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Eu Immigrants Contribute £20Bn To Uk Economy


olde guto

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HOLA441
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HOLA442

fwiw i am anti all current politics, ukip included. i just wants thing they way they where when i was young. that the ruling classes at least approximately had the average persons interests at heart...as someone of my generation i cannot believe i wish to have someone like harold wilson in charge. at least he told lyndon johnson where to get off wrt vietnam, unlike bliar.

They're the last hope for something slightly different, if nothing else we will get a referendum thats been promised at every election in the last 17 years.

And despite Farage's privileged background he isn't part of the establishment and does have some common sense.

If he does get any form of power it'll cause uncertainty in the UK and the markets will go against us .... i hope.

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HOLA443

I take it you only read the bits that you agree with, again just in case you suddenly developed lefty blindness:

4.2.1. Overall immigrant population, 19952011

while those from non-EEA countries made a negative contribution of £118 billion

Page 25

Only £118 billion negative contribution, a drop in the ocean compared to the £4 billion from the EU :rolleyes:

Not at all - not read the report, not analysed the figures, not even followed all the references and media articles.

Simply responding to the post and agreeing - how curious this is page 2 not page 20 of the thread. Perhaps if the headline was "Britain loses £118B due to migration" then it would be.

Don't you think ?

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HOLA444

Wow, 10 hours since I first read about this, yet no mention here.

Unsurprisingly the right wing press didn't seem that interested in this news (it certainly didn't appear in the headlines) so it was left to the Russian's http://rt.com/uk/202455-eu-migrants-uk-20bn/ and the left wing press to inform people http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/05/eu-migrants-uk-gains-20bn-ucl-study

Migrants from new EU countries like Poland have contributed about £5bn http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29910497

However, the right wing media has tried it best to divert attention, by pointing to all (i.e. including non-EU) immigrants http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/531670/Immigration-taxpayer-Britain-118billion-17-years

Interesting analysis here of what's going on in the press http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2014/11/05/powerful-forces-try-to-rubbish-positive-immigration-report One thing in this article got me thinking, if these migrant workers don't actually stay in the UK for more than a year or two we get the benefit of educated workers (Poland beats UK in PISA) whose education we didn't pay for, and we don't pay for their care costs in later life as they leave before they get old and unwell. I'd go as far as to say only an anti-capitalist would argue this is a bad thing. :D

Oh and before someone starts about immigrants and housing costs, may I refer you to the graph on the frontpage, the biggest leaps in house prices were before Poland etc. joined the UK.

homepage.png

You have missed the simple fact that the figure is the turnover increase by the presence of more persons. It has nothing to do with the possible costs of their being here. If the size of the cake did not increase as a result of their presence then it would inevitably mean the slice of the GDP cake per person (real GDP) WOULD SHRINK. In fact the recently published figures from the ONS have demonstrated that the real GDP of this country has actually shrunk in recent years. Obviously that varies from person to person. There is no way in the world that a huge influx of often unskilled migrants on low wages can have assisted our economy. I would be here if I was them and lay no blame upon them trying to improve their lives. On a minimum wage - I will give you a real life example - A woman with 6 children (so her paperwork claims) all of whom live in Latvia, works in retail on £6.50 per hour, but her wages do not cover her costs. She claims housing benefit, child tax credits, tax credits (working 30 hrs per week) AND child benefit for six kids. That scenario is actual and according to my knowledge. This is the problem. Lovely though many of these folk are, they rarely make UK PLC a profit as such. They often send the money they make home and so it's not recirculating in our economy. That would take a long time. The biggest difficulty is there is a scarcity of housing, pressure on hospitals/GP's who are at breaking point and no more space without building over FarmLand. So your choice is to stop this or allow it and face the costs and consequences of continuing to add to what is already a highly populated country. Population of France per sq Km = 114, UK PER SQ KM= 255

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HOLA445
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HOLA446

They're the last hope for something slightly different, if nothing else we will get a referendum thats been promised at every election in the last 17 years.

And despite Farage's privileged background he isn't part of the establishment and does have some common sense.

If he does get any form of power it'll cause uncertainty in the UK and the markets will go against us .... i hope.

once they are elected we will get the same result, a bunch of people whose jobs rely on election by the punters and support from the wealthy, the latter do not care about the average person so what will change?

