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Nosey Doctors


Riedquat

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High house prices.

That certainly does. Unfortunately some of the things needed to deal with it, like building more (not that I think that's the main reason but it certainly contributes) do too. Just because we've got into a position where something is necessary doesn't mean that I'll like it. Most of the stuff built in the last century I'd be much happier off without to be honest. It's why I grumble about population quite often.

This is rather too on-topic for off-topic isn't it?

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The crap that gets me down will still be here when I get back. Most people (including most of HPC, since "more building" is part of it) want it, so it isn't going away.

I hate the idea of an ever more densely populated nation too. Having had a rural upbringing the idea of living on an island of mega-cities surrounded by small patches of over utilised green bits isn't really my idea of paradise.. I worry about it for my kids as well.

It doesn't get me depressed anymore because I have resigned myself to the fact that there's really nothing you or I can do about it. There is always the hope that global population may eventually peak and drop back and then (perhaps for a while at least) civilisation might mature enough that we can have the best of all worlds.. High tech, high productivity and more space per human.

It will all play out long after I'm gone though. I just put it out of my mind and try to concentrate on other things that I can have an effect on.

If you're anything like me you'd probably do well to focus on your own happiness for a bit and sod everyone else.. You can't carry the weight of the world by yourself.

You need to find ways to cope.. Like using the Mexican health service because it isn't sh1t and they don't insist on nannying you and asking you for stupid information if you don't want to give it ;)

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That's pretty much what people are telling me I should do but to me it seems tantamount to accepting that it's OK and not a problem. I think I'd be fine if it showed signs of reversal, so although I'd never see the world as I'd like it at least I could take comfort in knowing that things were improving, but there seems to be a steady stream of worsening, not improving. Doesn't help that we've managed to come up with plenty of ways of building things that are ugly - and worse. Ugly can have character. There's Victorian stuff like that. Far too much modern is worse - it's completely and utterly souless.

It doesn't even have to be mega-cities. The people who go on about "only x% is built on" are right in their way. There's no real danger of the amount becoming mostly urban, but there is a massive difference between having the nearest places small towns or having several large cities not too far away, even if the immediate surroundings are the same. Rural Cumbria (ignoring the bits like the Lakes) is massively different from rural Buckinghamshire.

I'd also desperately love it if everyone slowed down too, so I can't help get annoyed at people sounding keen for things like high speed rail.

I can look back at pictures, descriptions, sometimes film of the past and see the complete and utter tragedy in what's been lost yet I feel like I'm surrounded by people who quite honestly don't seem to give a sh1t. I can also see in the past lots of stuff that thank heavens we've managed to do away with - too many crappy living conditions (even compared to modern rabbit hutch houses, at least they've got an indoor flushing toilet), choking smoke-filled towns, rivers turned in to sewers and so on. At some point the losses started outweighing the gains, and that's accelerating. Too many changes for the worse even within my lifetime (ah, the naive days when I looked forward to the future). A track in the Lakes I used to walk along quite a lot when I was a kid, now a neat well-made path, too much of that sort of thing too - subtle but cumulative, even when done with good intentions (perhaps it was wheelchair access) the feel of it, what made it special, what made it contribute to making life worth living, has been damaged.

And far, far too much organising, the stifling, constraining, monitored, recorded, unspontaneous horror that forms modern society. I didn't expect any improvements on the development front but did have a slight hope that a Conservative government might do a little about that.

Congratulations on your patience, anyone who didn't give up reading all of that after the first sentence or two.

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Because they'll just use it to nag about things like weight. I know I need to lose some weight, I don't need nagging about it.

Because it's none of their fvcking business to check anything unless I ask them to or have good reason to suspect it might be relevent to something else I want sorting out. It's another symptom of nosey, interfering nannying crap that I'm completely sick of. It's not paranoia. I'm not worried about it revealing anything I don't want to know about, or being misused. I just completely and utterly despise that attitude that would think about insisting on it in the first place. I'm not being checked for becoming an astronaut or deep sea diver when it's necessary to ensure that my health is up to it.

You could object to them asking your name, address or age on the same basis.

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I can understand how such things add up

Being depressed can't be any fun

If things out of your control make you depressed, is there something you can do to change your reaction to such things?

