre pee poor and can undercut our wages, aswell as having access to education, medical and social security benefits there nations will probably never offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 (edited) Any evidence that the UK takes in more immigrants from central and eastern EU countries than similar countries (Germany, the Nordics, Benelux, Austria, France) or shall we just assume that's true and have a fact-free whingeing session? Here's a little thing I like to call "data": Edited November 8, 2014 by Dorkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Its never stopped anyone in the history of the world before. Brits are working all over the globe in far more culturally diverse areas than the EU. good job Queen Victoria didnt display such lack of ambition or adventure (depending on ones point of view) Many people will have either done this themselves or know loads of people who have done this all their working lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porca misèria Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Also having spoken to quite a few East Europeans they say the UK is a preferred destination because you can get jobs here despite having a very limited grasp of the English language whereas in Germany for example, employers expect you to speak the language to a decent standard. I didn't speak German to any decent standard when I got a job there. Didn't speak Italian at all when I first got a job in Italy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 (edited) The "Moving Millions" data sheet very likely underestimates the totals as it's presumably based on official statistics. So then the question arises how accurate is each country's data relative to each other. Considering how lax those running Britain have been to date in dealing with the issue (to start with they regularly said they didn't know how many were coming in each year) it's most likely top of the statistical laxity league and likely resulting in numbers nearer (and possibly even much higher than) Germany's rather than Spain's or France's. Edited November 8, 2014 by billybong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corruption Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Its never stopped anyone in the history of the world before. Brits are working all over the globe in far more culturally diverse areas than the EU. good job Queen Victoria didnt display such lack of ambition or adventure (depending on ones point of view) Many people will have either done this themselves or know loads of people who have done this all their working lives. Brits are working all over the world as they have skills that are needed and are working with visas. And most certainly do not undercut the locals wages. Why do lefty loonies struggle to comprehend this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble & Squeak Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Brits are working all over the world as they have skills that are needed and are working with visas. And most certainly do not undercut the locals wages. Why do lefty loonies struggle to comprehend this? you obviously haven't travelled much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Its unfair purely on the basis theyre pee poor and can undercut our wages If you're worried about immigrants from poorer countries undercutting UK wages I assume you're opposed to importing goods from poorer parts of the world like China/SE Asia/Latin America? Every container of goods made by people earning less than UK NMW that unloads at Felixstowe is undercutting UK wages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corruption Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 you obviously haven't travelled much being as i get paid to travel all over this planet id be fairly sure im much more travelled than yourself or anyone you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 being as i get paid to travel all over this planet id be fairly sure im much more travelled than yourself or anyone you know. So it's okay for you to sell your labour power in other people's countries but not okay for somebody else to do the same thing in your country? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corruption Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 If you're worried about immigrants from poorer countries undercutting UK wages I assume you're opposed to importing goods from poorer parts of the world like China/SE Asia/Latin America? Every container of goods made by people earning less than UK NMW that unloads at Felixstowe is undercutting UK wages. OK youve convinced me lets just let every single person on the planet free access to come in. I bet you live nowhere near these immigrants you so wish to be here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corruption Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 (edited) So it's okay for you to sell your labour power in other people's countries but not okay for somebody else to do the same thing in your country? I am skilled and they have to pay me more than a local especially when you add in flights and accommodation, and then after a few weeks there i leave. This is done on something called a temporary work visa. But youre thick and havent the brains to know what goes on outside your little Guardianista bubble. Seriously where have i said all immigration must be stopped, can you show me or is it just something your simple mind has come up with. I would certainly like to export lefty Guardian readers tomorrow, though i doubt any other nation has a use for such folk. Edited November 8, 2014 by Corruption Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 I bet you live nowhere near these immigrants you so wish to be here. I live in London! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 I am skilled and they have to pay me more than a local especially when you add in flights and accommodation, and then after a few weeks there i leave. This is done on something called a temporary work visa. So why is it okay for skilled people's wages to be undercut by economic migrants like you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corruption Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 I live in London! Please stay there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corruption Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 (edited) So why is it okay for skilled people's wages to be undercut by economic migrants like you? I've never undercut anyones wages in my entire life, i am very expensive. You clearly missed the bit where i said i get paid a lot more than locals especially when they pay for flights and accommodation. AND VISAS. Edited November 8, 2014 by Corruption Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbeth79 Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 London is the most exciting country in the world. The eastern europeans i have met love that you can buy indian, chinese, vietnamese food and in some of these restaurants you can eat for £5 monday to thursday. They love the mix and melting of cultures. London and the UK has a culture that promotes business so if you work and are lucky you can get rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 (edited) I've never undercut anyones wages in my entire life, i am very expensive. You clearly missed the bit where i said i get paid a lot more than locals especially when they pay for flights and accommodation. AND VISAS. So you're saying you're more expensive than the local equivalent? Why don't your employers hire them and save some cash? Or are you saying there is not one person with citizenship of these countries you visit all over the world who could do your job? Edited November 8, 2014 by Dorkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porca misèria Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 I live in London! How do you feel about Geordies or Scousers coming from their much poorer areas and taking your jobs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 How do you feel about Geordies or Scousers coming from their much poorer areas and taking your jobs? Fine by me, I wasn't born in London either and am an economic migrant within the UK. It's a competitive world. You are worth what you can convince somebody to pay you. If you want you can move location to find a better offer. The enemies of British unskilled workers are not their eastern European equivalents, it's Westminster politicians who have made their labour completely uncompetitive on price via excessive taxes and rents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble & Squeak Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 being as i get paid to travel all over this planet id be fairly sure im much more travelled than yourself or anyone you know. and you have never seen uk nationals doing unskilled work? or working illegally (therefore undercutting local waged via a tax dodge)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fed_Up Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 London is the most exciting country in the world. The eastern europeans i have met love that you can buy indian, chinese, vietnamese food and in some of these restaurants you can eat for £5 monday to thursday. They love the mix and melting of cultures. London and the UK has a culture that promotes business so if you work and are lucky you can get rich. Got to love the tired old "exotic food" argument! Why should it be about what foreigners want? It's not a holiday resort. Many of them are here to stay and the fabric of the place will be altered for good. You'd be hard pressed to find a native Briton who wants that. Just as I wouldn't want to see 50% Frenchmen when I visit the Taj Mahal, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Sadman Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 We are the Nicole Kidman of migrant destinations, so why do we act like a cheap whore and put out to any greasy feck who wants in? Migrants should enter some death match, or perhaps just give Brits twenty grand to get in...god knows they seem to be able to find the money to hand to the people smugglers somehow. No other nation outside of the euro/anglosphere wastes its desirability in this way, lowering its citizens to compete with foreigners. A nation is supposed to look out for itself and its citizens. http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2014/nov/07/north-koreans-working-state-sponsored-slaves-qatar http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/johann-hari/the-dark-side-of-dubai-1664368.html http://www.bdlive.co.za/africa/africannews/2013/06/11/malawi-offers-south-korea-100000-workers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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