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HOLA447

if every immigrant makes that much extra per head, then i presume an extra 1bn in the uk would make us the wealthiest and happiest on earth - discuss...

If you read some of the comments below the story the report is thoroughly debunked. It is a survey and doesn't include things like housing benefits (which is the largest part of the benefits bill).

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HOLA448

The economic facts have long shown for anyone that wants to see that immigrants are a net fiscal benefit rather than a cost, and that immigration is a net positive for wages and economic growth. So, it doesn't take a genius to see that something else is at play here when it comes to people opposing immigration. If people are xenophobic and don't like being around large immigrant communities, it's rational for them to oppose immigration. Presumably such people range from out and out racists to people with (possibly mild) preference for interacting with others who share the same cultural norms as them. I really can't see what else can be at the root of opposition of immigration. After all if you are worried about more people in this country being a burden on public services etc. you should oppose indigenous child birth (above replacement rate, in any case). I suspect few kippers object to nice middle class white people having large families. :ph34r:

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HOLA449
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HOLA4410

The economic facts have long shown for anyone that wants to see that immigrants are a net fiscal benefit rather than a cost, and that immigration is a net positive for wages and economic growth. So, it doesn't take a genius to see that something else is at play here when it comes to people opposing immigration. If people are xenophobic and don't like being around large immigrant communities, it's rational for them to oppose immigration. Presumably such people range from out and out racists to people with (possibly mild) preference for interacting with others who share the same cultural norms as them. I really can't see what else can be at the root of opposition of immigration. After all if you are worried about more people in this country being a burden on public services etc. you should oppose indigenous child birth (above replacement rate, in any case). I suspect few kippers object to nice middle class white people having large families. :ph34r:[/size] [/size]

Out of idle curiosity at what point would you regard this island full?

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HOLA4415
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HOLA4416

Out of idle curiosity at what point would you regard this island full?

I'll try to answer this. I always thought a country was full when it was incapable of being self-sufficient if it needed to be.

Didn't we pass that point at 40 mil?

Some people seem to think we can continue to increase the population ad infinitum, and if you oppose it, they play the bigotry card.

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HOLA4417

This report is just naked propaganda.

Surely this crap is actually counter productive when it can so easily be dismantled and shown to be absolute rubbish? It's not easy to tell who's pro or anti mass uncontrolled economic migration any more. As far as I can tell the politicians, medja and 'establishment' want it, most of the population don't.

Was this 'report' put out by the pro side? as it seems to undermine their case rather than strengthen it - whatever, it's all just lies and statistics anyway.

If you exclude this and only include part of that, and guess a bit, then multiply it by an estimate and then turn it upside down and sqint it PROVES stuff *

* for a few carefully selected dates.

I don't think this is going to convince many voters in Rochester to change their minds.

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HOLA4418

From the OP's RT link


Prime Minister David Cameron is increasingly under pressure due to the growing popularity of the anti-EU United Kingdom Independence Party (UKIP). Cameron has therefore pledged to curb EU immigration if he wins next May's general election before holding an in/out EU referendum in 2017.

He "promised" that before the May 2010 general election.

Now 5 years on he's "pledging" it's going to happen after the next election.

Edited by billybong
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HOLA4419

Note that when Britain had full employment more or less there were practically no restrctions on immigration. Almost with mathematical determinism, the more government has `cracked down` on immigration the the higher unemployment has gone. Note as well that countries nowadays that are booming rely heavily on immigration, and Britain has very low immigration rates, comparatively. Remember in the 19th century, when Britain went from a 2nd rate to the major industrial power on the planet, there were no immigration restrictions at all.

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HOLA4420

I guess individuals do not like change, even when that change is net positive. Sometimes people don't want to swallow the bitter pill, and I doubt there is much sugar coating we can do to make it taste better, even if it is the essential medicine to protect our future.

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HOLA4421

Note that when Britain had full employment more or less there were practically no restrctions on immigration. Almost with mathematical determinism, the more government has `cracked down` on immigration the the higher unemployment has gone. Note as well that countries nowadays that are booming rely heavily on immigration, and Britain has very low immigration rates, comparatively. Remember in the 19th century, when Britain went from a 2nd rate to the major industrial power on the planet, there were no immigration restrictions at all.

Total bull again.