There is no benefit to being ill as a result of such things

easier said than done i know, but fighting the system is easier if you are fit in both body and mind

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GP's get performance pay for measuring basics like bp, weight etc of their patients. I wouldn't take it personally - they just want the money.

Mind you the government has started paying a £55 "bonus" for every new diagnosis of dementia, so watch out if your GP keeps asking you what year it is, and who's the current PM!

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Go very carefully talking to doctors about depression. Sometimes the medical system can help but sometimes it seriously makes things worse.

agreed,and it's one of those slightly "grey" areas that mostGP's, thinking in purely mechanical terms about the human body,can't recognise.

most people going to the doctors about depression are basically just fed up and want a bit of a moan.

a real depressive can't see it,until it becomes a danger to themselves.

and people cope with it in different ways, depending on their psyche.

some wear their heart on their sleeve and just ball the place out crying...they are the easy ones to treat...give them an hour or two a week with a CBT therapist and they will tell you their whole life story.

others just withdraw from social contact,even with friends and family..these ones are harder as they don't give away anything is seriously wrong until the brown stuff hits the fan

the usual suspects like alcohol/drugs(even sex-in the early stages..but depressives for the most part go off sex) are used as escape mechanisms, they arent necessarily the trigger

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That's pretty much what people are telling me I should do but to me it seems tantamount to accepting that it's OK and not a problem. I think I'd be fine if it showed signs of reversal, so although I'd never see the world as I'd like it at least I could take comfort in knowing that things were improving, but there seems to be a steady stream of worsening, not improving. Doesn't help that we've managed to come up with plenty of ways of building things that are ugly - and worse. Ugly can have character. There's Victorian stuff like that. Far too much modern is worse - it's completely and utterly souless.

It doesn't even have to be mega-cities. The people who go on about "only x% is built on" are right in their way. There's no real danger of the amount becoming mostly urban, but there is a massive difference between having the nearest places small towns or having several large cities not too far away, even if the immediate surroundings are the same. Rural Cumbria (ignoring the bits like the Lakes) is massively different from rural Buckinghamshire.

I'd also desperately love it if everyone slowed down too, so I can't help get annoyed at people sounding keen for things like high speed rail.

I can look back at pictures, descriptions, sometimes film of the past and see the complete and utter tragedy in what's been lost yet I feel like I'm surrounded by people who quite honestly don't seem to give a sh1t. I can also see in the past lots of stuff that thank heavens we've managed to do away with - too many crappy living conditions (even compared to modern rabbit hutch houses, at least they've got an indoor flushing toilet), choking smoke-filled towns, rivers turned in to sewers and so on. At some point the losses started outweighing the gains, and that's accelerating. Too many changes for the worse even within my lifetime (ah, the naive days when I looked forward to the future). A track in the Lakes I used to walk along quite a lot when I was a kid, now a neat well-made path, too much of that sort of thing too - subtle but cumulative, even when done with good intentions (perhaps it was wheelchair access) the feel of it, what made it special, what made it contribute to making life worth living, has been damaged.

And far, far too much organising, the stifling, constraining, monitored, recorded, unspontaneous horror that forms modern society. I didn't expect any improvements on the development front but did have a slight hope that a Conservative government might do a little about that.

Congratulations on your patience, anyone who didn't give up reading all of that after the first sentence or two.

I can relate to feeling low about the state of the world, uk, immediate surroundings etc. This really troubled me for a few years on a daily basis. Nowadays I accept that the world is as it is and my view is that things will only change when it is forced by disasters of some sort. Libspero's suggestion to focus on yourself more is a good one. I decided that I couldn't change the state of the world but I could learn to accept things as they are and make the best of it.

My area is fairly rural but, at times, I'd like to locate to North West Scotland where the modern world isn't so obvious. I get out a lot walking in the beautiful countryside and coast in my region where it's not overpopulated and fairly quiet. If I can I help others. I listen to music I love, grow veg and read/watch stuff that interests me.

Regarding doctors, I agree that they shouldn't insist on anything....but they do sometimes. If you register you can perhaps decide to endure the measurements/tests/lecture then go home and ignore any advice or medication recommendations.

