Ritual Incantation - The Economic Gibberish Of The Keynesian Apparatchiks

[evetsm]

all you need to know about Keynes is he believed in meddling in the economy. What else is counter-cyclical policy, if not intervention?

If you believe meddlers of any stripe can allocate economic resources more effectively than the people active with their own money in the market, then i have a bridge to sell you.

That in a nutshell is the difference between Keynesian and Austrian economics. The former believes in meddling the latter believes in the market.

[Ah-so]

all you need to know about Keynes is he believed in meddling in the economy. What else is counter-cyclical policy, if not intervention?

If you believe meddlers of any stripe can allocate economic resources more effectively than the people active with their own money in the market, then i have a bridge to sell you.

That in a nutshell is the difference between Keynesian and Austrian economics. The former believes in meddling the latter believes in the market.

I suspect that you have revealed all that YOU know about Keynes. I do not need to come here to read childish over-simplifications and rebuttals of one of the greatest economists in history.

[Bloo Loo]

I suspect that you have revealed all that YOU know about Keynes. I do not need to come here to read childish over-simplifications and rebuttals of one of the greatest economists in history.

Krugman is the greatest economist of our times, Im told.

[evetsm]

I suspect that you have revealed all that YOU know about Keynes. I do not need to come here to read childish over-simplifications and rebuttals of one of the greatest economists in history.

i don't have to wade through the tripe of The General Theory to know a meddler. Once I realise he is a meddler, i close the book and throw it into the dustbin with all the other socialist economic meddlers.

I suspect you wouldn't know a politburo even when it issued a diktat.

[evetsm]

duplicate deleted

Edited November 25, 2014 by evetsm

[Ah-so]

i don't have to wade through the tripe of The General Theory to know a meddler. Once I realise he is a meddler, i close the book and throw it into the dustbin with all the other socialist economic meddlers.

I suspect you wouldn't know a politburo even when it issued a diktat.

I find your post rather tragic. Of course Keynes was not a socialist, even if he did approve of a bit of meddling.

Even his greatest (educated) critic appreciates the greater understanding of economics that he unveiled. We can disagree about manipulating demand but still appreciate his insights.

You are incapable or unwilling to do this. Someone who does not understand Keynes cannot have a serious conversation about economics. Sadly your opinions on economics are valueless to readers of HPC.

[Bloo Loo]

Would you pls remind what is MMT?

they are a school of thought that insists debt doesnt matter.

A quick google will get you an introduction like this:

http://www.economonitor.com/lrwray/2014/06/24/modern-money-theory-the-basics/

So here’s an attempt to put the fears of Krugman and Post Keynesians to rest. There is a symmetry between bank lending and government spending.

I also hope to help clarify things for a third group—the “debt-free money” folks who want Uncle Sam to spend “debt-free money”. Short answer: depending on how you look at it, he either already does, or cannot ever do so.

Here we go with the basics of MMT.

For the past four thousand years (“at least”, as John Maynard Keynes put it—see note at bottom), our monetary system has been a “state money system”. To simplify, that is one in which the state chooses the money of account, imposes obligations denominated in that money unit, and issues a currency accepted in payment of those obligations. While a variety of types of obligations have been imposed (tribute, tithes, fines, and fees), today taxes are the most important monetary obligations payable to the state in its own currency.

There is an approach that begins its analysis of money from this perspective, now called Modern Money Theory (MMT). It is based on the work of Keynes, but also on others such as A. Mitchell Innes, Georg F. Knapp, Abba Lerner, Hyman Minsky, Wynne Godley, and many others—stretching back to Adam Smith and before. It “stands on the shoulders of giants”, as Minsky put it.

Its research has stretched across the sub-disciplines of economics, including history of thought, economic history, monetary theory, unemployment and poverty, finance and financial institutions, sectoral balances, cycles and crises, and monetary and fiscal policy. It has largely updated and synthesized various strands of theory, most of it heterodox—outside the mainstream.

Lots of name dropping, they offer the solution for all the shortcomings of Keynes and Krugman.

Austrian Theory had all this wrapped up before Keynes was a protozoa.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Bloo Loo

[Bloo Loo]

If you say so, however from your comments on MMT I don't think you have done much reading on it.

I stopped when I read the nonsense about debt being irrelevant...their formulas are just plain wrong from a real World point of view.

They appear to start with the money as being the important part. You could do without the real world in MMT.

EDIT.

TO be fair, it seems the main proponents of the theory dont say the debt is irrelevant, and that hyperinflation is the obvious result of too much.

BUT, they do find their theory is taken on and abused by the monetary authorities as it provides an expert excuse for continuing and expanding deficit spending.

The theory also takes what is fairly obvious, in that their idea only works in certain conditions and excludes the actions of outside parties, like other trading partners This is obvious if you view the economy of money as a pool...clearly, adding more money to the pool will raise the level, while transfering parts between internal traders, nothing happens to the level.

A big key to their thinking is that Governments cant default...because they can print. Whilst this is obvious, Governments have defaulted by choice many times, and inflation is a form of long term default by exponential deceipt.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Bloo Loo

[Killer Bunny]

Thx