The country that is growing is China. Pretty much everywhere else is playing more debt and importing bodies to fudge the figures. Using cheap labour to prevent a toal wipeout of their manufacturing sector against the bubbles that the debt and asset policies promote.

China dos not rely on inward immigration.

Some of the oil states use slaves, but in no way are those welcome to stay any longer than they can be used.

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HOLA4422

The government will count this as higher economic spin and gdp. Well they've included prostitution and drugs too - a lot of that now being carried out by organised imported gangs and growing.

How else is our country goingto be enriched?

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/363539/Car-crash-turf-war-as-Baltic-gangs-scam-insurance-firms Car crash 'turf war' as Baltic gangs scam insurance firms

EASTERN European gangs are offering a no-win, no-fee service as they fleece insurance firms with car crash claims.

One crook “Tariq” told us how Asian gangs in Bradford were now feeling the squeeze from the better-organised Eastern European migrants who set up complicated crashes when approached by drivers looking to make money.

Edited by onlyme2
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HOLA4423

More economic spin we need some more then!

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/crime-europol-gangs-adams-family-cartel-delta-441511 Britain is Organised Crime Capital of Europe, Says Europol


Europol director Rob Wainwright, centre, said an estimated 3,000 large organised crime gangs were operating across Europe.

Thirty-six people have been arrested and 45 premises searched as part of an investigation into criminal gangs smuggling people into Britain from the Middle East.

The year-long operation was co-ordinated by Europol, and spanned inquiries in Turkey, Greece, France, Belgium and the UK.

The investigation is one of 600 currently being pursued by Europol, half of which have links to Britain.

In a report to be published later his month, the EU law enforcement agency will reveal the existence of an estimated 3,000 large organised crime groups across the continent. That would mean around 1,500 gangs are currently targeting the UK, making it in line to become the crime capital of Europe.

"We have some groups with 60 different nationalities among their members," said Europol director Rob Wainwright. "This is the modern business of organised crime - for the first time, we have tried to put a number on that."

Britain and Germany were the countries with the most "high-priority cases requiring in-depth Europol analysis", said Europol. "That tells you something about the extent to which the UK is significantly affected by organised crime in Europe," said Wainwright.

Edited by onlyme2
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HOLA4424

Wow, 10 hours since I first read about this, yet no mention here.

Unsurprisingly the right wing press didn't seem that interested in this news (it certainly didn't appear in the headlines) so it was left to the Russian's http://rt.com/uk/202455-eu-migrants-uk-20bn/ and the left wing press to inform people http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/05/eu-migrants-uk-gains-20bn-ucl-study

Migrants from new EU countries like Poland have contributed about £5bn http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29910497

However, the right wing media has tried it best to divert attention, by pointing to all (i.e. including non-EU) immigrants http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/531670/Immigration-taxpayer-Britain-118billion-17-years

Interesting analysis here of what's going on in the press http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2014/11/05/powerful-forces-try-to-rubbish-positive-immigration-report One thing in this article got me thinking, if these migrant workers don't actually stay in the UK for more than a year or two we get the benefit of educated workers (Poland beats UK in PISA) whose education we didn't pay for, and we don't pay for their care costs in later life as they leave before they get old and unwell. I'd go as far as to say only an anti-capitalist would argue this is a bad thing. :D

Oh and before someone starts about immigrants and housing costs, may I refer you to the graph on the frontpage, the biggest leaps in house prices were before Poland etc. joined the UK.

homepage.png

Dig a little deeper and you find the author of the report is Christian Dustmann. This is more left wing propaganda.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2822825/Expert-migrant-report-man-said-just-13-000-come-Eastern-Europe.html

http://www.snouts-in-the-trough.com/archives/11227

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HOLA4425

This report is just naked propaganda.

Surely this crap is actually counter productive when it can so easily be dismantled and shown to be absolute rubbish? It's not easy to tell who's pro or anti mass uncontrolled economic migration any more. As far as I can tell the politicians, medja and 'establishment' want it, most of the population don't.

Was this 'report' put out by the pro side? as it seems to undermine their case rather than strengthen it - whatever, it's all just lies and statistics anyway.

If you exclude this and only include part of that, and guess a bit, then multiply it by an estimate and then turn it upside down and sqint it PROVES stuff *

* for a few carefully selected dates.

I don't think this is going to convince many voters in Rochester to change their minds.

Your bull$hit radar is functioning perfectly.

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