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Surely it's a case of who takes responsibility for your health. Most people seem to be happy for the NHS to take responsibility for their health and submit willingly to any treatment or request from an authority figure.

A minority, me included, want to take full responsibility for their own health and only go to a doctor when necessary and do not take kindly to being told what is going to happen. If I visit a doctor it is for a professional diagnosis and advice on appropriate treatments for that particular ailment, I will then decide how to proceed.

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Surely it's a case of who takes responsibility for your health. Most people seem to be happy for the NHS to take responsibility for their health and submit willingly to any treatment or request from an authority figure.

A minority, me included, want to take full responsibility for their own health and only go to a doctor when necessary and do not take kindly to being told what is going to happen. If I visit a doctor it is for a professional diagnosis and advice on appropriate treatments for that particular ailment, I will then decide how to proceed.

exactly.

ultimately it is MY responsibility to look after myself.

but I don't expect other groups of people trying to deliberately make my life as difficult as possible...all for my own good of course.

what was it C S lewis wrote about moral busibodies?

FWIW i don't have a problem with a national health service, but hey need to take their own advice.

1) it is a NATIONAL health service, not an international health service

2) as an organisation, it suffers from chronic obesity...time to slim down...or you'll be for an early grave.

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Surely it's a case of who takes responsibility for your health. Most people seem to be happy for the NHS to take responsibility for their health and submit willingly to any treatment or request from an authority figure.

A minority, me included, want to take full responsibility for their own health and only go to a doctor when necessary and do not take kindly to being told what is going to happen. If I visit a doctor it is for a professional diagnosis and advice on appropriate treatments for that particular ailment, I will then decide how to proceed.

Makes sense. I'm mostly going just to get people off my back about it and to let me tick the right boxes at work so it doesn't just go down as me being lazy.

I'd seriously consider clearing off to some decent bit of Scotland but I've not worked out how to make a living there, particularly in a fairly remote part (a common enough issue which is why all too many rural communities struggle and end up as mostly retirement, tourist, or dormitory towns and villages - small and local has simply been totally out-competed by large and central).

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I hate the idea of an ever more densely populated nation too. Having had a rural upbringing the idea of living on an island of mega-cities surrounded by small patches of over utilised green bits isn't really my idea of paradise.. I worry about it for my kids as well.

It doesn't get me depressed anymore because I have resigned myself to the fact that there's really nothing you or I can do about it. There is always the hope that global population may eventually peak and drop back and then (perhaps for a while at least) civilisation might mature enough that we can have the best of all worlds.. High tech, high productivity and more space per human.

It will all play out long after I'm gone though. I just put it out of my mind and try to concentrate on other things that I can have an effect on.

If you're anything like me you'd probably do well to focus on your own happiness for a bit and sod everyone else.. You can't carry the weight of the world by yourself.

You need to find ways to cope.. Like using the Mexican health service because it isn't sh1t and they don't insist on nannying you and asking you for stupid information if you don't want to give it ;)

just sitting back and saying ho-hum, nothing I can do, let my kids deal with it is not really an option now is it?.

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Mess with them by wearing a lead belt under your clothing.

Weird, I was playing with a bag of very fine lead shot (it's for adding weight to model railway vehicles before you start to wonder) when you said that.

A big helium balloon up the jumper would be great if it made enough difference - look huge, weigh little :)

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just sitting back and saying ho-hum, nothing I can do, let my kids deal with it is not really an option now is it?.

Doesn't seem to to me but the overall problem is too big. Managing to not get too bothered about it feels like abandoning my morals, a choice between that and being miserable isn't a wonderful one. People say "do something about it", as if that achieves anything other than to attract a bunch of tree huggers unless you're already one of the elite.

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Makes sense. I'm mostly going just to get people off my back about it and to let me tick the right boxes at work so it doesn't just go down as me being lazy.

I'd seriously consider clearing off to some decent bit of Scotland but I've not worked out how to make a living there, particularly in a fairly remote part (a common enough issue which is why all too many rural communities struggle and end up as mostly retirement, tourist, or dormitory towns and villages - small and local has simply been totally out-competed by large and central).

Of course, the downside of taking full responsibility for your own health and only seeking advice when you have symptoms is that the NHS system may pick up something in their routine checks that is easily treatable and by the time you notice anything wrong it's too late. You pays your money and takes your choice.

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Makes sense. I'm mostly going just to get people off my back about it and to let me tick the right boxes at work so it doesn't just go down as me being lazy.

I'd seriously consider clearing off to some decent bit of Scotland but I've not worked out how to make a living there, particularly in a fairly remote part (a common enough issue which is why all too many rural communities struggle and end up as mostly retirement, tourist, or dormitory towns and villages - small and local has simply been totally out-competed by large and central).

Yes, it's a pain but if you just play the game and get the boxes ticked at the doctors then you can get back to thinking how you can take steps to work towards improving/getting your life the way you want it.

NHS workers generally don't have insight into the reality that many people get down/depressed about their lives because of the state of things in general with high living costs and the lack of meaningful and decent paying jobs which leads to discontented lives. GP's just want to meet their targets so ultimetly it's best, in my opinion, to do your own research and look after one's own health.

Remote areas are beautiful and attractive to many people but, as you say, the difficulty is making money to live off!

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just sitting back and saying ho-hum, nothing I can do, let my kids deal with it is not really an option now is it?.

The vast majority of people don't see that it's a problem. Most people don't even think about it as far as I know. My ability to influence it is nil, so putting it right at the bottom of my "things to worry about" list probably is the best option.

I have a lot of other distractions at the moment so not hard to do (work/family/changes/challenges).. All stop me dwelling on more philosophical concerns.

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Remote areas are beautiful and attractive to many people but, as you say, the difficulty is making money to live off!

And the opposite is easier although many people don't really like it (although "indifferent" might describe it better for a lot) yet we just keep going for the easy option instead of trying to work out the better one. Maybe we can't figure out a better way but I don't see much sign of anyone trying (at least anyone who can make a significant difference).

Anyway find a nice place and some of the people already living there are often trying to screw it up, flogging off land for more houses or wind turbines or whatever. I've no illusions about the nature of trying to make a living in such places but does it have to come at the expense of degrading those places that make life worth living? It always seems to boil down to either good location but life is too hard or easy enough life but the place is too awful. More and more have shifted to the latter over time (and the huge irresponsibility of population increase has made it rather impossible not to anyway), and sure, it's better than spending all day knee deep in mud in order to freeze at night for half a mouldy parsnip but come on, make a bit of effort in trying to find the best of both worlds! One thing's for certain, treating economic factors and ease and convenience as the only ones that matter is taking us away from the ideal, not towards it. It was a good enough tool once, it's not any more (although we certainly can't through it away altogether and try for some communist nonsense).

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The vast majority of people don't see that it's a problem. Most people don't even think about it as far as I know.

So it seems. I can't grasp how they can't mind you, net result is that I've no faith in people.

Have to say cheers for your forebearance everyone. Getting it off the chest helps a bit, signs that there are people who agree with some of it gives a bit of hope that it'll work out some day, even if not in my lifetime, and I think that that's what I need.

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If you would seriously consider a move there must be quite a few industries located in remote areas. Maybe fishing, nuclear power stations, schools..

If you really wanted to relocate I'm sure you could find a way. Convincing any family could be a different matter of course!

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So it seems. I can't grasp how they can't mind you, net result is that I've no faith in people.

Have to say cheers for your forebearance everyone. Getting it off the chest helps a bit, signs that there are people who agree with some of it gives a bit of hope that it'll work out some day, even if not in my lifetime, and I think that that's what I need.

I'm glad the forum has helped a bit.

My view is that unless people are forced to think a bit deeper about the state of the world then mostly they will not. Lots of people are caught up in their career, image, internet, obsessions, hedonistic idiosyncratic world views etc. I can't relate to them but that's just how it is and I also suspect that lots of people aren't content with life.

I've been forced to think deeper about the world I live in and would like it to be a better place for all but there's nothing I can do about how the world is. I do recognise though that my own world view is idiosyncratic! Best overall, IMO, to avoid people that we can't relate to as much as possible even if that means spending a lot of time alone.

Despite having being invited, I don't go to doctors for smear tests, mammograms, flu jabs or general health checks nor do I return bowel tests. My choice is to walk, eat the least processed food available and stay away from doctors as much as possible. I do think it's useful in life to at least be registered with a doctor though.

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